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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2022 5:35:15 GMT -5
So....word is it's KO vs Reins at WM 2023...shhh.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2022 7:23:26 GMT -5
I have a better idea for WM XXXIX, given it’ll be 30 years since WM IX.
Roman Reigns beats Kevin Owens in controversial fashion. So Hulk Hogan comes to the ring to argue with the referee. Reigns tells Hogan to acknowledge him, but that leads to a challenge. After the Usos inadvertently throw salt into Reigns’ eyes, Hogan pins Reigns for the Undisputed Title.
Then, we have a summer featuring a Mega Maniacs reunion, where Hogan ignores the world title and he and Beefcake battle the Usos over the tag titles. Hogan doesn’t even bother defending the title until June, at which point he loses it to Reigns after a cameraman throws fire in his eyes.
Hogan leaves WWE shortly after and signs with AEW the year after - where he and Ric Flair battle on PPV.
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Post by codystarbuck on Dec 2, 2022 8:38:02 GMT -5
I have a better idea for WM XXXIX, given it’ll be 30 years since WM IX. Roman Reigns beats Kevin Owens in controversial fashion. So Hulk Hogan comes to the ring to argue with the referee. Reigns tells Hogan to acknowledge him, but that leads to a challenge. After the Usos inadvertently throw salt into Reigns’ eyes, Hogan pins Reigns for the Undisputed Title. Then, we have a summer featuring a Mega Maniacs reunion, where Hogan ignores the world title and he and Beefcake battle the Usos over the tag titles. Hogan doesn’t even bother defending the title until June, at which point he loses it to Reigns after a cameraman throws fire in his eyes. Hogan leaves WWE shortly after and signs with AEW the year after - where he and Ric Flair battle on PPV.Loser Has a Heart Attack!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2022 8:50:33 GMT -5
No, I was thinking more of a Ladder Match, they’ll both be able to get up a ladder, right?
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Post by codystarbuck on Dec 2, 2022 9:02:24 GMT -5
No, I was thinking more of a Ladder Match, they’ll both be able to get up a ladder, right? Make it a step-stool. No wait, Hogan's knees are shot. Battle on a stair-lift?
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Post by Batflunkie on Dec 2, 2022 10:27:59 GMT -5
Hogan leaves WWE shortly after and signs with AEW the year after - where he and Ric Flair battle on PPV. I know that this is a joke, but I wish Flair and all the other wrestlers who are way past their prime would just acknowledge the fact that they're not capable of handling bumps like they used to. If Terry Funk can retire with some sense of his dignity left, they can too
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2022 10:35:55 GMT -5
So true! I liked Flair’s ‘retirement’ match against Shawn Michaels at WrestleMania XXIV. What a great finale that could and should have been.
I’m not convinced Flair’s recent ‘last match’ is anything of the kind. I would bet money there’ll be another one.
Although I think he shouldn’t really have wrestled beyond 2001, he did pull it out of the hat a few times from 2001 to 2008, but I feel that 2008 WM match against Shawn should have been his last bout.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2022 11:59:21 GMT -5
One news site is stating that a Hell in a Cell match is planned for the Royal Rumble.
Surely not? Has to be a joke. It’d be counter-productive and absolutely redundant to put HIAC at the Rumble. The Rumble itself should be the attraction.
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Post by codystarbuck on Dec 2, 2022 18:04:06 GMT -5
One news site is stating that a Hell in a Cell match is planned for the Royal Rumble. Surely not? Has to be a joke. It’d be counter-productive and absolutely redundant to put HIAC at the Rumble. The Rumble itself should be the attraction. It's what happens when you don't have an individual, that can draw money on their own. You end up doing gimmicks to sell the show, rather than the stars.
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Post by commond on Dec 2, 2022 18:15:04 GMT -5
Royal Rumble 2023 has already broken the record for the largest gate at a Rumble.
Apparently, Triple H wants to end the all-gimmick shows like Hell in a Cell and use the gimmick the way it was originally intended.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2022 6:48:32 GMT -5
Royal Rumble 2023 has already broken the record for the largest gate at a Rumble. Apparently, Triple H wants to end the all-gimmick shows like Hell in a Cell and use the gimmick the way it was originally intended. I like how Triple H talked at the post-Survivor Series press conference. I remember him saying something like, “When you challenge a wrestler, you don’t challenge them to Hell in a Cell, or Money in the Bank.” And that’s right. Wrestling should aim for the appearance of reality. From a kayfabe perspective, why would I *want* to be in HIAC unless necessary? I like how HIAC was the culmination of the Batista/Triple H feud back in 2005. It has to have that whole “HIAC because the feud needs to be contained and end” logic, eh? Incidentally, one of my least favourite things in the modern era is the interference that occurs in cage matches. I didn’t mind occasional things back in the day, such as Bobby Heenan slamming the cage door on Warrior trying to escape at SummerSlam ‘90, or Kane ripping the HIAC door off during his debut, but the modern era seems filled with cage and HIAC bouts where someone does get in and interfere.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2022 6:53:28 GMT -5
The latest issue of Inside the Ropes has fact files about the territories. Now, if there’s one thing that unites us wrestling fans, it’s the fact that, whatever our ages, we appear to have an interest in the history of wrestling - and a knowledge. One thing I liked about the Apter mags was the way they introduced me to territories that weren’t airing in the UK (or were airing sporadically). Being able to read about the AWA and the like, at a time when videotapes were rare and sporadic, was good. I’m pleased that the advent of DVD/Blu-ray and the WWE Network have allowed me to see deeper into the past (I watched a 1977 Billy Graham/Bruno Sammartino match last night). Anyway, we all know the story of the Capitol Wrestling Corporation/WWWF, but here’s an example of what the magazine is writing about: I remember reading about Willie Gilzenberg in WWF Magazine years ago, but the guy doesn’t even have a Wikipedia page. Very little about him online. Anyone know much about him?
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Post by codystarbuck on Dec 3, 2022 11:34:33 GMT -5
Not a lot but Bruno mentions him a bit in the Kayfabe Commentaries WWWF Timeline, with Bruno commenting on things. I think he promoted segments of the territory. Usually, you had other promoters for certain parts of a territory and that was true of the Northeast, as well as places like Georgia, where Fred Ward promoted the Macon area, while the main office handled Atlanta. Even in the WCW days, they had local guys, like Gary Juster, who handled regions for them.
That entry is open to a bit of a debate. Bruno wasn't the star they used to break away; it was Buddy Rogers. Bruno was actually on the outs with Mondt and McMahon and working primarily in Toronto, where he was a favorite of the large Italian population. He was enticed to come in, to take over from the ailing Rogers, after the split. The territory did rejoin the NWA in 1971 and did not refer to the WWWF title as a "world title." They also didn't set up a new territory, when they broke away; it was just the existing Northeast territory. The WWWF kind of ceased to exist in 1976, when they renamed it the WWF, dropping "Wide" from the title. It is best to call it the Capitol territory or the Northeast, though it is understandable why they went with the heading they used, covering everything.
You have three eras, really; the Mondt/McMahon era of the 60s, the McMahon Sr era, and the McMahon Jr era, which begins in 1982, when Sr sells out to Jr. Then, in 1983, the withdraw, again, from the NWA and remain apart, until they did the stupid NWA Invasion, in the late 90s, as a rib on Jim Cornette, where they worked with Howard Brody and Dennis Coralluzzo, and bring in the Rock N Roll Express and Dan Severn.
Gorilla Monsoon was also involved in setting up Puerto Rico, as a regular territory, using the Capitol Sports name, which remained as the company name, even after Monsoon sold his interests out. They were the promoters behind the World Wrestling Council, which promoted the island for decades, with Carlos Colon as the star (and part owner). There was a large Puerto Rican population in New York (as seen in West Side Story), which led to Pedro Morales becoming champion; but, also provided the link for the early stars of Puerto Rican wrestling, who started in the Northeast, like Colon and Hercules Ayala, plus the connection for Puerto Rican wrestlers to work undercard matches in the WWF, like The Invaders.
Mondt is the real key to the Northeast region, as he had been a power in wrestling, going back to the 20s, when he was part of the Gold Dust Trio, with wrestler Ed "Strangler" Lewis and his manager, Billy Sandow. They controlled the main recognized World Title in that period and were largely responsible for the popularity of wrestling and the modern promotional style that emerged. They did, however, get into legal trouble over their control of things. Mondt helped keep the Northeast going, when Jack Curley died, along with his partners, which included boxing promoter Jess McMahon, the father of Vince Sr and grandfather of Jr. The elder McMahon was responsible for getting wrestling into Madison Square Garden.
Phil Zacko was a minority owner in the McMahon Sr era and promoted the Philadelphia and Baltimore end of things. Skaaland had been a wrestler and was a booker and agent for Sr, as well as office tasks, like collecting the box office receipts.
A little research on the Wrestling Classics Message Board shows that Gilzenberg was the New Jersey promoter and acted as the figurehead WWWF President. He was the one who announced, on tv, that Buddy Rogers had defeated Antonio Rocca in the fabled Rio De Janeiro tournament to become the first WWWF Champion. His on-air role was later picked up by New Japan's Hisashi Shinma, then Jack Tunney. Tunney was the brother of Frank Tunney, the long time Toronto promoter.
The question arose on the WCMB about the mob being involved in American pro wrestling and Gilzenberg's name was thrown out there, with no details. Promoting in New Jersey, I'd think he would have some connection to the mob, just as much as Mondt, in New York. The mob was definitely involved in places like Chicago and Kansas City and probably Los Angeles. The mobs were involved in the unions that had workers in some of the arenas, especially the Teamsters, which involved transport. Mob money was laundered through many arenas via several outlets, including concession stand sales and other regular functions at arenas. There is also talk of the mob laundering money through house shows. Probably all of the promoters had some connection, to smooth the process, including kickbacks and payoffs and even protection money against box office robberies.
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Post by codystarbuck on Dec 3, 2022 12:01:10 GMT -5
ps Bruno promoted the Pittsburg area, after buying into it, but ran it as its own mini-territory, with its own titles. Because of his involvement, it remained affiliated with the WWWF.
On the periphery of the Northeast, you had the Buffalo/Cleveland promotion, run by Pedro Martinez and then Johnny Powers, which used the National Wrestling Federation name, in the 70s. Martinez was also involved in Eddie Einhorn's short-lived International Wrestling Alliance, which was the first attempt at a national promotion. I can't recall who promoted that area before Martinez.
Rudy Dusek as a wrestler and part of the Omaha-based Dusek family. Brother Joe promoted the Omaha region, which was instrumental in the birth of the AWA.
Jack Curley was a long time promoter of sports in New York, including boxing, and introduced pro wrestling to the city and surrounding area. He aligned with Toots Mondt, after the Gold Dust Trio split up and they developed Jim Londos as the champion and big attraction, during the Great Depression. They worked as part of a trust with Boston promoter Paul Bowser and other promoters to spread their influence over pro wrestling promotion, before the birth of the NWA. Curley died in 1937, leading to Mondt to put together a new group of partners, including Jess McMahon, opening up MSG.
The real rival to the Northeast, in the Capitol Sports period, was Chicago, under Fred Kohler. Chicago was one of the biggest wrestling cities and Rogers was working for Kohler, when he won the title. Kohler's matches were the ones featured on the Dumont Network, on national tv, though Capitol also had matches on the Dumont Network, as did Los Angeles. Chicago had influence in Detroit and Indiana, under Jim Barnett, though it had a bit of rivalry with St Louis. St Louis was allied with Omaha, Iowa, Kansas City and Minnesota, before the split with Omaha, over the Thesz and Carpentier angle of the disputed title. Verne Gagne was the Omaha favorite, though he also worked heavily for Kohler, where they created the US heavyweight title for him. When they couldn't get Verne voted in as champion, they used the Thesz-Carpentier dispute to break away and had Carpentier lose to Gagne, in Omaha. Gagne then bought into Minnesota and started the AWA, with Omaha as a separate branch, for a while, before uniting them. There was the Omaha AWA World title and the Minnesota AWA World title, for some time, before they unified it, though, generally, the same person held both titles, before the unification.
Los Angeles was a rival in size and popularity, though not so much for controlling the title. They had pretty much used their own champions from the start and broke away during the Carpentier-Thesz dispute, calling themselves the World Wrestling Association, with guys like Freddie Blassie and The Destroyer as their world champions. Rikidozan held it, to lend legitimacy to his start up of the JWA, in Japan. Dick the Bruiser held it, then used the name when he and Wilbur Snyder bought the Indiana end of the old Barnett promotion, and called themselves the WWA, though they remained an NWA member (which caused issues when they tried to move in on the Sheik's end, in Detroit, though the NWA stayed out of it).
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Post by codystarbuck on Dec 3, 2022 12:17:40 GMT -5
pps The Southern and Southwest promotions were NWA members, but were less powerful than the Midwest and Northeast promoters, due to smaller population centers. They tended to be more of their own little Balkan states, within the NWA empire. The Fuller-Welch family controlled a lot of the Southern territories, either directly or through shares in other promotional offices. Texas was kind of its own little world, as was Oklahoma and the Gulf Coast. Again, you had smaller populations, with a few key cities and a lot of smaller towns. To look at the divide, consider wrestler Ricky Starr. he did his ballet gimmick in the Northeast, Chicago, Los Angeles and St Louis, but always wrestled as a collegiate-trained mat technician in Texas. Flamboyant gimmicks weren't as popular in Texas and the emphasis was more on hard hitting action and blood. The Southern territories were more about the local heroes and feuds, like Whitey Caldwell and Ron Wright, in Knoxville, or Sputnik Monroe and Jackie Fargo, in Tennessee.
Jim Barnett is an interesting figure in these discussions, when we get into the 60s-early 80s. He was the promoter in the Detroit and Indiana region and is credited with creating studio-based tv wrestling, rather than shooting at the arena. This allowed for closer filming of the action and a more exciting program, which was then used to entice people to buy tickets to the live events. Barnett sold his interest to the Sheik, for Detroit, and Bruiser & Snyder for Indiana. He then started up World Championship Wrestling, in Australia, which was hugely successful. He was often in senior positions in the NWA and helped broker the peace between the Sheik and Indianapolis, leading to crossover matches between Bruiser and The Sheik,
He sold his interests in Australia and came back to the US. He was then brought in to help stabilize Atlanta, after Ann Gunkel was pushed out and started the rival All-South promotion, in Atlanta, after her husband's death. Barnett bought into the NWA-affiliated side and was instrumental in getting them on WTBS (which broadcast both shows, for a time). This positioned Georgia to sort of be a national promotion, when WTBS expanded on cable, making Georgia Championship Wrestling its highest rated show and THE place for the NWA members to send talent to be seen on national tv. It was his ousting, by Ole Anderson, that led to Vince McMahon Jr buying up his shares and the Briscos', leading to Black Saturday. He then worked in the WWF offices, for a time, until they fired him for trying to orchestrate a takeover of the business. He then went back to work with Crockett and Turner Broadcasting, until his death.
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