shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,860
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Post by shaxper on Jul 3, 2019 8:12:55 GMT -5
Okay, the numbers have been tallied and re-tallied, and the fact is we ended up with far more and far bigger ties than I'd even expected. Trying to do tie-breakers with this many multi-way ties would be asking a ton of extra work from the community, and I worry that participation would be weak. It's okay. I totally did this to myself with the choice of event. And (honestly) I have no regrets about that. This was a ton of fun! So my plan going forward is to do the following: 1. Re-tally the data to produce a list of the Top Comic Book Rumblers. There are many many commonalities in the characters chosen from our nominations that would produce a final list with far less ties, and I really think it would be fascinating to see! 2. Still produce the final list of our Top Comic Book Rumbles...even though it's mostly ties. I hope this solution feels respectful to the intent of the event and to all who took the time to participate. I should have the final list up in a day or two. Thank you so much to everyone who participated! Lots of folks came out of the woodwork to get involved this time. I just chose a far far messier (and, I think, more fun!) topic this time around  |
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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 3, 2019 10:08:18 GMT -5
Sorry, sounds like a lot of work.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2019 10:29:13 GMT -5
Ditto.
Looking forward to seeing what your hard work comes up with.
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,860
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Post by shaxper on Jul 3, 2019 16:03:45 GMT -5
Sorry, sounds like a lot of work. It's work I love. Don't be sorry. I just hope the community feels satisfied with the results after putting in all that work! |
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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 3, 2019 16:13:37 GMT -5
It is what it is. I’m guessing that the time of year prevented many of our regulars from joining in. Too bad.
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Post by brutalis on Jul 3, 2019 16:51:45 GMT -5
Busy as work is/was last week and this, I still managed to mentally compose a list rather easily from memory. Follow this with a quick look up in Mike's Amazing World for issue/release/creator information and I had everything Shaxper needed. I think it is more of the "participation" issue that seems to plague much of the CCF site itself. Lots of casual browsers and then a strong core of "classic" regulars from the CBR days along with a sprinkling of newer members the last 2-3 years like myself and a few others who all participate and contribute quite regularly. Call it the Lookie Loo Syndrome maybe? Like to watch/read but hesitate to participate?
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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 3, 2019 17:43:49 GMT -5
Usually in the Christmas classic, we get 30 or so people participating in it. This topic was right up the alley of comic book fans. I’m really surprised at least half that number didn’t represent. That’s why I think the time of year late June early July had a role in the absent members.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2019 18:35:35 GMT -5
Usually in the Christmas classic, we get 30 or so people participating in it. This topic was right up the alley of comic book fans. I’m really surprised at least half that number didn’t represent. That’s why I think the time of year late June early July had a role in the absent members. I always look forward to the 12 Days, but I initially wasn't interested in participating in this event as rumbles are just about the least interesting aspect of super-hero comics to me these days, but I managed to find something about the topic that interested me even if most of the slugfests trotted out for the event were of no interest to me personally, and there was at least one other regular contributor who expressed a similar lack of interest in that aspect of comics in the advance warning thread, so I don't know how accurate your assumption of this being right up comic book fans alleys is outside of the stereotypes of comic book super-hero fans that persist out there. That being said, a lot of people did seem to enjoy this aspect, so I am glad Shax went forward with this. However, the difference between the 12 Days and this event are more numerous than just the time of year. -12 Days is an established tradition that has outlasted many members time here and and survived more than one home and still thrives. -the 12 Days occurs at the same time every year and people know when to expect it. It is a tentpole for the site as a whole. -the topic is announced several weeks in advance to give people time to prepare for it, not just a few days -while topics vary for the 12 Days, some are broader than others but most are broad enough to accommodate participation by people with different areas of interest under the broad umbrella of comics, this one had a very narrow focus that appealed only to a certain subset of fans and was hard to broaden beyond that (I know I tried really hard to broaden to things about comics that interest me more). Not that the topic is not valid, or anything of the sort, but it is one with a very narrow focus of appeal and that will limit participation. I've liked some topics/themes of the 12 Days more than others, but I have loved every iteration of the event because of the anticipation for it, the opportunity to look through favorites old and new in preparation for it, the anticipation of discovering something new that another member brought to the table, etc. It is something that transcends the specific topic of the year, while this, as fun as it is, was just a list of favorite comic book fights that appeared unexpectedly on the boards in the night with little notice or anticipation (and no offense is meant towards Shax here as he labors hard on these events to bring something special to the boards; they are a lot of work and getting them off the ground is an uphill battle, as I experienced with the Eisner Week Read A Graphic Novel event we tried for a couple of years). If it were just time of year, I would suspect that the 12 Days would have less participation as it is holiday season and people have a lot more obligations and demands on their time than summer, so I think pointing fingers at the time of year as the reason for limited participation is barking up the wrong tree. I like the idea of an annual top 100 event for the site, I really do. I think it could be a staple if we clove a little more to the 12 Days model in that it happens, every tear, has a different topic/theme every year, has that topic announced at the same time every year so people know when to expect it, and a little more lead time to prepare entries after the announcement. Perhaps something along the lines of the topic being announced on July 4th and the actual event starting the Monday in July, or the topic announced on the summer solstice with the event beginning on the 4th of July or some such. All of this is of course, my personal observations and offered in the spirit of constructive criticism only. -M |
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,860
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Post by shaxper on Jul 3, 2019 21:58:32 GMT -5
I very much appreciate that the spirit of this discussion is loving and done with the intention of making our community a better place. However, I'd really like to nip this in the bud as we tend to have a conversation just like this literally every time the CCF has an event, regardless of the circumstances, and it's both a little upsetting from the perspective of the person who has worked so hard to create and run this event and a poor reflection on this community in that literally every member, new or old, looking into this event ends up seeing long replies about what's wrong with the CCF and its members. I'd like to put a stop to all of that today by addressing the following:
1. This event was a success. And I don't mean that in a Fascist Eastern government sort of way. The intent was to have fun. Everyone who participated seemed to have fun. Thus, it's a success. We run this community like a local bar, only without the alcohol. We are made up of a handful of close-knit regulars and a good amount of friendly faces who pass through and stay to chat for a time. I've never wanted a larger community, as that would change the energy of this place tremendously. And that means these events aren't going to get the kind of participation an event at CBR would get. Let's be realistic and consistent about what we want from this place. Bigger is seldom better in the realm of discussion communities.
2. The goal is never ever to compete with or be more like the Classic Comics Christmas. That is Kurt's baby. It predates this website and even predates my membership in the community that predates this website. I do my best not to imitate, steal from, or harm that event by taking away its distinctness. If I ran this just like the Classic Comics Christmas (Christmas in July?), I'd be ripping off Kurt AND I'd be minimizing the importance of that event. I will never ever do that.
3. No other event is ever going to be as successful as the Classic Comics Christmas. It is a long-standing tradition that predates this site, we look forward to it all year long, and much of what many of us love about the event is Kurt himself. Folks who aren't even a part of this community stop in to watch the Classic Comics Christmas because it is something bigger than the CCF. We are just darn lucky to be hosting it each year. When I initiated this year's event, I expected 10 participants and hoped for 20. The final results fell in that range. What went wrong this time (if you can even call it wrong) was my choosing a topic where there wasn't going to be much overlap of choices. I take ownership on that one.
4. I make no apologies for the scope of the event. Two people said it wasn't for them. That's fine. I chose the event because rumbles seldom appeal to me as well. I was looking to broaden my horizons. If that's not your cup of tea, that's fine. No need to repeatedly proclaim that it isn't your cup of tea. To go back to the Classic Comics Christmas example, there have been several years where the theme was outside of my wheelhouse. I took that as an opportunity to learn. You can't please all of the people all of the time.
5. I used to give multiple weeks advance notice on these events. The feedback I repeatedly got was that giving too much warning invited folks to slack off and forget about it. Participation increased when I gave less notice, not the reverse.
6. I'm a single father of two. I do these events around the same time each year, but it ultimately comes down to, "WOW! I've got a week coming up where I'm actually going to have some down time. Let's get that event started." I love this place, but it isn't Priority #1 in my life. I don't get paid to do this. In fact, I pay out of my own pocket to keep this site running. So I will do these events when I can afford to and give the appropriate amount of warning that past history indicates will maximize participation. And I'm more than a little sad that I have to explain and defend this. If it weren't for the amount of fun I've seen others have during this event, these kinds of comments would make me think twice about hosting events in the future.
In short:
- if you had fun, this event worked.
- If you didn't, oh well.
- This isn't the Classic Comics Christmas
- This isn't going to be the Classic Comics Christmas
- This isn't CBR
- This isn't going to be CBR
- Show a little appreciation, please
Any future concerns, you are always free to message me. Let's stop having this public conversation every time we have an event, though, as it only puts the community in a bad light and discourages future participation -- exactly the opposite of what those discussing it are intending.
I'm still damn excited by the enthusiasm we saw in this event, and I'm having a lot of fun working on my end of it. So let's embrace that and stop imposing benchmarks for success that inhibit that sense of fun.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2019 5:40:47 GMT -5
Any future concerns, you are always free to message me. Let's stop having this public conversation every time we have an event, though, as it only puts the community in a bad light and discourages future participation -- exactly the opposite of what those discussing it are intending. I'm still damn excited by the enthusiasm we saw in this event, and I'm having a lot of fun working on my end of it. So let's embrace that and stop imposing benchmarks for success that inhibit that sense of fun. Agreed. It's not quite the same (at all), but I occasionally run a book club. Turnout is often low. People who RSVP (online) don't show up. I had to cancel July's meet as only myself and one other person were going to attend. Some are coming up with excuses. One friend told me it's probably because of Wimbledon. But there's never a good month. When turnout is low in the winter, people talk about Xmas shopping, cold weather, etc. In January, I'm told it's because people are skint or resting from Xmas. In the spring, I'm told it's because people are still paying for heating and can't afford to come. In the summer, it's usually blamed on a sports event/being too hot/the heat on public transport/etc. My point, if I have one, and this is meant to be a positive post towards the event, is that there'll always be a reason or excuses, some valid, some not (I make no judgement on any individual at my book club or here). But I do become wary about excuses and people offering advice (again, no dig at anyone here). With my book club, I was told 20th July was a perfect date for everyone (it's a Saturday). Now the event is cancelled. Despite chatting to the attendees, and us all agreeing to the 20th July, cancellations came not long afterwards. And despite my best efforts to get a date set in stone, and us all having agreed to one, I've now got one friend saying that Wimbledon is to blame! There'll always be excuses/reasoning pertaining to the month of the year, a particular day not being ideal, someone having a cold, etc, etc. Some are valid, some aren't. But I think, and Shaxper appears to have the same mindset, that you just can't examine it too closely. No day or month will ever be ideal for everyone. Like Shaxper, I am damn excited by this event. I got to share some esoteric choices of my own (Hulk VS "Hulk Hogan"). I got to revisit things via suggestions made by others. I got to discover rumbles I didn't know about. I'm sure, like anyone, I'm very happy about it. |
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,860
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Post by shaxper on Jul 4, 2019 5:58:27 GMT -5
Tabulating is complete. Now it's just the finishing touches. It looks like we have enough good data to do the following:
The Top 50 Comic Book Rumblers
The Top 10 Comic Book Rumbles
Beyond that, we get caught up in ties and statistical outliers that invalidate the lists.
I think these are good numbers, and the results look good. Lesson learned -- I'll stop calling these lists Top 100s. That sets an expectation our size community is unlikely to attain.
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,860
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Post by shaxper on Jul 4, 2019 5:59:44 GMT -5
Like Shaxper, I am damn excited by this event. I got to share some esoteric choices of my own (Hulk VS "Hulk Hogan"). I got to revisit things via suggestions made by others. I got to discover rumbles I didn't know about. I'm sure, like anyone, I'm very happy about it. Thank you, sir. I know all parties involved mean well. But we can admire our problems or enjoy our successes, and I choose the latter. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 4, 2019 6:18:34 GMT -5
Tabulating is complete. Now it's just the finishing touches. It looks like we have enough good data to do the following: The Top 50 Comic Book Rumblers The Top 10 Comic Book Rumbles Beyond that, we get caught up in ties and statistical outliers that invalidate the lists. I think these are good numbers, and the results look good. Lesson learned -- I'll stop calling these lists Top 100s. That sets an expectation our size community is unlikely to attain. Good man. Thanks for doing all the work. |
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,860
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Post by shaxper on Jul 4, 2019 6:33:36 GMT -5
Tabulating is complete. Now it's just the finishing touches. It looks like we have enough good data to do the following: The Top 50 Comic Book Rumblers The Top 10 Comic Book Rumbles Beyond that, we get caught up in ties and statistical outliers that invalidate the lists. I think these are good numbers, and the results look good. Lesson learned -- I'll stop calling these lists Top 100s. That sets an expectation our size community is unlikely to attain. Good man. Thanks for doing all the work. Like I said before, it's really fun. I get to watch the contest in real-time |
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Post by thwhtguardian on Jul 4, 2019 8:14:49 GMT -5
Top 50 sounds good to me, can't wait to read the results!
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