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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 10, 2019 15:02:56 GMT -5
I watched for a while, and grapplers dominated. Then the political issues came in and it was harder for them to do the PPVs. I had stopped watching long before Dana White days. I also watch a few of the others, like the Extreme Fighting Championships, the World Combat Championship, Pancrase and Pride. I later got my hands on Choke, a documentary about Rickson Gracie fighting in the Japan Vale Tudo (organized by Satoru "Tiger Mask" Sayama). XFC had a few moments, but similar mismatches as UFC. World Combat Championship had a striker and a grappler division. Strikers couldn't use submissions in their fights, but grapplers could. The final had striker winner, former IBF Cruiserweight champion James Warring, against grappler champion Renzo Gracie, who beat him easily. This tournament also exposed bullshido artist Bart Vale, who promoted himself as the World Shootfighting Champion, with the old Fujiwara Gumi belt (Fujiwara dropped it to him in a worked fight that Vale promoted, in Florida), as he had trouble deafting a kid with no real submission or fighting experience. Later, Vale fought in the XFC and got his ass handed to him by Kazunari Murikami, another pro wrestler.
Pancrase and Pride were the best. Pancrase was about as close as you got to real pro wrestling, with stars like Ken Shamrock, Frank Shamrock, Guy Metzger, Maurice Smith, Bas Ruten, Minoru Suzuki, Masakatsu Funaki, and Semmy Schilt.
Pride had terrific fights, with a lot more submission experts than were fighting in the UFC. At the time, Pride was the better fight promotion, until a scandal over yakuza involvement killed their tv deal. The Yakuza were involved in a fight promotions in Japan, including All Japan and New Japan Wrestling, as well as most industry.
The 60 minute fight between Kazushi Sakuraba and Royce Gracie is amazing.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2019 15:31:33 GMT -5
I have UFC I & II on a double-DVD set. I have dipped in over the years. Many wrestling magazines here covered UFC so I followed in that sense. When a wrestler would appear at a UFC event, I became interested. I certainly remember UWFI. Did that have any link to the UWF you mentioned? UWFI did air in the UK but I think they renamed it for a British audience. And what about Kama the Supreme Fighting Machine?  |
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 10, 2019 18:02:26 GMT -5
Here is the shoot wrestling geneology, in Japan. Karl Gotch worked for New Japan, working with Inoki and then became a trainer with the New Japan dojo, teaching submission grappling. Gotch was a Belgian, named Charles Isatz, born of a Hungarian father and German mother. he participated in greco-Roman wrestling and represented Belgium in the 1948 Olympics, in Greco-Roman and freestyle. He also studied Indian Pehlwani wrestling. he went to England and trained at the Wiggan Snakepit, with trainer Billy Riley (who also trained Billy Robinson and Dynamite Kid). He worked in England and Europe, then the US and Japan.
Many of Gotch's trainees were itching to do a more realistic style of pro wrestling than Inoki was presenting. Also, Tiger Mask was the biggest draw in the company, while Inoki kept himself on top. Finally, a group, including Tiger Mask and Akira Maeda, Yoshiaki Fujiwara, Rusher Kimura, Kazuo Yamazaki, Gran Hamada, and Nobuhiko Takada left NJPW. They formed the first Universal Wrestling federation, the original shoot wrestling promotion. They set the Japanese wrestling world on fire, with clean wins, more realistic maneuvers, submissions, and martial arts striking. They were on the cusp of becoming the top promotion in japan. then, a political fight broke out between the submission afficianadoes and the strikers, in the persons of Satoru Sayama (Tiger Mask) and Akira Maeda. Tensions built to a match where Maeda hit Sayama with a low kick to the groin. There was a fight over leadership and Sayama left. Then, a financial scandal shut the UWF down.
Many of the performers went back to New Japan and did the first invasion angle, with the UWF guys vs new Japan, with new Japan winning. The breakaways were punished, then rehabilitated. This was around 1984.
A few years later, in 1988, many of these wrestlers left again, in a dispute and created a new UWF, known as Newborn UWF. Maeda, who had major heat with new Japan management was one of the instigators and his people followed. The company ran until about 1990. Fujiwara was allowed to join them and brought proteges Masakatsu Funaki and Minoru Suzuki. They introduced top rookie Kiyoshi Tamura. The downturn in the Japanese economy and an oversaturation of breakoff promotions led to the company closing. That led to the seeding of the shoot promotions that would feed into the UFC and Pride.
Fujiwara started Pro Wrestling Fujiwara Gumi, which ran from 1991-1996. His stars included proteges Funaki and Suzuki, Shoichi Funaki and foreign recruits Ken Shamrock, Joe Malenko (Dean's older brother), Mark Starr (brother of Chris Champion, of the New Breed), Jerry Flynn (future WCW performer) and Bart Vale (a kickboxer). Malenko was the conduit for the Americans, as his father's school had ties to Fujiwara. Ken Shamrock was wrestling for Nelson Royal's Atlantic Coast Wrestling, then George Scott and Paul Jones' NAWA/SAPW promotion in the Carolinas, as Vince Torelli (where he had his infamous fight with the Nasty Boys, where Saggs beat the snot out of him). Vale was a kickboxer. In 1993, Funaki, Suzuki and Shamrock broke away from Fujiwara to create the first legitimate shoot promotion, Pancrase (named after the Greek mma pankration). Fujiwara floundered and limped along until it shut down in 1996, where most of the remaining performers went off and formed the Battlearts promotion. Bart Vale returned to the US and suckered Sports Illustrated into doing a piece about him and the deadly art of shootfighting, then promoted a card, in Florida, where Fujiwara dropped the PWFG title to Vale, in a worked fight. Vale used that to market his school and videos, leading to his later participation in the World Combat Championships.
Pancrase began with legit fights (and some worked undercards). Shamrock won the tournament to crown the first King of Pancrase. His Lion's Den dojo helped bring over Maurice Smith, Guy Mezger, Jason Delucia, Vernon White and others. Dutch kickboxer Bas Rutten was recruited and was a knockout artist, though he fared poorly against Shamrock and Funaki, who were submission experts (Rutten eventually learned submission defense and offense and dominated Pancrase). Shamrock and Funaki were the top stars, with Rutten and Suzuki at the next level. This led to Shamrock participating in the UFC. rt Davies, who promoted the early UFC, also put some of the Pancrase cards on PPV. Shamrock left to fight in the UFC regularly, then the WWF, before returning to Japan to fight for Pride. Adopted brother Frank became King of Pancrase, later, then fought in the UFC and several rival MMA promotions. Rutten also fought UFC and became a commentator. Mezger also became King of Pancrase, as did Funaki and Suzuki (Suzuki defeated Ken Shamrock in a worked fight, when Shamrock went full time with UFC).
Meanwhile, when Newborn UWF failed, Akira Maeda started the RINGS promotion, featuring Kimura and Russian sambo specialist Volk Han. However, RINGS did worked fights, until the rise of the UFC. They started to mix shoot fights, then went all shoot (which exposed guys like Kimura and Han). They shut down in 2002, after competition from Pride and UFC killed their luster.
Sayama did not participate in newborn UWF but, did create Shooto, a style of submission wrestling with both an amateur and a professional branch. It grew in popularity and the professional division produced such fighters as Asian/Hawaiian brothers Enson and Egon Inoue, Eric Paulsen (who fought in WCC) and Yuki Nakai. Sayama also promoted Vale tudo Japan, from 1994-1999. The first two were won by Rickson Gracie (the best fighter of Helio's family, though cousin Renzo was probably the best real fighter, in non-family mandated rules). Later ones saw participation by Frank Shamrock and Enson inoue.
Back to 1991 and the last spinoff of Newborn UWF. Nobuhiko Takada formed the UWFI (Union of Wrestling Force International). This quickly became the hottest shoot promotion in Japan, with Takada and Tamura as top stars, before Timura left for RINGS. They were endorsed by Lou Thesz, who lent them his world title belt to use as their championship. They recruited American wresters with amateur backgrounds, including Pez Whatley and bob backlund. Takada drew major crowds. The UWFI also promoted Shoot Wrestling-branded PPVs, when the UFC was a hit, featuring Lou Duva and Jim Dugan arguing about boxing vs wrestling, before champion Gary Albright (who was also a star in All-Japan), says the best is shoot wrestling....
Vader also joined the group and became their champion. By 1995, the UWFI wasn't drawing as well and they brokered a co-promotion deal with New Japan, leading to the UWFI vs New Japan series, which drew record crowds to baseball stadiums and the Tokyo Dome. Takada defeated the Greta Muta for the IWGP title, before eventually losing it to Shinya Hashimoto, where New Japan emerged triumphant. UWFI then tried to co-promote with the WAR promotion, to lesser success and closed its doors in 1996
Battlearts, the remnants of PWFG, lasted from 1996-2001, asa regular promotion, then from 2002-2011, co-promoting with others. Its biggest success was a cross-promotion with Great sasuke's Michinoku Pro lucha-style promotion. It's top stars were Alexander Otsuka, Carl Greco (aka Carl Malenko), Joe Malenko, Daisuke Ikeda, Taka Michinoku, So Funaki, and Muhammad Yone. The Road Warriors worked some shows for them, as did a young Jeff Hardy (as Willow the Wisp).
When UWFI Folded, some of its remnants formed Kingdom, which lasted from 1997-98, with Kazushi Sakuraba the biggest name to emerge from them.
Takaa created a new promotion, HUSTLE, which lasted from 2004-2009. It mostly consisted of his Takada Dojo guys and some of Ultimo Dragon's Toryumon students.
Pride was pretty much the final nail in the coffin for the shot promotions, except Pancrase and Shooto, which are still running. Pride began in 1997, to much fanfare. it involved many of the former shoot stars, like Takada, and many UFC fighters, like Ken Shamrock, Gary Goodridge, and Royce Gracie. Their first ard grew out of the Vale Tudo Japan, with the dream match of Takada vs Rickson Gracie. The event drew 47,000 to the Tokyo Dome, where Gracie defeated Takada. He defeated him again in a rematch, in 1998. Takadas only wins were in obviously worked fights, including victories over UFC champion Mark Coleman and Gary Goodridge. The Pride Grand Prix was a tournament set up in 2000, with Royce Gracie, Kazushi Sakuraba, Igor Vovchanchyn, Guy Mezger, Mark Coleman, Alexander Otsuka, Gary Goodridge, Masaaki Satake,Akira Shoji, Ebenezer Fontes Braga, Mark Kerr, Enson Inoue, Kazuyuki Fujita and Hans Nijman. Royce Gracie had special stipulations for all of his matches, saying the ref could not stop it and it had unlimited rounds. the Gracies complained about a previous ref stoppage when Sakuraba defeated younger brother Royler with a Kimura arm lock, when the ref stopped the fight. Sakuraba had also defeated Renzo Gracie (also with a Kimura, visibly dislocating his elbow) and was being promoted as the Gracie Hunter.
Gracie defeated Takada, while Sakuraba defeated Mezger to advance to the next round. Also advancing were Vovchanchyn, Goodrige, Coleman, Shoji, Kerr and Fujita. Vovchanchyn defeated Goodridge, Coleman beat Shoji and Fijitaki defeated Kerr, in an upset. Kerr would then enter rehab for drug and steroid addiction. Gracie and Sakuraba faced each other in a 90 minute, round (15 min each) fight, that saw Gracie completely on the defensive, being flummoxed by Sakuraba's unorthodox style.
Rorion Gracie threw in the towel when Royce could no longer stand on his battered legs. Sakuraba got a bit of rest, then had to go face Vovchanchyn on the same night! he was competitive for a round, before his corner threw in the towel, as he was exhausted. Having fought for 100 minutes, by that point. Coleman faced Vovchanchyn in the finals and defeated him.
Kerr's saga can be seen in the documentary, The Smashing Machine, detailing his UFC win, his previous Pride fights and his realization that his use of painkillers has gotten out of hand (steroids, too). It is a powerful piece of film...
This is Choke, about Rickson Gracie and the first Vale Tudo Japan...
Rickson is the man seen teaching yoga-style techniques to Bruce Banner, in The Incredible Hulk.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2019 4:12:31 GMT -5
I have no idea how long it took you to type all that, but THANKS. I only had vague recollections of everything, and I could not have typed a history out if I'd tried. So I'm really pleased with all that.
Coverage of the likes of the UWFI was sporadic in wrestling publications while, occasionally, a satellite channel over here would show it. My knowledge of its history was a limited one.
Oh, and I think Russo mentioned MMA once, something along the lines of, "Why would I watch a fake fight when I can watch a real one?" He was obviously asking why would people watch WWE when there's the likes of the UFC. Such a misunderstanding of things. Not the perfect analogy, but I'd watch fake fights for the same reason I'd watch Jurassic Park while also watching documentaries about dinosaurs. Fake and real can go together.
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 11, 2019 10:55:56 GMT -5
Shamrock vs Severn 2 was the perfect illustration of why pro wrestling is worked. It was 30 minutes of defense, followed by one punch that drew some blood and Severn declared winner. People don't watch Olympic wrestling, in this country, because it consists of jockeying for position on the mat, with long stalemates. Pro wrestling is a jazzed up fight to make it exciting. Same with boxing. Real fights don't last that long, usually. Russo wouldn't know, as he never had a real fight in his life.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2019 11:24:09 GMT -5
Well said!
I have watched Olympic wrestling on BBC. I respect the skill-set of the athletes, but it's not entertaining for me. The jockeying for position, and the long stalemates, as you described them, are not for me. That is why I like pro wrestling.
I can't remember where I read it, but I read about how, before wrestling became a work, there were matches that would go for an eternity - with fans bored. Speeding that up and creating a showbiz-style of wrestling match, which was often 30 minutes or less, is what I appreciate.
Russo did come up with an absurd statement in a shoot interview about reality in wrestling. He said something about how you can see the Iraq War on TV, so what can wrestling offer that news can't? Ludicrous! Escapism for starters! That would be like someone saying, "Why watch a film with animals in when you can see footage from a zoo?" Russo just didn't grasp certain things.
I also feel he had a short attention span. It may have been the same interview, but he talked about how, when a match starts, people are already wanting it to end - or thinking about switching channels. Not me! Not most fans! When Marty Jannetty and Shawn Michaels began their match (May 1993) for the I-C Title, me, with my longer attention span than Russo, was definitely in it for the long haul.
And I accept the escapism aspects of wrestling. What fan doesn't? It's like a magic show. Deep down, I know that Paul Daniels never really made things disappear, but I enjoyed the spectacle of it all.
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 11, 2019 21:47:30 GMT -5
Pro wrestling in the US has always been a work; but, they ha matches that went for hours, in the days of Strangler Lewis. With the advent of tv, things became more and more jazzed up.
Same is true in other sports. Basketball added the shot clock to force teams to work for a basket quicker. Football added things like the forward pass to avance down the field. Baseball sweetened up the ball tio make it fly further.
Golf should add minefields and other hazards. Otherwise, it is like watching paint dry.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2019 23:40:54 GMT -5
Golf should add minefields and other hazards. Otherwise, it is like watching paint dry. Golf is the most boring sport that I know, they need to spice it up badly. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2019 6:23:22 GMT -5
Hey!  I like golf. Don't say that. *Takes jacket off and puts boxing gloves on* Still want to say what you did, guys? Golf had some rule changes from the beginning of the year, one of them being that the time taken to search for a ball is now down from five minutes to three. It's Rule 18.2a but you both knew that, of course! I have played golf, but not for a while. I do follow it. There's constant discussion of how to speed up the game, so we're working on it. Oh, and there are also some who want golfers to be able to wear shorts during tournaments. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 12, 2019 6:42:55 GMT -5
Hey! I like golf. Don't say that. *Takes jacket off and puts boxing gloves on* Still want to say what you did, guys? Golf had some rule changes from the beginning of the year, one of them being that the time taken to search for a ball is now down from five minutes to three. It's Rule 18.2a but you both knew that, of course! I have played golf, but not for a while. I do follow it. There's constant discussion of how to speed up the game, so we're working on it. Oh, and there are also some who want golfers to be able to wear shorts during tournaments. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2019 7:57:56 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2019 9:13:10 GMT -5
I've often talked about Hulk Hogan, both the fact that he got me into US wrestling and the fact that I can be impartial about him and the negative aspects of his career.
During Hogan's WCW tenure, WCW presented 67 PPV events. During Hogan's 1994-2000 run, he was top dog. He was hyped. During the first few PPVs of his run, the announcers would talk about Hogan even when announcing non-Hogan matches. He got paid a lot, he did well financially, etc. I don't begrudge him that (never did), but one has to ask about what he brought to the table during that run. There's no doubt he attracted a lot of fans initially, whether they be lapsed Hogan fans or WWF fans who switched over to WCW to see how the Hulkster would fare.
Sometimes the hype was to the detriment of other wrestlers, e.g. the examples of announcers talking about Hogan almost non-stop while commentating during other matches. By 1998-2000, Hogan should have been willing to pass the torch and make the transition to being more of a "special attraction".
Anyway, like I stated earlier, during Hogan's run, WCW presented 67 PPV events, starting with his debut at Bash at the Beach 1994 and culminating with Bash at the Beach 2000 (the Hogan/Russo nonsense).
Out of those 67 PPV events, Hogan wrestled at 44 of them. You can, if you wish, count 42 because one appearance (Halloween Havoc '99) saw Hogan lay down for Sting in a match lasting 3 seconds while the Bash at the Beach 2000 'match' was a farce, too. For pedantic reasons, though, that's 44 appearances out of the 67 presented.
Of those 44 appearances, Hogan defended the WCW World Heavyweight Championship at 15 PPVs. Yes, 15 times. At other PPV events, he wrestled in non-title matches. It was a non-title match against Piper at Starrcade 1996; over a year earlier, he had faced Vader in a strap match at Uncensored 1995, but the WCW World Heavyweight Championship was not on the line. Then there is the fact that while holding the gold, other PPV events saw him in tag team matches, War Games, etc. And, of course, there's the PPVs where he wasn't in possession of the world title, e.g. Superbrawl 2000.
Ultimately, this is all meaningless. This is just a Hulkamaniac having fun. But stats can be interesting. Given the hype for Hogan during his run, and the money spent on him, well draw your own conclusions. There were 23 PPVs he could have appeared at during his run, but which he didn't. Draw your own conclusions whether 44 out of a possible 67 represents value for money. True, he would not have received a percentage of the PPVs he didn't appear at, but they were paying him big bucks. Personally, I would have liked to have seen him at every PPV, but that's just me.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2019 10:19:01 GMT -5
Thanks for posting this ...  |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2019 13:08:01 GMT -5
I watched The Spectacular Legacy of the AWA on the Network last night.
I knew a little about the AWA, but had seen little. Some videotapes probably made their way to the UK years ago. And I was aware of some of the history, but this compelling and well-produced documentary filled in all the gaps for me.
What did I learn? Well, firstly, I admire Verne Gagne for his persistence - and what he did over time. That guy seemed like he never knew when to throw in the towel. It was also interesting to see a "prototype" Hulk Hogan. The AWA certainly lost a lot of big stars to the WWF, didn't they? Oh, and Hogan was playing hardball even back then (merchandising profits). There was also mention of the AWA trying to arrange a Saturday night special on CBS, but that fell through.
The documentary had be thinking about "What if?" The AWA did lose a lot of talent to the WWF. How different would US wrestling have been if that hadn't happened? It's hard to say.
But there was a consensus among many on the documentary that the AWA failed to move with the times. Perhaps the writing was always on the wall. I know the history of how the WWF "poached" a lot of stars from various territories, but at the same time, would the AWA have lasted forever? That said, it does seem a shame that the AWA lost a lot of stars (the documentary mentioned that only Bobby Heenan saw out his contractual commitments).
So, did the AWA fail to move with the times? How different would US wrestling history have been if the AWA had been more successful? We won't know until we find a way to visit parallel universes.
There was some great footage in the documentary from Eric Bischoff announcing to the Kerry Von Erich/Jerry Lawler match (SuperClash III).
It was interesting to see so many "prototypes", though. Not just Hogan perfecting his act, but others such as Jesse Ventura, Gene Okerlund, Bobby Heenan, etc. It almost feels like AWA was a "feeder league" for the WWF.
On a final note, I found it quite emotional, seeing Verne Gagne inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame. Based on what I have learnt, his contributions should not be understated.
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 12, 2019 19:18:32 GMT -5
The documentary was decent but really only scratched the surface (as these things tend to do, as the length and the WWE Spin affect the story). It really undersells how big the AWA was before 1984. It has a lot of similarities to the WWF, in it's territorial base. Both were built around big cards in major cities, with shorter travelling schedules. The WWF made it's money on New York (MSG), Philadelphia (the Spectrum), Boston (Boston Gardens), Pittsburgh, and a few other major population centers. It also had greater access to New York based media.
The AWA also consisted mostly of a lighter schedule, with large population centers. They had Minneapolis, Chicago (Verne co=promoted it with Dick the Bruiser & Wilbur Snyder), Salt Lake City, Denver, Winnipeg, and San Francisco (after the Shires promotion went under), plus smaller shows sprinkled in there. Here in Illinois they did big business in Chicago and Rockford. Their schedule was pretty easy and the wrestlers liked it, though few hung around for the winters.
The AWA was big on presentation as a legit sport, based of Verne's own history. He was a top amateur and an Olympian, before becoming a pro and was a huge draw in the Midwest, during the Dumont era. He was made the US Champion, which was the number 2 spot, legit, as he would tour other promotions with the title. He bought into Minnesota and had a piece of Omaha and St Louis. The AWA did major business through the 60s and 70s, promoting a lot of former amateurs or guys with athletic credentials. Most of its stars had been top amateurs, like Mad Dog Vachon, The Destroyer (Dick Beyer, who also wrestled as Dr X), Bill Miller, Baron Von Raschke, Brad Rheingans, etc. Ironically, he also used a lot of wild brawlers, like Dick the Bruiser (legit NFL), the Crusher, Mad Dog (he went to the Olympics; but, tended to brawl, as a gimmick), etc. Verne like the contrast between scientific wrestling and brawling, as it showed that legit wrestling could beat all comers. Verne was heavily involved in amateur wrestling fundraising and promoting amateur wrestling to schools, youth groups and elsewhere. It helped add credibility to his product. Even his heels were top mat wrestlers, like Nick Bockwinkel, Sheik Adnan al Kaisey and the like.
Verne was also a top trainer and a lot of stars came out of his wrestling camps: Ric Flair, Ken Patera, Ricky Steamboat, Sgt Slaughter, Iron Sheik, Don Muraco, Jim Brunzell, Blackjack lanza, Bill Irwin (aka The Goon), Playboy Buddy Rose, Jesse Ventura, and Bob Backlund.
The real glory period for the AWA was mid/late 60s-mid 70s; but, they were on fire in the early 80s. Ventura and Adrian Adonis had been through there as the East-West Connection, feuding with the High Flyers, Greg Gagne and Jim Brunzell, Verne and Bockwinkel had their feud and Bockwinkel transitioned to wrestling Hogan, who was a big name, when he arrived. AWA fans loved the battles between Hogan and Bockwinkel, especially with heenan in the mix. Heenan drew more money than anyone, as fans loved to pay their money to see him get beat. Also, with the exception of Ray Stevens, he was the best bumper in the business. He was managing Bock, who was champion, and Bock & Stevens, as tag champions. They were heat magnets.
McMahon actually approached Verne about buying out the AWA; but the Gagne's found the figure insulting. They countered with a merger, at one point (according to Greg, in the Back to the Territories video on the AWA, with Jim Cornette). Instead, McMahon offered Hogan a ton of money to jump (plus merchandising and continued trips to Japan, for another year). Then, he raided one of their top heels, Dave Schultz (the guy who slapped John Stossel, on a 20/20 piece), announcer Gene Okerlund, then Bobby Heenan. Verne was gutted, as his top babyface, one of his top heels and his top manager (and draw) were all gone, plus his announcer. Jim Brunzell soon followed, leaving Greg to flounder, as a solo. Verne was left with Bockwinkel, his son and an old crew. He tried to counter by bringing in foreign talent, with a title switch with All-Japan star Jumbo Tsuruta, then put the belt on Rick Martel. Martel was a charismatic babyface; but, wasn't a big enough draw and needed better opponents.
Verne got a break when he signed the Road Warriors, after their initial stint in georgia. they were both Minnesota boys (not Chicago) and wanted to come home for a bit. They were pushed as monsters and quickly got over, with fans. However, they were getting offers from everyone and were splitting their time between All-Japan and the AWA, plus touring for other promotions.
Verne had a problem working with other promoters (and vice versa, as most didn't trust each other, for good reason). He had an association with Jerry Jarrett, in memphis, which brought Bockwinkel in regularly to feaud with Lawler and Dundee and a few others. He also brought the Fabulous ones into the AWA circuit to feud with the Road Warriors. That drew money. However, the Fabs didn't like they way they were treated by Verne and went back to memphis. When McMahon was raiding talent, a group of promoters got together to do united cards, under the name Pro Wrestling USA. The group included the AWA, Crockett, Memphis, Kansas City and worked with Dallas, though they mostly stayed out of it. Crockett turned around and tried to recruit talent away, especially the Road Warriors, who ended up leaving to work for Crockett (word was Verne was doing the same thing). Jarrett couldn't convince erne to give Lawler a run with the AWA belt, which they considered the final component needed to cement his status in Memphis and mostly stopped booking the champion there and worked with crockett on some cross promotions (which didn't go over as well). Eventually, Pro Wrestling USA just became another AWA tv show.
Verne wasn't willing to move with the times. His tb presentation hadn't changed since the 70s. It was the same interview in front of a backdrop, same ring set-up, same lack of graphics and standard lighting. Camera work was from a distance, outside the ring. It was old school and it looked it. It had a studio show, then also presented some arena-style shows, like the ESPN show. He did bring in young talent and psuhed them, as Scott Hall and Curt Hennig worked as a tag team (and Hennig was pushed as a single, eventually becoming a heel and their champion). Shawn Michaels and Marty Janetty were brought in to be their Rock N Roll Express tag-team, as the Midnight Rockers (swiping from the Midnight Express, too). However, as soon as anyone was becoming a draw, they headed to New York, for more money and exposure. The Rockers signed with the WWF, while they still held the AWA tag titles, necessitating a quick change. After they were fired from their first stint in the WWF, they ended up in memphis, then were booked into the AWA, again.
Curt hennig leaving was probably the final nail in the coffin. he had wrestled in the WWF, as a rookie, on the undercard, and in Portland, before coming to the AWA, where his father Larry "the Axe" Hennig was a legend. They built him as a tag wrestler, with Scott Hall, then as a single, having him defeat Bockwinkel for the title. He held the title for a year, before dropping the title to Jerry Lawler, in Memphis, on his way out to the WWF.
Verne was desperate enough to finally book Lawler as his champion. He never really saw Lawler as a World Champion, or much of a draw, outside of Memphis (with some evidence to back that up). Lawler and Dundee had already been AWA tag-champs, with switches in memphis and elsewhere. Verne had no other draws and went with Lawler, as he at least had a big name in memphis, plus a ton of exposure in the magazines. He hoped that might counter Hogan and Flair. Problem was, Lawler was part owner of Memphis and remained tied to it. Meanwhile, the Von Erich boys were ready to sell off and brokered a deal with Jarrett, which led to the Super Clash II bout. verne figured it would boost his attendance, so he promoted Jarrett's match, in his territory. However, the crowd was way too small and the PPV didn't draw well. Also, Kerry Von Erich was messed up. According to Lawler, Kerry was hopped up on pills (and possibly more) and was playing with his blade, in the locker room and badly cut himself. He was supposed to juice in the match and lose the title on a ref stoppage, which was allowed under World Class rules. he was fiddling with tape on his wound and bled early, before the spot was intended. They did not have a great match, as Kerry was wearing a prosthetic, at the time, limiting his mobility (though he compensated amazingly well) and Lawler was having issues working with Kerry.
The PPV proved to be the last straw. Verne stiffed Lawler on the payoff, claiming there was no profit and Lawler kept the belt. Verne announced they had stripped Lawler and it was put up in a battle royal, won by Larry Zbysko (Verne's son-in-law). Zbysko was past his prime and never drew after the feud with Bruno. He swapped the title with Masa Saito, in Japan and was the champ when they folded.
For all of his faults, Verne never really pushed Greg beyond his standing and ability. Greg was mostly in tag matches and the mid-card, as a babyface. The did create the AWA International Television title for him, which he defended against Ronnie Garvin, who beat him for the title. He also made good use of a women's title, with wrestlers like Candi Devine, Sherri Martel and Medusa Micelli. Wendy Richter also came through, for a time. Diamond Dallas Paige (DDP) cut his teeth there as a manager (as well as manager/announcer in Florida) before ending up in WCW, as a manager and then wrestler. Verne put on decent tag matches and had guys like Badd Company (Pat Tanaka and Paul Diamond), the Guerreros (Mando and Chavo), the Rockers, the Rock N Roll RPMs, Buddy Rose & Doug Sommers, and even the Rock N Roll Express did some shows for them, after leaving Crockett.
Eric Bischoff was a sales guy, at the tv station and ended up as a junior announcer, which led to him working for WCW, after the AWA went under. He talked about (which is always questionable) Verne basically folding because he lost a piece of valuable property in an eminent domain case, which he had been using as collateral on loans to keep the promotion going.
Verne's biggest issues were inability to keep young talent, once they were becoming stars, old school presentation, an aging fan base (and performers), poor promotion (bad video packages, lack of cross promotion), late to the PPV game, bad payoffs, and inability to work with other promotions for long. On the plus side, he was great at spotting and developing talent, he maintained a more realistic mystique to his promotion, he put on good matches, and he lent a legitimacy to his product. If he could ave had a booker like Dusty and technical presentation like McMahon, his company might still be around. As it was, he stuck it out until 1990, which was way longer than most of the other territories.
Verne was targeted by McMahon; mainly because he was vulnerable and had top tv locations and arenas. Vince went after large markets, like St Louis, Minneapolis, Denver, San Francisco, Houston, Atlanta, etc. he didn't want the territories; just their biggest cities. He bought time on their stations and lured away their talent. Really, though, the AWA held strong, until about 1987, then they started a rapid decline. So, they fought the good fight for about 3 years, before it started to collapse.
The matches on the AWA dvd that Vince put out were good; but, there was so much better footage that was left off. He ignored the High Flyers, so none of their matches; not a lot of classic Verne or Bockwinkel, the Road Warriors vs the Fabs, Martel (who had great matches with Bockwinkel and a killer title vs title match, with Flair, in All-Japan), Crusher Jerry Blackwell, young Flair & Steamboat, Alfred Hayes as a heel manager (with Sgt Slaughter, under a mask, as one of the Super Destroyers) or much of anything before the 80s.
If you've never seen it, watch the 1970s movie, The Wrestler, with Ed Asner as a promoter and verne as an aging World Champion. It was done with Verne and the AWA and has some great matches (Billy Robinson against Bockwinkel and Gagne) and features bruiser & Crusher, Dusty Rhodes & Dick Murdoch 9the legendary Texas Outlaws), Ray Stevens, a young Ric Flair (with brown hair), Don Muraco, Mike Graham, Harold "Oddjob" Sakata and promoters Frank Dusek and Vince McMahon Sr. Plus, Sam Menacker, ex-wrestler and announcer for the WWA, as a hood (Menaker also appeared in the old movie, Mighty Joe Young).
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