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Post by commond on Dec 28, 2023 18:15:55 GMT -5
The most memorable bout from '95 for me was Bret vs. Diesel at Survivor Series '95, which pretty much saved my fandom. I was ready to walk away at that point. I probably would have got pulled back in at some point, but the WWF had been so dire up to that point and I desperately wanted Bret to take the title off Diesel. Most of the good TV matches from that year revolve around the usual suspects, Bret, Owen and Shawn. I wouldn't call any of the TV matches classics. The most memorable one for me was Shawn collapsing after taking an Owen enzuigiri to the back of the head.
I quite liked the Austin vs. Savio Vega strap match from '96. Most of the decent undercard stuff featured Austin, Foley or Marc Mero, the WCW castoffs.
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Post by Ricky Jackson on Dec 28, 2023 21:00:15 GMT -5
I saw Iron Claw this afternoon. Really enjoyed it. Yes, the timeline is condensed and changed around, like most bio pics, and Chris is erased from history, but the performances are really good. Yes, the Flair in the movie is like a C level ripoff of Flair from one of the lesser territories, but on the other hand, the actor playing Harley Race does a pretty good job
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Post by codystarbuck on Dec 28, 2023 21:30:34 GMT -5
I haven't watched pro wrestling for decades but I plan to see the Iron Claw movie next week if my schedule permits. Just know, going into it, that they are a Von Erich short! Apparently, the youngest, Chris, is completely absent from the film. My only guess as to why is number of characters. He did wrestle, briefly, so that can't be used as an excuse and he also committed suicide, like Kerry and Mike, so there is that. He is probably the saddest of the bunch, as he had to live through the other deaths and he idolized Kerry. His growth was stunted due to asthma and the medication he took for it, as he was both shorter and slighter of build than the others. He wrestled mainly the small guys and managers, like Percy Pringle III (aka Paul Bearer, in the WWF). The fact that he couldn't live up to the name, plus all of the rest of the trauma led him to also commit suicide. That was also the point where Dorothy, the mother, divorced Fritz, blaming him for the deaths of the boys and pushing them to be wrestlers. I'm kind of curious if the film touches on Dorothy's ultimatum to Fritz. She was the religious one and Fritz was running around with ring rats and boozing it up and she handed him an ultimatum. He "found God" (for real or as a con, I've heard arguments on both side) and then pushed that angle with the boys, making frequent appearances on The 700 Club and also getting World Class, at one point, on the Christian Broadcasting Network (CBN, later the Family Channel and ABC Family). Given that Kevin was involved in this film, as a reference, I suspect that it will be highly filtered, at best, aside from the usual Hollywood alterations "for dramatic purposes." The trailer looks good, regardless of how accurate it is (well, except the guy playing Terry Gordy is way too small, as is the actor playing Kerry, who looks more like Marty Jannetty, to me). It's too bad they didn't film this project a few years back, as Joseph Hudson, aka Jocephus and The Question Mark, in Billy Corgan's NWA, would have been perfect to play Bruiser Brody (he did portray him for Dark Side of the Ring and his gimmick, for a time, was basically a Brody rip-off)
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Post by codystarbuck on Dec 28, 2023 21:39:06 GMT -5
I saw Iron Claw this afternoon. Really enjoyed it. Yes, the timeline is condensed and changed around, like most bio pics, and Chris is erased from history, but the performances are really good. Yes, the Flair in the movie is like a C level ripoff of Flair from one of the lesser territories, but on the other hand, the actor playing Harley Race does a pretty good job The real question is, did they showcase Iceman King Parsons? I did notice on IMDB that they had a credit for Gino Hernandez (makes sense, since they could do his death); but, I saw nothing for Chris Adams, which seems a bit odd, since, being British, he'd make a good background character for the wrestling stuff and he had a history with the boys. Looking at who they did list, as characters, I could see the reasoning for including them (Gino for his death, Gary Hart as booker and possibly for trying to tell Fritz that the boys were out of control), Brody for being tight with Fritz and his murder, Lance Von Erich/Ricky Vaughn for the cousin angle and defecting with Ken Mantell, when he started Wild West Wrestling, with half (or more) of their roster and Fritz outing him on tv. Made Fritz look like an ass either way, as he is the one who claimed that Lance was the "son" of "brother" Waldo Von Erich. Leaving that all aside, Flair needs to talk to a screenwriter about his plane crash, as that would make a hell of a movie.
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Post by driver1980 on Dec 29, 2023 5:18:55 GMT -5
A Hulk Hogan biopic could be problematic. What if a director takes Hogan’s lies at face value? We’ll end up with a movie where Hogan wrestles at Wembley Stadium, misses out on the George Foreman Grill, and chats with Harley Race as the ring burns in the background. It’d be the most pathetic biopic ever - unless we get a director who knows Hogan’s lies, every one of them.
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Post by driver1980 on Dec 29, 2023 17:18:55 GMT -5
From a 2000s issue of Power Slam: ![](https://i.imgur.com/Twln2Ei.jpg) Glad to see SuperBrawl III listed! Anyone have a view?
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Post by Ricky Jackson on Dec 29, 2023 20:38:21 GMT -5
Holy hipster list, Batman!
Well, I was at Canadian Stampede live and it was indeed an amazing card and experience. I'll never forget it
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Post by commond on Dec 29, 2023 20:41:02 GMT -5
It looks like a tape trading list from 1996.
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Post by codystarbuck on Dec 29, 2023 21:54:15 GMT -5
I had Super J Cup '94 and When Worlds Collide, which were both awesome, though the finale of WWC, with Konnan vs Perro Aguayo, in a cage, wasn't my cup of tea (even with Cien Caras running in to stop Konnan from getting out of the cage.
Super J Cup does include those greats, but also the not nearly as great El Samurai and Masayoshi Motegi. Technically, both are/were fine; but, they are really outshined by the bulk of the rest of the crew. Both were ivolved in this and the J-Crown, though in putting other people over. I never quite understood why Motegi was involved, as he worked smaller independents and didn't seem to be THAT big of a deal, in Japan, unless there was some cult following I have never stumbled across in coverage of Japan, of the era. El Samurai was a New Japan regular, so I get him; just not Motegi, unless it was to fill numbers.
The rest of the first Super J Cup you have, aside from Liger and Sasuke, Eddie Guerrero and Chris Benoit, you had Dean Malenko (New Japan, but he had also worked All Japan, with brother Joe), Gedo (WAR), Hayabusa (FMW), Ricky Fuji (FMW), Negro Casas (CMLL and, I believe, he was working for New Japan), Shinjiro Otani (NJPW), Super Delfin (Michinoku Pro) and Taka Michinoku (Michinoku Pro). So, the top NJPW junior talent, one of the WAR top guys, the boss and two of the top stars of Michinoku Pro (which was red hot, then), the top flyer and the next big one, from FMW (also still hot) and there is Motegi, from Social Progress Wrestling Federation. Maybe it was to throw a bone to the smaller indies, maybe Liger liked Motegi. His career was pretty much spent in the indies and at the fringes of the bigger promotions, with time in W*ING, Big Japan, IWA Japan and he was listed as with Wrestle Dream Factory, when he was in the J-Crown tournament, holding the NWA World Jr Heavyweight Championship, which was not the one from the main NWA promotions. The last "world junior heavyweight" championship was nelson's Royall's belt, which was one he had made and owned, which debuted in Crockett, then was showcased in matches in Knoxville-USA, and Atlantic Coast Pro Wrestling (which Royal promoted) then retired when he shut it down. rior to that, the last NWA-named junior title was the one held by Hector Guerrero, as Lazer Tron, in 1987, until he left the promotion.
At one point, you had three "NWA World Junior Heavyweight Champions": The Cobra (George Takano, in New Japan), Les Thornton, in Georgia and Southeastern/Continental (his own belt) and Hector Guerrero. I suppose, you could argue two, as Thornton's was called the WWF Lt Heavyweight Championship, after Black Saturday and he appeared on WWF tv with his belt. The Cobra had appeared in the WWF; but, only with the WWF Jr Hwt belt, which he also held (as had Tiger Mask, before him). Hector won a match to fill the vacancy, per Crockett's booking and that one was pretty much a JCP title, until Guerrero won it again, as Lazer Tron, then left.
Until 1979, there was only one NWA Junior Heavyweight Championship, largely booked out of Leroy McGuirk's territory, until Nelson Royal retired. Then, you end up with Steve Keirn winning a new one, in LA, but not recognized by other NWA territories, other than Florida and New Japan and it morphs into the NWA International Jr Hwt title, when Chavo Guerrero takes it to All-Japan. Ron Starr wins a new version, which continues with the NWA recognizing it as an NWA title, until Les Thornton drops it to Tiger Mask, in New Japan, in 1982. Then, Tiger Mask won the WWF Jr Hwt title and some of the NWA promoters stopped recognizing Tiger Mask as champion (or, to put it more accurately, he was wrestling there, and they wanted their own champion here, and started a new belt). Crockett started a new one, with Hector Guerrero, which passed to guys like Mike Davis and Denny Brown, which shows the value Crockett placed on it and it died in 1987. Nelson Royal came out of retirement, with a belt he had made and he wins a new version, in a Crockett match, then defends it in non-Crockette areas, like Continental and Knoxville-USA (for the Fullers, both times) and his own promotion. Motegi's seemed to originate with Wrestle Dream Factory.
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Post by codystarbuck on Dec 29, 2023 21:56:01 GMT -5
A Hulk Hogan biopic could be problematic. What if a director takes Hogan’s lies at face value? We’ll end up with a movie where Hogan wrestles at Wembley Stadium, misses out on the George Foreman Grill, and chats with Harley Race as the ring burns in the background. It’d be the most pathetic biopic ever - unless we get a director who knows Hogan’s lies, every one of them. Hogan's lies would make a more entertaining movie than the fiction that some Hollywood screenwriter and director would perpetuate. If they treated Brutus Beefcake like Chris Von Erich, I would applaud it.
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Post by commond on Dec 29, 2023 23:13:11 GMT -5
The J-Cup was created to embrace the explosion in Japanese indies in the early 90s. Motegi had been the W*ING Junior Heavyweight Champion for much of the promotion's existence. The group folded just a few weeks before the J-Cup tournament was held. For some reason, instead of joining FMW, IWA-Japan or WAR, Motegi went to work for Yoshiaki Yatsu's tiny Social Progressive Wrestling Federation promotion. I strongly suspect that Motegi was originally booked to represent W*ING since W*ING had an active juniors division at the time. He was also invited to participate in the 1994 Best of the Super Juniors tournament and was part of the Super Grade Jr. Heavyweight Tag League later that year. He eventually earned a shot at Liger's J-Crown title in '97. SPWF, for its part, got to book El Samurai in a one night juniors tournament where he went over Motegi in the final.
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Post by driver1980 on Dec 30, 2023 6:48:36 GMT -5
Some AEW-supporting trolls on Twitter (I refuse to call it X) are pathetic. One is claiming WWE is only doing international shows in order to compete with or imitate AEW. ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png) I guess I imagined the WWF going global years ago, what with tours of Australia (was the first one 1985 or 1986?), the UK, continental Europe, Africa, Asia, etc. Not to mention countless ideas for expansion in the East. The WWF/WWE was doing these things years before AEW existed. I saw a comment a while back from an AEW-supporting troll claiming that Edge is finally allowed to do the Spear right in AEW. What?! He’s been doing the Spear right for decades. I’m certain that the average fan of AEW is a decent, normal person capable of sensible discourse. But social media once again turns out to be the place where deluded people gather. Incidentally, I’m not saying WWE (or any promotion) hasn’t ever responded to the competition. I’m sure, say, World War 3 was WCW’s way of doing something akin to the Royal Rumble. I’m sure that the WWF was inspired by certain things ECW did. But WWE’s global ambitions are nothing to do with what AEW is doing, nor is Edge’s Spear better in AEW.
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Post by dbutler69 on Dec 30, 2023 9:16:33 GMT -5
I was watching a WCW Saturday Night from 1992, the first episode where Bill Watts took over, and he's made some rules changes. First, ramming a guy into the ring post (or top turnbuckle, I think) is an automatic DQ. A bit draconian, but okay, fine. Next, he's removing the [padding from the floor so it's just exposed concrete because the WCW wrestlers are "real man". Uh, okay. That effectively eliminates high spots onto the floor, I would think. Finally, you can't come off of the top turnbuckle or top rope and make contact with an opponent. What the hell? What would Superfly Snuka or Macho Man Savage think about that? Remember how I mentioned here a couple of days ago how the Superbrawl II match between Pillman and Liger for the Light Heavyweight championship was one of the most exciting matches I've ever seen? Well, that match could never have happened with these stupid new rules. No more Doomsday Bulldog from the Steriners, either. You've probably eliminated half the signature moves from the exciting light heavyweight division. Well, maybe not that bad, but still, does Watts think it's still 1979? It's 1992, dude, where have you been?
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Post by driver1980 on Dec 30, 2023 9:46:05 GMT -5
I believe some of it was him living in the past, and wanting to apply only what HE liked.
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Post by codystarbuck on Dec 30, 2023 11:52:44 GMT -5
I was watching a WCW Saturday Night from 1992, the first episode where Bill Watts took over, and he's made some rules changes. First, ramming a guy into the ring post (or top turnbuckle, I think) is an automatic DQ. A bit draconian, but okay, fine. Next, he's removing the [padding from the floor so it's just exposed concrete because the WCW wrestlers are "real man". Uh, okay. That effectively eliminates high spots onto the floor, I would think. Finally, you can't come off of the top turnbuckle or top rope and make contact with an opponent. What the hell? What would Superfly Snuka or Macho Man Savage think about that? Remember how I mentioned here a couple of days ago how the Superbrawl II match between Pillman and Liger for the Light Heavyweight championship was one of the most exciting matches I've ever seen? Well, that match could never have happened with these stupid new rules. No more Doomsday Bulldog from the Steriners, either. You've probably eliminated half the signature moves from the exciting light heavyweight division. Well, maybe not that bad, but still, does Watts think it's still 1979? It's 1992, dude, where have you been? Supposedly, what he was trying to do was to re-educate the fans to the idea of rules within a wrestling match, so that when they were broken, it was treated as a bigger deal. He felt they had strayed too far from matches having a set of rules, which were then used as plot points during a match, making the battles seem more real. It wasn't that he wanted them to look tougher, it was that he wanted a more realistic presentation. Mid-South was never a high flyer's territory, but WCW was more of a mix and Watts didn't care for that element. He had been quite successful with his formula and he tried to recreate it; but, it was a different audience. It didn't really matter, as he was too used to being the boss and shaping his company around his philosophy of wrestling. Here, he was running someone else's company and was at odds with Turner's corporate culture and wrestling was in a down period. It wasn't going to work. I don't think his ideas were necessarily bad, had he progressed to the point where then the rules start playing into the matches; but, he had bigger problems fighting with Turner's people and spoke his mind to a dirt sheet and promptly got himself fired for making statements that came across as racist, because he tried to make a point in a rather bad manner, ticked off Hank Aaron when it got to a wider audience and he pushed the board to fire him. It ended up being a beer fart in a whirlwind. Where he truly screwed up was in pushing his son as any kind of main eventer. He wasn't horrible in the ring, like George Gulas; but, he also wasn't remotely at a level where the audience saw him as a star and it was obvious what was going on, even to the casual fan. Watts had been away from wrestling too long and had his own version of ring rust and WCW had been a dysfunctional company from the moment Turner bought it. I don't entirely blame him, but he definitely had "vision problems."
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