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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 27, 2019 20:37:37 GMT -5
I still recall the hole Brawl to Settle It All and War to Settle the Score build up to the original Wrestlemania. I recognized Lou Albano in the "Girl's Just Want to Have Fun" video and had been watching early WWF tv, on All-American Wrestling, when Lauper turned up as a guest and Albano started taking credit for her success and she goes off on him. Then, the build up to the match, with Lauper picking Wendy Richter to be her wrestler. I thought it was odd, since it wasn't too long before that I saw Richter as a partner for Moolah. She seemed to be an odd babyface choice. From a looks and ringwork standpoint, I would have thought Velvet McIntyre would have been a better choice, out of Moolah's troupe... She held the Women's Tag-Team Title with Princess Victoria (who can be seen in the Dark of the Ring episode, about moolah, as can Richter) and also swapped the singles title with Moolah, after this match took place. Moolah had actually swapped the belt a few times, unlike the revised Mcmahon history would indicate (with Bette Boucher, Yukiko Tomoe, Sue Green and Evelyn Stevens). Mcintyre was born in Ireland and trained with Sandy varr (father of Jesse and Art Barr) in Portland, debuting there against fellow trainee Princess Victoria. She then wrestled in Vancouver's All-Star wrestling, before working in the WWF, via Moolah's bookings. She and Princess victoria defended the tag titles against Moolah and Wendy richter, which I first saw on a Madison Square Garden broadcast. McIntyre did work for Vince Jr, wrestling Moolah and Sherri Martel. She left the WWF after they stopped booking women's matches and worked in Canada and the independent scene, before retiring in 1998, after becoming pregnant, with twins. I never enjoyed Moolah's matches, as they were the same boring spots. McIntyre and Richter had more exciting styles, as did Martel when she emerged on the scene, a little bit later. Moolah just did the same hair-mares, buttdrops and front facelocks. The angles heated up with Piper involved, leading to the War to Settle the Score, with Hogan, at MSG, seen on MTV. That was fun, with Mr T getting involved and then Wrestlemania. It wasn't surprising who Vince got for celebrities fr that first show: Liberace, the Rockettes and Muhammad Ali. Liberace was even more over the top than Mcmahon and would do almost anything, for the right price. The Rockettes were mostly a Macy's Thanksgiving Parade cliche, at that point (though they still did their shows) and the McMahons were involved in promoting the Ali-Inoki fight, so they had an established relationship. You almost forget that Barry Windham and Mike Rotunda were on the card, defending the tag titles and that Wendy Richter regained the title there, from Leilani Kai (who I first saw wrestle for the Poffos, against Debbie Combs). or, that Ricky Steamboat wrestled Matt Borne, under his own name, a few years before he would be Doink the Clown. Of course, just before the card, Hogan and Mr T hosted SNL (night before) and, a few days before appeared on richard Belzer's cable show and choked him out, with a front facelock, causing him to hit the floor and bloody his head, leading to a subsequent lawsuit and settlement (it is believed that Belzer's cocaine use was a factor in his passing out so easily and bleeding so much). Also on the card were SD Jones, eternal jobber (losing to King Kong Bundy) and Playboy Buddy Rose (under a mask, as The Executioner) losing to Tito Santana. Really, aside fromt he main event, it was pretty much an average MSG card, aside from the celebrities (and Ali had appeared at ringside for a Gorilla Monsoon match, back in the day, to set up his fight with Inoki). By the way, the ringside crowd is a 70s polyester nightmare!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 21:22:15 GMT -5
Undertaker's Debut Survivor Series 1990
Birth of a Legend.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 21:26:30 GMT -5
Cody, The Fabulous Moolah is so overrated and I just had a hard time dealing with "mystique" and "style" and all that and Wendy is okay (more so) than here.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Oct 27, 2019 21:49:01 GMT -5
I just watched a 15 minutes match of Lucha Bros verses Private Party ... Private Party is an exciting tag team that does fantastic moves but they don't have any technical nor in ring tactics and Lucha Bros advances to the tag team tournament and I feel that Private Party don't have the experience to pull it off. These guys have no in ring communication and that forces the Lucha Bros ... Fennix and Pentagon Jr. to do what they don't normally do work together and forces them to do something unnatural and I feel that Private Party is one of the worst tag team because they just don't coordinate together. I've seen Private Party a couple of times and each time ... I felt that they don't have it takes to excel. It's an exciting match with a lousy conclusion and I'm not convinced that AEW is going to succeed in professional wrestling. Right now after seeing the first three shows on television ... I'm not very happy with the matches are going and I just feel that my hopes are vanished seeing everything that I've see so far. Cornette was crapping on the match, on his podcast (which I am listening to, now). He did think Marq Quen has something; but needs real training, like at NXT (he was "trained" by TNA wrestler Amazing Red, who I recall not being all that sound on fundamentals). I think they'll get better.. even calling the match, JR said something to the effect of 'These spots are great, but someone has to actually string a few moves together and attempt a pin'. The spots they can do are pretty amazing, but they have to learn how to tell a story with the match instaed of big spots and false finishes. Hopefully, they'll get there... It can only be good to have options. I haven't watched Powerrr yet.. I'm not much of a watch videos on the computer person, but I've heard alot so much good I'm sure I'll check it out eventually.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2019 6:47:22 GMT -5
Psychology is so important.
I was watching the 1979 cage match between Bob Backlund and Pat Patterson last night. At one point, a hurt Backlund found his second wind. He ran the ropes and knocked Patterson over - but then an exhausted Backlund fell to the floor. Both men began crawling.
This is believable. I don't doubt there are some who, in Backlund's shoes, would have found the second wind and then done 1145 moves in the space of a minute just to get the pops from the crowd. It meant far more to see Backlund fall down after his second wind - and then see both men crawl around the ring. As I often say, less really is more.
We need to bring back what could be becoming a lost art if your posts are anything to go by, guys.
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 28, 2019 11:41:11 GMT -5
I watched the first two AEW Dynamite shows: lots of spots, overly long matches and little rhyme or reason to what they are doing, apart from Jericho and Cody Rhodes. They know how to work and come off as stars. I've seen two Young Bucks matches, with the same spots and no good reason for why they are occuring. I laughed when I heard JR compare them to the RnR Express. Those guys had psychology down perfectly. It really did feel like a video game. The look of the show is pure WWE, minus the storytelling (good, bad or otherwise). JR has to try to string together a story, without much to link things. Very few promos, so I wonder why I should care about most of these people. Cornette is correct in his criticism that they assume you know who everyone is. The legendary Emi Sakura? LEGENDARY? This isn't Akira Hokuto or Chigusa Nagayo or Manami Toyota. They are legends. Sakura is someone who worked for secondary and indie promotions, like FMW and Ice Ribbon. You can't assume your audience will go out and google people; you have to give them a reason to care and they didn't.
It really feels like separate people are booking things, without working together for a cohesive show. They have a long way to go on this. Private Party was very awkward out there and I agree with Cornette that they need a lot more training. They do some spectacular moves; but, their execution is hit and miss and they haven't learned to sell properly or add details to their moves. All need to work on facials, as few seem to be used to working for a camera. They have a long way to go to really compete with the WWE. Staging is fine, graphics look good; but, they need to do more to introduce characters, tell stories through the show and across episodes. Teach these young guys to work for tv. Teach them how to execute a move to make it mean something. They also need to keep the crowd into the whole match, not just near falls and dives. Also, no one can buy into a guy who looks like he is 5'7" and 170 lbs (at most) who is flipping two guys at the same time (not talking about a headlock/head scissor spot, which has some logic; I mean waistlocking and throwing two guys at once, with no leverage or muscle).
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2019 11:46:05 GMT -5
Your assessment is totally spot on codystarbuck and I feel that this wrestling organization needs to improve quickly or otherwise I'm not going to watch it anymore. I'm very, very disappointed in AEW.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2019 11:50:51 GMT -5
You mention the RnR Express. I saw a lot of their matches when First Independent used to release NWA/WCW tapes here. And, of course, I've seen their matches on the WWF Network.
There was definitely an art to tag team wrestling. Regular tags, the tag ropes, the heels stepping in without tags, the faces getting a tag but the referee not seeing it, etc. Definitely different from singles bouts, hence the appeal. The whole point of a tag team match for me is to see TAG TEAMS wrestle in a TAG TEAM match. Otherwise it's just two singles guys thrown together having a double singles match.
Same with the Midnight Express. One of my favourite matches of theirs is the bout they had at The Great American Bash 1990 against The Southern Boys. Probably near to 20 minutes. Cornette at ringside, being the heel manager, but not having the spotlight totally on him. Loved it.
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 28, 2019 21:54:32 GMT -5
The second show I watched had Jericho in a long segment, introducing his inner circle. Jake Hager (the former Jack Swagger) did am impressive beatdown, on the first episode, on Cody & Dustin, then looked awkward executing a Vader body drop onto one of them (he was in street clothes). During the overly long promo, Hager kep looking to the side, like he was extremely nervous. It seems like these guys have issues with working to the camera, which makes me wonder about who is coordinating that stuff. Their camera guys missed some moves, so no one seems to be cuing in the director to have the camer guys to watch for something spectacular.
Really seems like the only promos are coming from Jericho and Cody, plus the SCU guys (Daniel, Kazarian and Scorpion). Scorpion was good on the mic and Corny has talked about there being something special there, when covering the AEW PPVs. He suggested putting him under a mask as a Black Panther-type superhero, ala Rey Mysterio, as he has the moves to really do something like that and draw big with that audience. Interesting idea.
Been watching more NWA Ten Pounds of Gold and am up to when they were building for the Nick Aldis vs Cody Rhodes match, at All In, where Cody won the title. Realy great storytelling in the build up. Also, it had behind the scenes segments for the press conferences and other elements of the promotion for All In. They really gave it a fight atmosphere for Aldis and Cody, with a weigh in and everything. That kind of deatil could really do a lot to reclaim the idea of pro wrestling as sports, which has been the way they have presented Aldis and the others on Ten Pounds. See more of Jocephus, which sheds more light on his character, which was a little confusing on Powerrr, without the background. The first show did a great job with Aldis vs Tim Storm; but, some of the others who wrestled had to be put over by Corny and Galli. Those guys cut more promos in a 20 minute segment than I saw on two episodes of Dynamite. Promos and interviews are essential for connecting with your audience.
Aldis heeled it up a bit better for All In then he has, so far, on Powerrr. i'd kind of like to see him get a little meaner on Powerrr. He's got the arrogant bit and carries himself like a real NWA champion, with a nice suits and carrying the belt cradled in his arm, like flair and Harley would, rather than thrown over the shoulder or dragging it around, like the younger generation. If you want the belt to mean something, have guys treat it like a prized possession. If they care, the crowd will. Its those kinds of old school details that NWA really gets right.
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 28, 2019 22:11:29 GMT -5
You mention the RnR Express. I saw a lot of their matches when First Independent used to release NWA/WCW tapes here. And, of course, I've seen their matches on the WWF Network. There was definitely an art to tag team wrestling. Regular tags, the tag ropes, the heels stepping in without tags, the faces getting a tag but the referee not seeing it, etc. Definitely different from singles bouts, hence the appeal. The whole point of a tag team match for me is to see TAG TEAMS wrestle in a TAG TEAM match. Otherwise it's just two singles guys thrown together having a double singles match. Same with the Midnight Express. One of my favourite matches of theirs is the bout they had at The Great American Bash 1990 against The Southern Boys. Probably near to 20 minutes. Cornette at ringside, being the heel manager, but not having the spotlight totally on him. Loved it. Corny usually only got involved if they were furthering an angle or if they needed heat at the end of a match. He never got involved on tv. he said the Midnight Express didn't need help with the jobbers, so he would stay by the podium and just run his mouth with David and Tony, to draw more heat on them. At arenas, he would help annoy the fans, then tease spots, then might be involved in a finish. He would do the ring introductions for the ME and get the crowd riled up, from the start. He has talked about the tennis racket. It would often actually be loaded, when they were in a dangerous town or arena, especially in the Mid-South days. He said they were once in Rock Hill, SC, when a frat, from the local college, was throwing tennis balls at the ring area. He started volleying them back at them, which got them to stop. He has one tennis racket on display in his office that has a big old dent where he cracked it into someone's forehead, when they tried to attack the ring. It looks like something from a Looney Tunes cartoon. By the by, the Southern Boys (Tracy Smothers and Steve Armstrong) were a great tag team. Excellent teamwork and Scott had that Armstrong gift for working. Only Brad was better in the ring, but Steve had a bit more size.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2019 7:29:05 GMT -5
You mention the RnR Express. I saw a lot of their matches when First Independent used to release NWA/WCW tapes here. And, of course, I've seen their matches on the WWF Network. There was definitely an art to tag team wrestling. Regular tags, the tag ropes, the heels stepping in without tags, the faces getting a tag but the referee not seeing it, etc. Definitely different from singles bouts, hence the appeal. The whole point of a tag team match for me is to see TAG TEAMS wrestle in a TAG TEAM match. Otherwise it's just two singles guys thrown together having a double singles match. Same with the Midnight Express. One of my favourite matches of theirs is the bout they had at The Great American Bash 1990 against The Southern Boys. Probably near to 20 minutes. Cornette at ringside, being the heel manager, but not having the spotlight totally on him. Loved it. By the by, the Southern Boys (Tracy Smothers and Steve Armstrong) were a great tag team. Excellent teamwork and Scott had that Armstrong gift for working. Only Brad was better in the ring, but Steve had a bit more size. I know both Brad and Steve Armstrong ... I have never, ever heard of the Southern Boys with Tracy Smothers. Looks like a hit and miss regarding the Southern Boys.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2019 8:57:48 GMT -5
Paul Bearer's Hits From The Crypt is a 1994 VHS release featuring matches hand-picked by Bearer. I was reading about it recently, having bought the tape back in the day. The US release had Luger versus Jarrett on the cover: The UK release had Earthquake versus Adam Bomb on the cover: Call me biased, but I prefer the UK cover, released by Silver Vision in 1994. It was a novelty seeing Bearer hand-pick matches (presuming he really did) that didn't all involve Undertaker. In fact, Undertaker is only one one match on the tape, battling Crush. The most memorable part of that match is Crush doing a gorilla press on Taker! There are some good matches here. The best match on the tape, in my humble opinion, is Razor Ramon VS Shawn Michaels for the Intercontinental Title - and it takes place prior to WrestleMania X. There's a GREAT spot where Ramon, Michaels and the referee accidentally butt heads. Putting the ladder matches aside, this may well be the best Ramon/Michaels match. There are some matches which are solid, but nothing spectacular, including Lex Luger VS Jeff Jarrett, and Bret Hart battling Kwang. Bam Bam Bigelow VS Mabel is a pretty solid match. Lex Luger and Randy Savage VS Crush and Yokozuna is watchable, I guess. Earthquake battles Adam Bomb in a match lasting under 5 minutes, a rematch from the squash at WM X. It's okay, but was less than five minutes really worth it? Men On A Mission & Doink the Clown VS The Quebecers & Jeff Jarrett is fun while it lasts, a novelty more than anything. The second best match on the tape sees the Quebecers defending the WWF Tag Team Championship against The Headshrinkers. This was the bout where the Quebecers lost the titles. The historical context here is that the Quebecers had successfully defending their titles, but often rather dubiously. And the storyline was that they were avoiding competition. In one WWF program, they spoke about their promise to defend the belts against Reno Riggins and Barry Horowitz! So it was good to see the cowardly Quebecers lose the belts. I doubt Bearer really picked these matches. Someone at the WWF or Coliseum Video no doubt did, Bearer simply hosting it. There are some solid bouts on this tape. If the WWF Network ever uploads this (they do have some Coliseum Video releases), check it out for the Michaels/Ramon match.
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 29, 2019 13:13:14 GMT -5
I'm old school and always liked Bill Moody better as Percy Pringle III than Paul Bearer; then again, I saw it first. He did a couple of shoot interviews with Corny, when he was with Ring of Honor, that can be seen on Youtube. Interesting stuff and very entertaining. He was another young fan, like Corny, who got into the business in the territories. He knew young Michael Hayes, when they were both starting out in the Gulf Coast territory (I think he said he knew him when they were both in school).
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2019 13:22:33 GMT -5
Did I read once that he was an actual mortician prior to entering wrestling?
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 29, 2019 23:20:58 GMT -5
Did I read once that he was an actual mortician prior to entering wrestling? Yep; that wasn't the reason for the Paul Bearer gimmick; just serendipity . Here's the interview with Corny; he covers his interview with the WWF in it, where they first find out about his background. Also stories about the Von Erichs, Sunny & Chris Candido, pumping gas for the Undertaker, his mentor Frankie Cain (aka The Great Mephisto) and more. Corny also had one with Bobby Heenan and one where Bobby came to the Castle and looked at Corny's collection of posters and magazines.
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