Please pull us out of the 80s whenever you want, my friend. This is the place for all discussion.

I'm mildly intrigued by AEW, and it has a different flavour which is important. They need to. Otherwise we'll get Russo's Nitro, which was just Attitude-Lite, but without any of the fun.

It's coming to 'free' UK TV soon, so I will definitely make room in my schedule for it.

I haven't watched it. I have heard mixed things about their previous PPVs; some good matches, some really awful, low grade indy stuff. Jim Cornette, an ardent critic has reviewed the first tv show and has been positive about a lot of things, saying it looked good, they toned down some of the silliness from their pre-show PPVs; but, they still had massive logic gaps in a lot of things and Cornette brings up some very valid criticisms. The women's match had a 6ft+ monster jobbing to a small Japanese girl. In what universe does that make sense? A monster should not be jobbing to anyone until they have been built up as a world beater. First match should not have the monster go down, ever. Cornette ciets Awesome Kong vs Gail Kim, from TNA, as to how to do the same, correctly.

Their biggest problem is the lack of "stars." The only way they can succeed, long term, is to draw an audience that isn't watching the other product, or wrestling, period. That's what created the boom in the 80s and late 90s. Their biggest issue is stars and catering to internet fans of indy wrestling. That isn't a big enough audience. Also, much of their presentation isn't going to draw back as many lapsed fans.

Jericho is their biggest star; but, he looks out of shape and is now in his 40s and slowing down. he knows what he is doing; but, he isn't a Ric Flair caliber veteran. Cody Rhodes seems to be the smartest worker of the younger crowd and is one of the driving forces; but, there are some real questions about their booking philosophies for the company, vs him managing his own angles. Cody was a mid-card WWE star, with a legend for a father. That legacy helps; but, not to a casual audience, compared to the already faithful or lapsed fans. Cody is more likely to bring in the lapsed fans than the Young Bucks or Kenny Omega. I think Cody is definitely, right now, the face of the company, as far as a future. Jericho is the face, right now, to get attention; but, his future is more limited, due to age and his tendency to walk away for periods.

I think getting more polished wrestlers would help them compete; but, ROH guys are under contract, as are WWE. So, that means foreign talent. New Japan is going to do what is best for them, as they are already making inroads into America. Most of the Americans have worked for lesser Japanese promotions, like DDT. AAA would be good, except the current political climate makes getting work visas a hassle. Also, only a select few of the Americans have lucha experience to work with the Mexican stars.

They have a long way to go and are dependent on Tony Khan's father keeping his wallet open. Vince has deep reserves, a veteran infrastructure, experienced performers, and a training system for new talent. He's in for the long haul; it's AEW who has to prove they can hang better and longer than TNA/Impact, Ring of Honor, MLW or whatever.

According to whom?  I see this kind of clickbait on Youtube all of the time; most of it wild rumor r just plain fantasy.  If the Observer is talking about the possibility, then I would give it greater credence.  Looking at things, though, of the names on the thumbnail, the only ones that might mean something huge would be Rey Misterio and Rhonda Rousey.  They have major names for major demographics.  Physically, though, Rey is a shell of what he once was.  His knees have been repaired numerous times and the added steroid bulk he was carrying in the WWE was not good for his longevity.  Also, I wonder about psychologically, in relation to the death of Perro Aguayo Jr, in the match with Rey.  Rousey has a name from the UFC and is a draw for the WWE womens division.  I would call that one very iffy.

Daniel Brian (Brian Danielson), had to leave because of concussion issue and other injuries.  he's been cleared and has returned; but, given how sports doctors have a tendency to be marks, I wonder how healthy he might actually be.  The question then is, would any casual fan care?  They didn't turn out in droves when he was WWE champion, so why would they do it here?

Again, the key to success, long term, for AEW is to grab an audience that isn't watching, period.  The WWE is mostly a faithful audience.  the indies are a faithful audience.  problem is, the faith is pretty small.  They need a Hulk Hogan, a Ric Flair or a Steve Austin to excite people and get them to watch.  That's people who don't watch wrestling; but, have to watch this because it is exciting and groundbreaking.  I haven't seen or heard of anything like that.  WWE stars leaving to go to a rival doesn't mean much when they couldn't draw a casual audience with the biggest promotion in the world behind them.

Now, someone may step up to that role because they have finally hit upon a gimmick that will ignite the fans.  Hogan stumbled around rings for several years, before Rocky 3 made him well known and the AWA made him a major draw.  Then, Vince made him an American superhero against the evil Middle Easterner and lit the world on fire, also with the help of someone people legitimately hated, in Roddy Piper.  Austin had been developing but hadn't really found his voice.  he was getting there, as the Hollywood Blonds, with Brian Pillman, as his promos were starting to come alive.  They weren't Stone Cold levels though.  Even when he came to the WWF, it wasn't there.  Then he got the idea, shaved his head, amped up the texas drawl and just went for the throat with telling off authority (aided by the fact that many wanted to see Vince beat up or worse).

That is what AEW needs to be a challenger to the WWE.  People need a reason to tune in, beyond some indie guys and WWE mid-carders, doing the same matches that they do in front of 300 people.  One of the criticisms of their presentation is that they don't introduce the wrestlers to you.  A casual fan doesn't know from Kenny Omega.  They haven't established them as anything.  They have tried to present them as stars; but, assume the entire audience knows who they are.  Casual viewers aren't going to google this stuff and look them up on Youtube.  In Omega's case, that would work against him as they would see the stupid crap he did for DDT, like wrestling the 9 year-old girl, who never should have been allowed in a ring, for safety, who grew up to be the tiny woman who beet the 6 ft monster, yet no one knows who she is.


The fans create the stars, because they believe in the performer.  The Rock is a perfect example.  The WWF introduced him (as Rocky Maivia) as a star and told fans to cheer him.  They responded with "Rocky Sucks!" They kept pushing him down peoples throats and the boos got worse.  Finally, they threw in the towel and turned Rocky heel.  Then, it happened; Rocky referred to himself in the third person, as The Rock, and started cutting entertaining promos.  His work stepped up, too (though the people's elbow is a ludicrous finisher).  He grew and grew until he was one of the top three stars and one known outside of wrestling.  You can't start at the top.  You have to climb the mountain.

The difference in this war and the Monday Night War is that you only have one established and experienced promotion, the WWE.  AEW is just another indie with deeper pockets.  WCW was the only real challenge for the WWF, because it had extensive experience in promoting professional wrestling.  The top wrestling promotions didn't happen overnight.  The WWF didn't appear out of whole cloth.  Jess McMahon promoted boxing and wrestling.  His son, Vincent J McMahon promoted wrestling.  His son, Vincent K McMahon promotes wrestling. Their partners were long time promoters and wrestlers:  Toots Mondt, Bruno Sammartino, Gorilla Monsoon, Pat Patterson, etc.  WCW was an outgrowth of the Georgia and Mid-Atlantic promotions, which dated back to the 40s.  They were most competitive under Jim crockett, who was a second generation promoter.  Under him, with Dusty Rhodes booking, McMahon could draw in the South.  Crockett did huge business across the South, but hurt himself when he moved out of core markets, too early,  and ignored those core cities.  Chicago was fine, until the Road Warriors jobbed there, in their advertised home town, in a match they should have won and the fans wanted them to win.  they never drew in Chicago again.  LA and San Francisco were too expensive for the crowds they drew.  Better to build reserves in the core regions and slowly expand.  Crockett went a bit nuts and got bigger than his reserves.  he also started doing dumb things.

Right now, AEW is on par with the start up of TNA.  You have a money mark, a few major promotion cast offs/departures, and a lot of people who a general audience doesn't know.  TNA failed.  It was kept alive by a money mark throwing money down a hole to appease a starstruck daughter.  Tony Khan's father is in the same position, until this group starts drawing real money.  We really won't have an idea until they have been on tv for 6 months and have a few PPVs under their belt (promoted by tv) and probably not any real picture in under a year.

Here's the thing with Hogan, he spent several years in the southern territories (he's from tampa, FL and started in the Florida Territory), never amounting to much. he was bad in the ring, wasn't much of a promo and just wasn't really there. part of it was inexperience. He worked Florida, then left wrestling for a bit. Then, he and Ed Leslie (Brutus Beefcake) worked in Alabama as Terry and Ed Boulder. Then, when he was compared to Lou Ferrigno, they started calling him Terry "the Hulk" Boulder. He worked Knoxville and then in Georgia, as Sterling Golden. From there, Vince Sr brought him into the WWF and wanted him to be an Irishman, to appeal to Irish crowds in New York and Boston. Hogan worked as a heel, including the match at Shea Stadium, against Andre (which was conveniently forgotten, before Wrestlemania III). he started going to Japan, there, for Inoki, leading to their series of matches and Hogan started working his butt off, to keep up with Inoki. Meanwhile, Sylvester Stallone had spotted Hogan on a WWF tv show and thought he was perfect for Rocky 3, for Rocky to face a wrestler, in a charity fight. Vince Sr was against it, but, Hogan did it anyway. After the film, he went to the AWA, which was known as a good oney territory, with an easy schedule. the film came out and was a ht and he was memorable in it, which swelled attendance at the AWA shows. He was pitted against Nick Bockwinkel and Bobby Heenan; but, they kept the title off him. meanwhile, as Hogan says, verne wanted a cut of his Japan money (and for him to work with baba, instead of Inoki). Hogan refused. verne wouldn't put the belt on him. He was signed to work the first Starrcade, in 1983 and no-showed, going to the WWF and the rest was history.

By that point, Hogan had learned to work and found a style, based on the Thunderlips character and stuff he learned from hsi managers in the WWF (Blassie), as well as Heenan and Bockwinkel. Vince Jr loved muscle guys and made Hogan his American superhero. then he used the Bruno formula to feed him opponents to plow through, always coming out strong, until he went off to Hollywood (and tanked). The cable expansion helped them tremendously as WWF programming was everywhere, on local tv, syndicated and several cable slots. MTV gave things massive exposure, which was the desired result. It started with Cyndi lauper and Lou Albano and ended up with Wrestlemania, exposing Hogan and Piper to a national audience.

Hogan had the charisma and star power and was kept strong. problem was, the formula grew stale and the fad wore off. When the curious left, we were stuck with the same old Hogan and no new and exciting opponents. Past opponents had been devalued, and Hogan got lazy. He became more interested in Hollywood offers, doing one bad movie after another. Meanwhile, Jesse Ventura and Roddy Piper got the good movies.

Hogan created a ton of fans; but, a lot of them moved on, later. When Hogn returned from Hollywood, the bloom was off and never really returned. Problem is, they hadn't groomed a successor, which led to experiments with Savage and Warrior.

I didn't see it; but, the word was, when Hogan was in TNA, it was obvious that he was physically shot.  The knees are really bad, he's had back surgery and just age.  They'd really have to get creative to work around that limited a Hogan.  Vs McMahon is another story.  It makes more logical sense, though Vince is as old, if not older and the 'roids probably aren't doing him any favors, at this stage of life.  Here, though, they can depend more on psychology.  With Cena, Cena would really need to change up his act.

Hogan was great up to dropping the title to go to Hollywood and never recovered it.  Now, personally, I was tired of his act by 1985.  WWF undercards were horrible and Hogan's matches were short.  meanwhile, I'm watching some Crockett and Mid-South, plus the AWA on ESPN.  Way more exciting main events and better undercards.  Vince's tv show had the better look; but the other guys had better workers.  For the WWF, I would watch the Harts and Bulldogs and maybe other tag matches (Killer Bees, Rougeaus), depending on opponents.

By 85, I saw the formula of Hogan's matches and could predict them.  With Flair, I could predict which spots he would use; but, the match would still be entertaining.

My dream match is Hogan doing a proper job for Flair, to return the favor.  He did the one match, where Flair tried to do a double turn and had won the belt; but, I wasn't a fan of the match.  Problem is, Flair has no business setting foot in the ring except to cut a promo, with his health issues.  I would have liked to have seen one more Flair vs Steamboat, when Steamboat made his brief comeback, in the Jericho angle.  Probably would have been safer for him, too.

I'll tell you, the one legends match I ever saw that blew me away was at the inaugural WCW Slamboree, with Dory Funk Jr vs Nick Bockwinkel.  No high spots, just two workers doing mat wrestling.  No heeling, just a competitive match.  That was artistry. 

Hogan and Bischoff were total morons in TNA. Sorry about that.

Just a thought, I don't really watch UFC, but I do follow UFC news. If anyone has any UFC views, or MMA views, then I don't see any problem in posting within this topic (after all, the Wrestling Observer covers both!).