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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2019 19:42:06 GMT -5
Here is my Batman chronology. Even though it's a mix of different continuities, I consider it all the same guy. My method of ordering the stories is that I don't count too much when a story was published, but rather what point in Batman's career he is at. With a little help from Hypertime (the general concept of which I though most fans more or less came to on their own anyway, and Morrison just formalized it and gave it a name, but I appear to have been mistaken about that), the stories and "takes" on the character flow together pretty well, as far as I'm concerned. The biggest sticking point for me between the different continuities isn't factual inconsistencies (of which there are surprisingly few), but rather inconsistencies in tone. Luckily, the Batman Adventures comics provide a nice bridge between the Year One / Legends Of The Dark Knight comics into the Batman 66 series. My chronology also doesn't have to worry about the Earth 1 vs Earth 2 fiasco, since I'm not a big fan Golden, Silver, or Bronze Age DC anyway (I am still sampling mid '70s to mid '80s Batman, trying to unearth the gems). The Batman stories which I do consider to be Earth 2-ish, and most Batman team-ups with other heroes, are in my separate DC Universe chronology. One glaring oversight in my list is that I'm missing a Dick Grayson Robin origin. I forget which ones I've tried over the years, but I haven't found a good story yet that tells that tale. I believe Dixon wrote a Year One that I didn't care for. And either the Zero-hour issues were for Tim, or I didn't like them, but I know I did read them and they didn't make the cut for whatever reason.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Jun 10, 2019 20:26:23 GMT -5
Here is my Batman chronology. Even though it's a mix of different continuities, I consider it all the same guy. My method of ordering the stories is that I don't count too much when a story was published, but rather what point in Batman's career he is at. With a little help from Hypertime (the general concept of which I though most fans more or less came to on their own anyway, and Morrison just formalized it and gave it a name, but I appear to have been mistaken about that), the stories and "takes" on the character flow together pretty well, as far as I'm concerned. The biggest sticking point for me between the different continuities isn't factual inconsistencies (of which there are surprisingly few), but rather inconsistencies in tone. Luckily, the Batman Adventures comics provide a nice bridge between the Year One / Legends Of The Dark Knight comics into the Batman 66 series. My chronology also doesn't have to worry about the Earth 1 vs Earth 2 fiasco, since I'm not a big fan Golden, Silver, or Bronze Age DC anyway (I am still sampling mid '70s to mid '80s Batman, trying to unearth the gems). The Batman stories which I do consider to be Earth 2-ish, and most Batman team-ups with other heroes, are in my separate DC Universe chronology. One glaring oversight in my list is that I'm missing a Dick Grayson Robin origin. I forget which ones I've tried over the years, but I haven't found a good story yet that tells that tale. I believe Dixon wrote a Year One that I didn't care for. And either the Zero-hour issues were for Tim, or I didn't like them, but I know I did read them and they didn't make the cut for whatever reason. That's what I tried to do as well, all my favorite stories through all the years. I love your inclusion of the Batman Adventures, I only used the World's finest adaptation but you're right the tone of those books is great. Although the overall story wasn't the greatest I did like the flashbacks to Dick's early years in Batman and Robin Eternal which may work for you if you've never read it. |
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Post by beccabear67 on Jun 10, 2019 21:11:47 GMT -5
So many Batmans, which to choose?  The Batman comics I think of as the height for the character are the Neal Adams drawn ones and the Englehart & Rogers ones. Best single story though would be 'There Is No Hope In Crime Alley', Denny O'Neil & Dick Giordano.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2019 21:34:29 GMT -5
That's what I tried to do as well, all my favorite stories through all the years. I love your inclusion of the Batman Adventures, I only used the World's finest adaptation but you're right the tone of those books is great. Although the overall story wasn't the greatest I did like the flashbacks to Dick's early years in Batman and Robin Eternal which may work for you if you've never read it. I never read B&R Eternal. I'll check it out. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2019 23:04:33 GMT -5
I personally my reading of Batman is through both Batman and Detective Comics exclusively and nothing more.
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Post by chadwilliam on Jun 11, 2019 1:42:48 GMT -5
My chronology also doesn't have to worry about the Earth 1 vs Earth 2 fiasco I think "fiasco" perfectly sums up any attempt to insert notions of Earth 1/Earth 2 into Superman and Batman's histories if for no other reason than the fact that it goes against the intentions of the creators who weren't likely thinking of their characters being mere spin-offs of the original iterations when they wrote their tales. Earth 2 works as an alternate world loosely based upon the Golden Age era, but contains so many discrepancies (at least when applied to characters with continuous publication histories such as Superman and Batman) that you'd have to create more and more alternate Earths (Earth 2.1, Earth 2.2, etc) to account for all the inconsistencies. |
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Post by thwhtguardian on Jun 13, 2019 8:11:24 GMT -5
I need a better Riddler story, I had remembered liking Chuck Dixon's Year One Riddler story when it came out...but it was almost painful reading it the other day. A classic case of why telling instead of showing is the death of a good story.
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Post by chadwilliam on Jun 13, 2019 11:54:47 GMT -5
I need a better Riddler story, I had remembered liking Chuck Dixon's Year One Riddler story when it came out...but it was almost painful reading it the other day. A classic case of why telling instead of showing is the death of a good story. I think his Detective 140 debut is one of the best entrances a villain ever had - perhaps, second only to The Joker if we're limiting things to Batman's Rogues Gallery. Batman 179 is another which still impresses me being as it is the earliest comic I can think of which seriously examines the possibility that a mental illness could be the cause of his need to leave riddles before committing his crimes. In spite of a publication date of 1966, it really seems as though Bob Kanigher knew something about OCD long before the condition was something most people had even heard of. He has to leave clues before committing a crime because his brain is obsessed with the ritual. Remove the ritual from the equation and crippling anxiety befalls him - his heart begins to race; he breaks out in a sweat; he can't think of doing anything else but scratching this itch his brain can't let go.  Batman 292 is a Riddler tale strengthened by the fact that it's part of David Reed's excellent "Where Were You on the Night Batman was Killed?" four-parter (and probably of some interest to those wondering just what was going on over in Batman while Englehart and Rogers were working on their classic run over at Detective). Batman is supposedly dead and The Riddler wants the credit, so telling a story which is partially true/partially false, we get Edward Nigma trying to pull one over on a courtroom full of Batman's greatest foes. Detective 705-707 is a Chuck Dixon penned tale in which The Riddler kidnaps The Cluemaster, straps a bomb to him, and appraises Batman of the whole situation. Though the idea was taken from a Dirty Harry movie, it's put to good use here. Through The Cluemaster, Riddler delivers one riddle after another to Batman giving him varying amounts of time to be where he needs to be after he's solved the latest riddle so that he can await the next. Sometimes he's given a couple of minutes, sometimes an hour or two. Of course while this is going on, The Riddler is working on a scheme to net himself a small fortune far from where he's arranged Batman to be. In other words, Batman has to figure out how to be in two places at once if he's going to take down The Riddler and not get The Cluemaster killed at the same time. It's a fun tale and Batman gets to use his ingenuity in ways his post-Crisis self couldn't often manage. While I'm not always a fan of Dixon, you'll never hear me say a bad thing about this one - it's an excellent story by any measure - whether you're looking for a great Riddler yarn or simply a Batman one from post-Knightfall. |
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Post by Hoosier X on Jun 13, 2019 12:08:09 GMT -5
I need a better Riddler story, I had remembered liking Chuck Dixon's Year One Riddler story when it came out...but it was almost painful reading it the other day. A classic case of why telling instead of showing is the death of a good story. I think his Detective 140 debut is one of the best entrances a villain ever had - perhaps, second only to The Joker if we're limiting things to Batman's Rogues Gallery. Batman 179 is another which still impresses me being as it is the earliest comic I can think of which seriously examines the possibility that a mental illness could be the cause of his need to leave riddles before committing his crimes. In spite of a publication date of 1966, it really seems as though Bob Kanigher knew something about OCD long before the condition was something most people had even heard of. He has to leave clues before committing a crime because his brain is obsessed with the ritual. Remove the ritual from the equation and crippling anxiety befalls him - his heart begins to race; he breaks out in a sweat; he can't think of doing anything else but scratching this itch his brain can't let go. Batman 292 is a Riddler tale strengthened by the fact that it's part of David Reed's excellent "Where Were You on the Night Batman was Killed?" four-parter (and probably of some interest to those wondering just what was going on over in Batman while Englehart and Rogers were working on their classic run over at Detective). Batman is supposedly dead and The Riddler wants the credit, so telling a story which is partially true/partially false, we get Edward Nigma trying to pull one over on a courtroom full of Batman's greatest foes. Detective 705-707 is a Chuck Dixon penned tale in which The Riddler kidnaps The Cluemaster, straps a bomb to him, and appraises Batman of the whole situation. Though the idea was taken from a Dirty Harry movie, it's put to good use here. Through The Cluemaster, Riddler delivers one riddle after another to Batman giving him varying amounts of time to be where he needs to be after he's solved the latest riddle so that he can await the next. Sometimes he's given a couple of minutes, sometimes an hour or two. Of course while this is going on, The Riddler is working on a scheme to net himself a small fortune far from where he's arranged Batman to be. In other words, Batman has to figure out how to be in two places at once if he's going to take down The Riddler and not get The Cluemaster killed at the same time. It's a fun tale and Batman gets to use his ingenuity in ways his post-Crisis self couldn't often manage. While I'm not always a fan of Dixon, you'll never hear me say a bad thing about this one - it's an excellent story by any measure - whether you're looking for a great Riddler yarn or simply a Batman one from post-Knightfall. These are all great! I was just about to pipe in and recommend Detective Comics #705 to #707 as the best Riddler story ever! Another one I absolutely LOVE is Batman #362, which is SO DAMNED RIDICULOUS that it seems to be making fun of the whole idea of the Riddler's M.O. There's a certain brilliance to it, a mocking homage to the Riddler's Golden Age and Silver Age roots. I also like Batman #263 and #279 a lot. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2019 19:55:47 GMT -5
Best single story though would be 'There Is No Hope In Crime Alley', Denny O'Neil & Dick Giordano. That story would made my top 3 ... easily. |
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zilch
Full Member
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Post by zilch on Jun 13, 2019 21:39:32 GMT -5
I break it down like this...
Early '39-'53 - Exclusively Earth-Two
some overlap with Earth-Two and B
'50-'60 - Exclusively Earth-B
minor overlap with Earth-B and One
'64-'86 Earth-One, with some overlap between Earth-One and Post-Crisis
'86-2011 Earth-Post Crisis
Some stories happen on multiple Earths.
-z
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Post by Cei-U! on Jun 13, 2019 22:53:55 GMT -5
I break it down like this... Early '39-'53 - Exclusively Earth-Two some overlap with Earth-Two and B '50-'60 - Exclusively Earth-B minor overlap with Earth-B and One '64-'86 Earth-One, with some overlap between Earth-One and Post-Crisis '86-2011 Earth-Post Crisis Some stories happen on multiple Earths. -z That sounds about right, though I prefer "Earth-1.5" over Earth-B. The latter only exists because Bob Rozakis got his panties in a bunch over Murray Boltinoff and Bob Haney not paying close enough attention to continuity to satisfy Bob. No comic book story has ever identified itself as occuring on Earth-B (which is also true of -1.5 but I'm not speaking from a position of authority, as "The DC Answer Man" implicitly did).
By the way, Jim, I need your mailing address so TwoMorrows can send you a comp copy of my book.
Cei-U! I summon the bat-theory!
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Post by beccabear67 on Jun 14, 2019 11:39:32 GMT -5
So... which earth had Ace The Bat Hound? I was thinking Earth 2 and whatever the cartoon version is, but there may be more to this than I knew. Would Ace get to meet Krypto?   |
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Post by Cei-U! on Jun 14, 2019 11:46:32 GMT -5
So... which earth had Ace The Bat Hound? I was thinking Earth 2 and whatever the cartoon version is, but there may be more to this than I knew. Would Ace get to meet Krypto? Some may insist Bat-Hound belongs to Earth-Two, but I maintain he belongs firmly to Earth-One. Ace appears in no canonical (i.e., self-identified) E2 story, but does pop up in later stories inarguably set on E1.
Cei-U! Woof woof!
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Post by thwhtguardian on Jun 14, 2019 20:10:53 GMT -5
He may not appear in any "official" Earth-Two stories, but I think the general feel of the Ace stories seems much more similar to the feel of your average Earth-Two story than your average Earth-One story and for my money the divide is more about tone than anything else.
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