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Post by brutalis on Jun 10, 2019 7:39:16 GMT -5
Dark Phoenix as the send off for Fox's X-Men comes out a sad last ditch effort, and a mere shadow of what it could and should be. Problem Numero Uno: how are you supposed to care about Jean and Cyclops when their story has yet to been told/grow in the New Class movies and there is almost nothing in this movie to make you care for either of them? Dark Phoenix takes far too many short cuts in story and characterization, simply relying on the fact that mostly X-fanatics are going to see the movie. Presuming that everyone already knows the idea and characters already. There is very little connection between any of the characters and their actions. There are snippets of nods that are "feel right" moments but nothing is really done with them. The growth of Jean into Dark Phoenix carries very little emotional impact other than shock value. They tried but failed as this feels like a poorly written comic from the 80's with some wild and wonky art that you read and go meh, and move on to another comic book, so perhaps it is closer to the "real" X-Men we all know in the comics?!?
Wait for the DVD/Bluray...
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Post by Icctrombone on Jun 10, 2019 7:49:51 GMT -5
On the other hand, the original Incarnation of the X-men franchise DID flesh out and develop Jean. X-men last stand has been savaged on this forum but I thought it to be a 7/10.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jun 10, 2019 11:51:21 GMT -5
Dark Phoenix has the twin distinction of being the worst reviewed X-film and also having the lowest opening weekend. I didn't see the last movie, Age of Acrockofshit. At this point I see no reason to believe I'll see this one. I'm not pre-judging it. I just don't care.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jun 10, 2019 12:29:03 GMT -5
My only hope for this film is that everyone was so savage on Age of Apocalypse, and I just don't see it. It did a lot wrong, but it also did a hell of a lot right. So maybe I'll like Dark Phoenix just as much if it's the same fans and critics hating on it. |
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Post by brutalis on Jun 10, 2019 13:16:28 GMT -5
My only hope for this film is that everyone was so savage on Age of Apocalypse, and I just don't see it. It did a lot wrong, but it also did a hell of a lot right. So maybe I'll like Dark Phoenix just as much if it's the same fans and critics hating on it. As you like the X-verse movies Shax i don't doubt you will like Dark Phoenix as well. i didn't hate it, just felt that it took too many short cuts and lacked much emotional investment or reward. Nothing terrible in it, just feels more like a movie of the week with a larger budget than a "summer" movie franchise. I could go in to more specifics but prefer to not spoiling the experience for those who do want to see it. It is far better than Last Stand IMO. |
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Post by rberman on Jun 10, 2019 13:24:41 GMT -5
Sitting this one out. The last X-Men film I saw was "First Class" and it was decent enough. Thought about seeing Days of Future Past but never got around to it, and passed on Apocalypse because the reviews were so bad for it. I saw all the movies you mentioned on the small screen via DVD or streaming and I enjoyed them up until AoA. Go check out Days, it's worth it. Count me among the "Days of Future Past" enthusiast as well. Better than First Class or Apocalypse. It managed to justify the presence of Mystique and Magneto without sacrificing the spirit of the narrative. Plus "This issue: Everybody dies!" done faithfully. IMHO the plot points that Dark Phoenix needs to hit to succeed: - Jean and Scott have a loving relationship; the audience is rooting for them to be together. - Jean gets an unexpected upgrade of power by several orders of magnitude. She and Scott work through the tension this brings to their relationship. - Jean falls into temptation, loses her head, and commits an unforgivable large-scale massacre. (probably best to keep D'Bari out of it) - The X-Men subdue Jean and lock her away from her extra power. - Some authority figure (probably not the Shi'ar unless previous films have established them already) come to exact justice on Jean, and the X-Men choose to defend her from that authority. - The defense of Jean leads to her unlocking her extra power, but without proper restraint, and she participates in her own demise. Some of this, especially the Jean/Scott romance, requires proper set-up in a previous movie. They need to go through some tough times together and come out on top so that we're vested in their relationship. Certainly not like in the original Jackman-heavy trilogy, in which viewers are constantly invited to root for Jean to get together with Logan. And the soft reboot trilogy didn't do much more to put Jean and Scott together, so there's no foundation upon which Dark Phoenix can build. |
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Post by hondobrode on Jun 11, 2019 12:24:07 GMT -5
I actually saw it Friday and was shocked at how well it stood up.
The biggest difference was the main villain and companions being previously unknown characters or in some cases barely known characters, but, they worked and I understood how they fit in.
Honestly, I was impressed and it was far, far better than Last Stand, which was truly horrible.
My taste skews towards First Class which was pretty darned good IMO, and Logan, practically perfect, and this.
I haven't been an X-Men fan for about 30 years now, but this was really good I thought and don't understand why it's catching nearly the flack that it is.
Like my g/f said, now that it's going over to Disney, it's not going to be as cutting edge. Probably true, but Sony and Valiant will have Harbinger on the screen after Bloodshot ...
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 13, 2019 22:25:08 GMT -5
I liked First Class; but, thought Days was okay, not spectacular. The Quicksilver scene was fun; but, a lot of it just had me mildly interested. I do have to say the period detail in these films is laughable, if you lived through the time periods; but that seems to be a lot of Hollywood, anymore. First Class at least felt like the 60s, even if it didn't really look like it.
The Sentinels were a major disappointment, for me, in Days, from a design and a use standpoint. I like parts of that; but there are whole chunks I thought didn't work.
Haven't seen Age of Apocalypse of the new one. Might watch it out of curiosity; but, not exactly rushing to do that; certainly not paying for it.
If and when Marve;/Disney reboots the whole thing, I want at least one film to be a Dave Cockrum swashbuckling space fest, with Lilandra and the Shi'ar. Bug-eyed ships and Starjammers. Just one. After that, you can do a Gambit love fest or recycle the same plot line for 12 films, just like Claremont did in the comics. Give me that one and I'll be happy.
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Post by sunofdarkchild on Jun 14, 2019 3:19:17 GMT -5
First Class is by far my favorite X-Men movie.
Days of Future Past I find to be overrated. It's some of the worst time travel I've seen in movies. Quicksilver was fun but so hax he made the whole rest of the movie unnecessary. Even then I thought the jumping forward a decade and throwing out the characters and ending of the previous movie was stupid and unnecessary.
Apocalypse was a mess. The hero-worship of Mystique was just stupid. The villain was surprisingly lame. Cyclops and Jean in general bring down these movies with how boring they are no matter which actors play them. The only thing I really liked was Magneto's plot.
I'm both excited and really worried about New Mutants. On the one hand those are my favorite characters. On the other the movie has gone through a lot of the same development hell as Dark Phoenix.
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Post by spoon on Jun 26, 2019 19:16:04 GMT -5
My only hope for this film is that everyone was so savage on Age of Apocalypse, and I just don't see it. It did a lot wrong, but it also did a hell of a lot right. So maybe I'll like Dark Phoenix just as much if it's the same fans and critics hating on it. As you like the X-verse movies Shax i don't doubt you will like Dark Phoenix as well. i didn't hate it, just felt that it took too many short cuts and lacked much emotional investment or reward. Nothing terrible in it, just feels more like a movie of the week with a larger budget than a "summer" movie franchise. I could go in to more specifics but prefer to not spoiling the experience for those who do want to see it. It is far better than Last Stand IMO. I saw Dark Phoenix last night and this about sums it up for me. The movie isn't so much actively bad (although there's a good bit of the dialogue that feels simplistic or weak), as much as it's limited. It doesn't feel ambitious. For instance, I don't think there are special effects that are done poorly, but that may be because it doesn't aim high as it could in its action sequences. It feels very short. It's just a few minutes short of 2 hours, but the other recent X-Men films have been significantly longer, and taking on an epic storyline in less than 2 hours feels like a huge short cut. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jun 26, 2019 19:53:08 GMT -5
Seeing it this weekend, so long as it remains in theaters. A lot of places have already stopped showing it.
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Post by BigPapaJoe on Jun 28, 2019 5:27:18 GMT -5
Trying to do the Phoenix story in a single two hour endeavor just isn't plausible. Watering it down to Jean trippin out emotionally just doesn't make for the crux of a good story. Hopefully, years from now when Marvel Studios does it, at least two films, maybe three, are dedicated to exploring the narrative that was more faithful to the comics. I want the Hellfire Club, Lilandra, and the Shi'ar Imperial Guard involved.
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Post by hondobrode on Jun 29, 2019 14:55:49 GMT -5
That's true !
I would like those details as well, cause duh !, they would translate so well.
Build up the story, like the originals did.
The Imperial Guard ! That could be a whole 'nother franchise in itself, right ?
Proteus would be great too.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jun 29, 2019 23:13:43 GMT -5
Ugh.
Saw it.
Soooooo much worse than I expected.
(Very minor spoilers follow)
The beginning had so much potential. Loved how the X-Men's status had changed in the wake of Age of Apocalypse and what that meant for Xavier and for the X-Men, really liked that they stayed somewhat loyal to the source material when the X-Men took off in a space shuttle during a solar storm, and then the whole thing fell apart after with logic gaps, terrible dialogue, single-dimensional villains, questionable directing, editing, and cinematography, and little to no understanding of any character in this film who wasn't Charles, Jean, Scott, or Hank. And Sophie Turner was just WRONG for the role.
I honestly consider this the dumbest superhero film I've ever watched, even moreso than Last Stand. It had almost no redeeming qualities after the first ten minutes.
I'd honestly rather watch Roger Cormen's Fantastic Four again or the 1997 Batman and Robin film because those at least didn't take themselves too seriously. This film tries so hard to sell you depth and darkness, and that just makes the stupid stand out even more glaringly.
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Post by BigPapaJoe on Jun 30, 2019 3:05:05 GMT -5
Ugh. Saw it. Soooooo much worse than I expected. (Very minor spoilers follow) The beginning had so much potential. Loved how the X-Men's status had changed in the wake of Age of Apocalypse and what that meant for Xavier and for the X-Men, really liked that they stayed somewhat loyal to the source material when the X-Men took off in a space shuttle during a solar storm, and then the whole thing fell apart after with logic gaps, terrible dialogue, single-dimensional villains, questionable directing, editing, and cinematography, and little to no understanding of any character in this film who wasn't Charles, Jean, Scott, or Hank. And Sophie Turner was just WRONG for the role. I honestly consider this the dumbest superhero film I've ever watched, even moreso than Last Stand. It had almost no redeeming qualities after the first ten minutes. I'd honestly rather watch Roger Cormen's Fantastic Four again or the 1997 Batman and Robin film because those at least didn't take themselves too seriously. This film tries so hard to sell you depth and darkness, and that just makes the stupid stand out even more glaringly. Also, you could at the very least see young Alicia Silverstone at the peak of her uh...powers.  |
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