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Post by brutalis on Jan 10, 2020 8:26:21 GMT -5
Expanding upon my last discussion about enjoying the 1940/1950's western movies, it reminds me that as a child in the late 60's and early 70's many of these aging western cowboy stars were still alive making appearances all across the USA. My grandfather up in the mountain retirement city of Payson would take me every Summer to 2 local gatherings: in the 1st week of August (matching up with my birthday August 7th) we would spend several days at their local Rodeo and then in the fall (usually mid October) there was always a local country music/bluegrass festival. Both of these combined with a Phoenix annual Rodeo in June provided lots of opportunities for getting to see a lot of the aging Western movie Cowboys. So a part of my growing up was spent watching these guys and gals on the television and then getting to see and many times meet and talk with them in person at these events. I got to see them actually riding horses and shooting guns and all the time appreciating that this was something special which was passing away and wouldn't be around to enjoy much longer. Seeing the likes of Gene Autry, Roy Rogers, Dale Evans, Bob Steele, Johnny Mack Brown, Clayton Moore and many others is a treasured memory that few if any children of today and the future will ever get to know for meeting their heroes in real life.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2020 11:35:19 GMT -5
I met Clayton Moore in the late 1960's in Los Angeles once and sharing things about his experience being the Lone Ranger.
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Post by brutalis on Feb 5, 2020 8:00:10 GMT -5
So then, where Marvel Western comics were mostly superhero's in cowboy boots wearing six-shooters and rather simplistic in story and tone reflecting their creation in the 1940's and 1950's, DC had the daringly different Jonah Hex. Gone is the colorful fun West and say hello to the deadly, scary heat seared West! Created by writer John Albano and artist Tony DeZuniga this scarred bounty hunter with a personal code of honor looks and feels like a Sergio Leone Italian western. The look, tone and art style providing a grimmer, dirtier, grittier, nastier looking more reflective of the real West. In jonah Hex world you don't see green pastures with lush tree's and forests with mountain streams of ice cold running water. Hex world is searingly bright and hot enough to dehydrate Ice Man fast! Hex's real world if full of rattle snakes, scorpions and gila monsters. And that is just the villains he hunts, not to mention the creatures that in abundance. Hex hunts the bad guys not because he is a good guy, but for pay in making a living to survive. This isn't a man doing his civic duty, it is a scarred (mentally, emotionally, physically) man with very few options left to him after a war that tore the country apart.
Where Marvel is full of optimism and brightly clad heroic cowpokes DC gives us a man clothed totally in grey from head to toe, inside and out! The reputation of Hex is well earned and he readily looks the part of grizzled, cynical killer whose path you don't want to ever come across. If you are in the gun-sight of Jonah Hex you are most likely already a dead man and just don't know it yet. Hex is such a strong concept and visualization it is no wonder that he is one of the sole cowboy comic books which has managed to being published and used through the decades. Whether you know the grey ghost killer from comics, cartoons, television or his movie; you will never forget him and you will want to see more.
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Post by Prince Hal on Feb 5, 2020 10:32:40 GMT -5
So then, where Marvel Western comics were mostly superhero's in cowboy boots wearing six-shooters and rather simplistic in story and tone reflecting their creation in the 1940's and 1950's, DC had the daringly different Jonah Hex. Gone is the colorful fun West and say hello to the deadly, scary heat seared West! Created by writer John Albano and artist Tony DeZuniga this scarred bounty hunter with a personal code of honor looks and feels like a Sergio Leone Italian western. The look, tone and art style providing a grimmer, dirtier, grittier, nastier looking more reflective of the real West. In jonah Hex world you don't see green pastures with lush tree's and forests with mountain streams of ice cold running water. Hex world is searingly bright and hot enough to dehydrate Ice Man fast! Hex's real world if full of rattle snakes, scorpions and gila monsters. And that is just the villains he hunts, not to mention the creatures that in abundance. Hex hunts the bad guys not because he is a good guy, but for pay in making a living to survive. This isn't a man doing his civic duty, it is a scarred (mentally, emotionally, physically) man with very few options left to him after a war that tore the country apart. Where Marvel is full of optimism and brightly clad heroic cowpokes DC gives us a man clothed totally in grey from head to toe, inside and out! The reputation of Hex is well earned and he readily looks the part of grizzled, cynical killer whose path you don't want to ever come across. If you are in the gun-sight of Jonah Hex you are most likely already a dead man and just don't know it yet. Hex is such a strong concept and visualization it is no wonder that he is one of the sole cowboy comic books which has managed to being published and used through the decades. Whether you know the grey ghost killer from comics, cartoons, television or his movie; you will never forget him and you will want to see more. Perfect read on the great Jonah Hex! I also enjoyed the later Scalphunter series, which had a similar gritty edge to it. I wish I could read more of the pre-60s Marvel Westerns. Many of them, based on covers by the likes of Don Heck,Russ Heath and Joe Maneely, certainly don't look like the later superhero-style Westerns you mention, brutalis . Are the stories within standard watered-down stuff, or are some of them harder-edged? Check out these covers: Don Heck. Yes, that raw 1950s Don Heck!  Russ Heath with a gutshot! And John Severin channeling many a Kubert cover.  |
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Post by brutalis on Feb 5, 2020 10:57:03 GMT -5
@falstaffi don't have many pre 60's Marvel Westerns to really judge from on their being harder edged or not. Many though have been reprinted as back ups in the ongoing Kid Colt, Rawhide Kid and Two Gun Kid during the 60's, and those I have seen do tend towards being more adult. They aren't of the violent blood and guts type, but more "realistic/true" in tone and intent. Usually they were much more moralistic as in where a young guy turns fast gun and either dies or regrets it in the end or a bad gunman finds out the hard way the "old" good guy is still better/smarter. The parent pushing the child too hard or not hard enough and the child grows up wild and woolly with a gun only to regret or give up when the parent dies. That kind of stuff. Wouldn't know if those have been "edited" for reprint purposes or not?
But dagnabbit ain't those 50's artists all some kind of great? Maneely, Severin, Wildey, Heck, Romita, Whiteny, Keller, Everett, Baker, Reinman and Roth to name a few!
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Feb 5, 2020 11:19:04 GMT -5
So then, where Marvel Western comics were mostly superhero's in cowboy boots wearing six-shooters and rather simplistic in story and tone reflecting their creation in the 1940's and 1950's, DC had the daringly different Jonah Hex. Gone is the colorful fun West and say hello to the deadly, scary heat seared West! Created by writer John Albano and artist Tony DeZuniga this scarred bounty hunter with a personal code of honor looks and feels like a Sergio Leone Italian western. The look, tone and art style providing a grimmer, dirtier, grittier, nastier looking more reflective of the real West. In jonah Hex world you don't see green pastures with lush tree's and forests with mountain streams of ice cold running water. Hex world is searingly bright and hot enough to dehydrate Ice Man fast! Hex's real world if full of rattle snakes, scorpions and gila monsters. And that is just the villains he hunts, not to mention the creatures that in abundance. Hex hunts the bad guys not because he is a good guy, but for pay in making a living to survive. This isn't a man doing his civic duty, it is a scarred (mentally, emotionally, physically) man with very few options left to him after a war that tore the country apart. Where Marvel is full of optimism and brightly clad heroic cowpokes DC gives us a man clothed totally in grey from head to toe, inside and out! The reputation of Hex is well earned and he readily looks the part of grizzled, cynical killer whose path you don't want to ever come across. If you are in the gun-sight of Jonah Hex you are most likely already a dead man and just don't know it yet. Hex is such a strong concept and visualization it is no wonder that he is one of the sole cowboy comic books which has managed to being published and used through the decades. Whether you know the grey ghost killer from comics, cartoons, television or his movie; you will never forget him and you will want to see more. I pretty much completely agree with all of this. I never liked the Marvel western books for that very reason. It was like comparing "singing cowboy" films to Leone and Pekinpah. I guess they were okay if you liked that sort of thing. But they were way out of date. I do think that DC paved the way for Jonah Hex, rather than him jumping fully formed from the mind of Albano and DeZuniga. Bat Lash was a bit more realistic approach to the western while still hewing to the less relaxed code. The Outlaw feature that preceded Hex in All-Star Western appeared to be trying to work some new ground before the horrendous cop-out in the last story before it re-booted. Jonah Hex was definitely a game-changer for comic book westerns though. |
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Post by brutalis on Mar 4, 2020 9:07:09 GMT -5
Was talking with a co-worker about growing up and learning to fish and those summer joys found in doing so with our grandparents. I can remember days on end of summer vacations up in the mountains of Payson spent walking up and down the Verde River as it flows down the mountains surrounding Payson. My grandfather would load up me and my brothers loooong before the sun came up during the week so we could be in there before the sun warmed the water and drew the trout up hungrily seeking bugs and eats. There was just something special about being up in the hills with our hot chocolate to warm us and casting out the 1st line of the chill morning as we watched the sun rising up over the tree tops, reflecting off the river and waiting for hungry trout to grab our line.
Grandpa was all about just enjoying the outdoors with the breeze blowing through the tree's and birds chirping and fish splashing in the water. It wasn't about sport fishing and "catching" your limit. If they were too small, set em free and send em back to grow. If you got a nice one then it was time to gut it, scale it, clean it and fry that fishie up in butter and have a tasty hot breakfast. Many times it was a couple of mornings to catch enough for a Friday or Saturday family fish fry up with all the family (grandparents, my parents, kids, my aunt and uncle and their 2 boys) along with cooking up fresh sweet corn. He taught us that you catch it, you clean it! Responsibility and skills going hand in hand even while instructing on the finer arts of fishing and what types of bait work better and the best times for fishing and catching.
There were lots of folks who would fish the river only during the "weekend" of Thursday through Saturday which was when the fish hatchery would stock the deep river pools with fresh trout. That was the "easy" way as the fish were starved for a day before being taken by truck up the dirt roads and dumped into the river. Anybody could toss in a line and get their quota for the week and never work up a sweat and be home in an hour. Grandpa didn't believe in that. He wanted us boys to learn and earn our meal! That it took an effort for catching up fish and there was a greater joy in having patience, appreciating the atmosphere and scents and sounds and sights of a mountain river while the wily fish attempts to steal your bait.
Those were spectacular days and crafted memories that to this day I hold dearly all the while cherishing the moments alone with gramps walking the river in the cloudy mountain morning dawn and will always deliver loving tears to my eyes. That is how the West is fun...
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Post by brutalis on May 1, 2020 8:29:37 GMT -5
With the passing of James Drury on April 6th this year I dug out my Virginian DVD's and spent my mandated Covid day off Wednesday enjoying some classic television western fun. Rated as the 3rd longest running western television show (after Gunsmoke and Bonanza) and based upon 1902 Owen Wister novel, Drury played the unnamed character through all 9 seasons of 249 episodes. If you say the Virginian, the series and Drury are the 1st things which come to mind for anyone growing up watching the show. The tough, honest and intelligent ( had to be since he managed to remain foreman under 5 different owners) Foreman of the Shiloh Ranch as portrayed by Drury has made him one of the most memorable and iconic cowboys alongside Clayton Moore as the Lone Ranger, The Cartwrights, the Rifleman Chuck Connors and many others.
Unlike many others shows which found renewed popularity with syndication in the late 70's and early 80's, the Virginian never had such an opportunity due to it's unique 90 minute time. In those days it was the 1/2 hr and 1 hr shows making the money in syndication packages across the USA and internationally. The Virginian's fame came from it always placing in the top 20 primetime listings and that each episode played and felt more like a full length movie. Characters and situations were portrayed accurately with plenty of room for depth and emotion and acting without a lot of the cliche's normally found in television. The Virginian's name was never given, his past mostly left vague and unknown with the focus on him and the men of the Shiloh creating a life and living the western way. The easy and natural friendship between The Virginian Drury and his best friend and partner Trampas Doug McClure was a great pleasure and big draw for the show along with the big name guest stars of the time like Hugh O'Brien, Ricardo Montalban, Aldo Ray, Lee Marvin, Betty Davis, Bruce Dern, Royal Dano, Broderick Crawford, Brian Keith, John Agar, Charles Bronson, Neville Brand, Jack Warden, Telly Savalas, Angie Dickinson, James Whitmore and many others.
Watching the Virginian is like reconnecting with a long time friend you haven't seen in quite awhile. The memories come back fast and furiously as I can remember watching the show with my grandfather as at the time they only had a black and white television and we had a color one so he came over whenever it aired. Seeing all those classic television and movie stars instantly reminds you just how important and powerful was the western television show back in earlier days of television for providing entertainment and education in helping young boys and girls growing up watching shows which presented heroes of virtue, honesty and courage. That is How the West was truly fun for many of us growing up in the 60's and 70's. I am very glad to having the entire DVD collection so I can enjoy this classic series whenever the mood strikes me.
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Post by Rob Allen on May 1, 2020 13:08:51 GMT -5
I've never seen an episode of The Virginian. That wasn't one of the westerns my parents watched. Maybe the 90-minute length was a problem.
If the character's name was never given, what did people call him? "Hey, you?"
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Post by brutalis on May 1, 2020 14:47:52 GMT -5
Most of the time he is spoken with directly in the episodes (how often do we use names when talking directly with somebody?) for personal interactions so he is only referred to as The Virginian whenever spoken of.
Virginian was the ONLY family western we watched regularly during original primetime airing. Occasionally a Bonanza or Gunsmoke episode depending on guest stars my grandfather liked seeing. All the rest of the "classic" western television shows I grew fond of were seen in repeats during syndication to the local channels here in Phoenix. Late Friday nights and early Saturday mornings for most of the western series like Have Gun Will Travel, Cheyenne, Lone Ranger, Cisco Kid, Fury, My Friend Flicka, F-Troop, Wanted Dead or Alive. And weekdays Monday through Friday from 3p-6pm would alternate every few months with Bonanza, Big Valley, Wild Wild West and the Rifleman.
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Post by Prince Hal on May 1, 2020 15:15:10 GMT -5
Most of the time he is spoken with directly in the episodes (how often do we use names when talking directly with somebody?) for personal interactions so he is only referred to as The Virginian whenever spoken of. Virginian was the ONLY family western we watched regularly during original primetime airing. Occasionally a Bonanza or Gunsmoke episode depending on guest stars my grandfather liked seeing. All the rest of the "classic" western television shows I grew fond of were seen in repeats during syndication to the local channels here in Phoenix. Late Friday nights and early Saturday mornings for most of the western series like Have Gun Will Travel, Cheyenne, Lone Ranger, Cisco Kid, Fury, My Friend Flicka, F-Troop, Wanted Dead or Alive. And weekdays Monday through Friday from 3p-6pm would alternate every few months with Bonanza, Big Valley, Wild Wild West and the Rifleman. May I add Laramie? (No better theme music was ever written for a TV Western.) The bread of life when I was a kid. And I still chow down on them today when I can. |
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Post by brutalis on May 1, 2020 17:24:08 GMT -5
Oh certainly yes Prince Hal you can add Laramie.That was one I didn't catch until just recently with GritTv running it. Always liked Robert Fuller in Emergency and he along with John Smith made quite the partners. Fuller adeptly captures the western attitude and carries himself quite well as a cowboy. Two other favorites of mine growing up I found later on during my teens is Cimarron Strip with Stuart Whitman's steel jawed, squinty eyed tough but caring Marshal Jim Crow with its only 1 season. Alongside that is the Texas Ranger team in Laredo with its strong comedic element and camaraderie they shared. Especially love Neville Band as Ranger Reese Bennet always getting into so much trouble. Another comedic one I did see a few episodes of during primetime with my grandfather was Barbary Coast with William Shatner and Doug McClure and Ted Cassidy. Only the vaguest of memories but the show sticks in my mind. Started viewing it again a few weeks ago as GetTV has put it on Saturday morning. Really enjoying seeing it now and catching things with a fresh eye and remembrance. Along that same trend but newer was Bruce Campbell's the Adventures of Brisco County Jr which also starred Julius Carry ad Christian Clemenson doing their western funny and games. In that same vein of comedy western is Richard Dean Anderson's Legend where he plays a western dime novelist reluctantly bringing his character to life with the aide of absent minded European professor Janos Bartock portrayed most excellently by John De Lancie. That is part of what I adore about Western television series: an abundance of creativity and fun all within the boundaries of the wild open west. |
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Post by brutalis on May 22, 2020 10:07:11 GMT -5
Sparked from something Slam_Bradley wrote in the Classic Movie Discussion thread has me thinking upon what he called "the end of the west" and enjoying those type of westerns. Remembering movies of the aging cowboy and his last days of the wild and wooly west is a story told often in book and movies. Some of note: Monte Walsh (couple of versions to choose), Will Penny, Ride the High Country, The Gunhawk, The Gunfighter, The Shootist, Outlaw Justice, A Gunfight, Lonesome Dove, Unforgiven, The Wild Bunch and The Last Hard Men are just a few which come to mind. Many an actor carried themselves proudly as their silver hairs sprouted and sunburn weathered leather like wrinkles developed in providing them a rough, tough and don’t mess with me exterior. Yet with a tired soul and caring heart hidden beneath their ragged shirts, fading jeans and well worn out boots it was these cowpokes and determined pioneers who provide us a glimpse of the grit and gristle they carried themselves with in their youth when exploring the unknown west and building the American country a trail at a time. To endure hostile conditions, climate/weather, terrain and Indians in struggling to survive as they built towns and ranches and farms wherever they could. Giving of their strength, their sweat, their blood, their deep courage against overwhelming odds to not only survive but to grow and build and expand. Many in the end losing the battle for the way of life they know as civilization takes root in removing the wild and exciting ways of the past for the advances of the future. These are stories which speak to our imagination and hearts even as we struggle ourselves through each day. They show the past while instructing and educating us in preparation for tomorrow. We can watch those movies of the dwindling cowboy way of life and perhaps see ourselves and our current world in a new light for every day a piece of the past expires and is lost. Today's children don't know of or remember a time before their own, not recognizing that sometimes limited resources or struggling to make do or survive with what you have and not worrying over what you don't have makes all the difference. I grew up poor yet happy not caring that we were poorer than others around us. We made the most of what we had and shared it all with grace and love and caring of our family and our friends and loved ones. Never worrying overly about each day, simply living to the best of our abilities while fighting to make sure there would be a better next day. The world could benefit from watching more of the end of the west(ern) and learning how to live, adjust and prepare for the future that is always ahead of us... |
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Post by brutalis on Jul 15, 2020 18:35:32 GMT -5
Ahhh there is something quite comforting and soothing which refreshes the mind, heart and soul when watching favorite western movies. This weeks emotional turmoil in choosing to resign from job is a memory pushed aside each night this week as GritTv's evening movies play. From 5pm to 7pm my mind immerses itself int western splendor riding the trail with beloved heroes.
Monday was the Duke and Mitchum in El Dorado. Last night Wayne again in True Grit while tonight will be Lancaster and Douglas in a personal favorite Gunfight at the OK Corral. Tomorrow night I ride the range in 2 Audie Murphy movies then end the week on Friday with a pair of Randolph Scott shoot em ups.
The days of simpler times of honest hard work and good triumphs over evil in western movies constantly reminds me of the importance for doing and giving your best in a job well done. That we all have a worth and value as individuals in life and our work. That we should never give up or allow ourselves to be beaten down or broken when we should stand tall, proud and strong in confronting each days challenges.
Western movies provide me relaxation and entertainment but they also deliver to me the strength, courage and determination for being the best ME that I can be.
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Post by brutalis on Aug 22, 2020 4:37:13 GMT -5
How the West Was Fun for me in my youth meant pondering over who could be the Marvel gun toting Kid's in movies and television? Those 3 travelling youngster's who upheld law (though 2 were misunderstood owlhoots) in the days of the wild west: The Rawhide Kid, Kid Colt and the Two Gun Kid. Many a night was spent in consideration of who could possibly fill those boots?
I eventually came up with 3 versions that suited my idea's of who might portray the fast shooting Kids. One version for any shows on television. 2 versions for the big screen: one as the Kid's and another for them as Hollywood might show them in being more adult, older gunslingers surviving the hardships in upholding the law of the West.
Television would give us John Smith from Laramie as the Rawhide Kid, Doug McClure from The Virginian as Kid Colt and Lee Majors from the Big Valley as the Two Gun Kid.
For the youngsters in movies I went with Audie Murphy as Rawhide Kid, Ricky Nelson as Kid Colt and Roy Rogers being the Two Gun Kid.
For my adult quick drawers I went with Burt Lancaster for the Rawhide Kid, Kirk Douglas for Kid Colt and Richard Boone as Two Gun Kid.
I also have a grizzled old end of the trail tougher than leather trio who had outlived the West which they tamed. Actually, now I have 3 versions that I'm partial to as an adult for the guys once they dropped the Kid from their names. One consists of James Coburn as Rawhide, Charles Bronson as Colt and then Jack Palance as Two Gun. The other version of the aging Kids has Robert Taylor as Rawhide and Randolph Scott as Colt and Joel McRea as Two Gun. The final version of dogged well aged and tempered steel six shooter's for me is Robert Taylor as Rawhide, Richard Widmark as Colt and Robert Ryan as Two Gun.
Many a night I have dreamt for these Marvel Western heroes riding the range upon the small and big screens over the years. If only Hollywood had found Marvel back in the day...
And of course if Hollywood did anything with Red Wolf it was going to be Jay Silverheels!
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