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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2019 16:12:33 GMT -5
The last three Brosnan's films were okay ... but not that memorable. I just can't stand World Not Enough because of Sophie Marceau, Die with Halle Berry is okay, and the Michelle Yeoh one was good and with the appearance of Teri Hatcher threw me a curveball that I did not expect at all. All the villains of these three movies were not my cup of tea and I wished that they gave Madonna more lines in Die Another Day and her role as Verity (uncredited) was not right at all. Rosamund Pike was good and yet I think Pike and Madonna's roles should been reversed.
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 5, 2019 18:55:54 GMT -5
I thought Sophie Marceau was the best thing about The World is not Enough, except maybe John Cleese. I will say, hats off to whoever created that gown she is wearing when she is choking Bond. She looks gorgeous in that thing and it is both classy and sexy, neither too over the top nor too understated.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Sept 5, 2019 20:20:22 GMT -5
Weird, though I agree with you about the quality of the film I actually liked Madonna's theme.
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 5, 2019 21:01:53 GMT -5
Weird, though I agree with you about the quality of the film I actually liked Madonna's theme. I've never cared much for her music, after Like a Prayer, in any media. In terms of film, I thought she was way better in Vision Quest (musically), though okay for Dick Tracy. Would have rather had Melora Hardin, who killed as a nightclub singer, in the Rocketeer. In terms of acting, the only thing I ever liked her in was A League of Their Own. When it comes to music in a Bond film, I tend to react to it differently than regular pop music. Once in a while, you get one that is great in both worlds, like Live and Let Die or For Your Eyes Only (which made for a nice pop ballad). I like Gladys Knight but didn't think much of the License to Kill title song. Sometimes, a band or singer sound even better in a film. I always enjoyed Wang Chung (Letterman jokes notwithstanding); but they sounded really great in the To Live and Die in LA soundtrack, especially the opening song. Of the Brosnan Era songs, Goldeneye was the only one I thought was really great. The others were okay or just ...meh, to me. Just for fun, I'd like to see them let Jim Steinman have a crack at a Bond theme. It probably wouldn't fit in with the canon; but, it would be epic! Actually, based on The Incredibles, I'd like to see Michael Giacchino score a Bond film, though it would need to be a stylistic one, ala the early days, rather than a deadly serious thing, like the Craig Era.
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Post by berkley on Sept 6, 2019 1:04:53 GMT -5
I'm a big Michelle Yeoh fan so I enjoyed her presence in that one film, but that was about all I liked about it. And even then, you could see they took a while to figure how best to use her - in her entry scene she has a weird hair-do and doesn't look like herself at all.
Haven't seen the other Brosnans, except for parts of Goldeneye on tv. Like Dalton, he was an actor who sounded like a perfect fit on paper but for whatever reason their on-screen performances as Bond never worked for me.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2019 2:18:03 GMT -5
I thought Sophie Marceau was the best thing about The World is not Enough, except maybe John Cleese. I will say, hats off to whoever created that gown she is wearing when she is choking Bond. She looks gorgeous in that thing and it is both classy and sexy, neither too over the top nor too understated. You got that right ... Agreed with your assessment here.
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Post by berkley on Sept 6, 2019 3:39:07 GMT -5
I forgot about Rosamund Pike and Sophie Marceau being in those two Brosnan Bonds that I missed. I like both of them, might have to watch those movies after all sometime just for their presence, just as I'll probably watch Spectre, which I missed at the theatre, sometime if only for the sake of Monica Bellucci (though I recently read somewhere her screen-time is disappointingly short).
I thought Skyfall had a pretty good theme song, about the only one I can recall from any Bond film since the Roger Moore days.
I'm thinking of starting a campaign to make retired MMA/UFC fighter and small-time actor Michael Bisping to be the next Bond, though I suppose he has the wrong accent (Lancashire).
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Post by String on Sept 7, 2019 13:26:20 GMT -5
Connery, Moore, Lazenby, Dalton, Craig, I can watch any and all of their Bond films over and over. Brosnan is my only exception. Goldeneye and Tomorrow Never Dies are my favorites of his and ones which I will watch repeatedly whenever I catch them on-air. I find the rest of his Bond films to be rubbish with poor plots and over-the-top gadgets that make me long for the days of the simple yet effective briefcase he used in From Russia With Love. John Cleese seems like an inspired choice to take over as armorer but in the end, it's a waste of prime talent.
I refuse to watch The World is Not Enough ever again (great family motto, shame it's wasted here on this film). The only two redeeming qualities I have for Die Another Day is: Madonna's theme song which I like and the sword fight at the fencing club. We've never seen such a duel in a Bond film before this and I thought it was rather well done. Alas, it's not enough to make me want watch it repeatedly as I would other Bond films.
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Post by Hoosier X on Sept 7, 2019 13:39:29 GMT -5
GoldeneyeStarring Pierce brosnan, Sean Bean, Izabella Scorupco, Famke Jansen, Alan Cummings, Judi Dench, Samantha Bond, Joe Don Baker, Michael Kitchen, Colin Salmon, Robbie Coltrane, and Tcheky Karyo. Released November 1995. In 1986, Bond and 006 (Alec Trevelyan), infiltrate a chemical weapons facility in Arkhangelsk and mayhem ensues. 006 is caught and Bond escapes, as 006 is killed. In 1995, in Europe, Xena Onatopp steals a high tech French attack helicopter, under Bond's nose. it is then used by her and Russian Gen. Orumov to infiltrate the Goldeneye satellite weapon system and murder everyone but programmer Natalya Simonova and Brosi Grishenko, who was an accomplice. The satellite has a weaponized EMP mechanism. Natalya learns that Boris is alive and arranges to meet him in St Petersburg. Bond is tasked to investiigate the Goldeneye incident, with the aid of CIA man Jack Wade. he makes contact with ex-KGB officer Valentin Zukovsky, who points him towards the Janus crime syndicate. Xena tries to seduce him and Bond turns the tables and forces her to lead him to Janus, who turns out to be a very alive 006. Bond is captured and left to die, with Natalya, but manages to trigger an ejection seat in the boobytrapped helo and they escape. Bond is picked up by Russian authorities and meets with Defense minister Mishkin, who is murdered by Orumov, with Bond framed. bond escapes in a tank and tears through St Petersburg. Bond kills orumov but 006 escapes to Cuba. Bond and Natalya meet up with Wade, in Florida and sneak into Cuba. They get to the control center for a second satellite and put a monkeywrench into the works. Bond and 006 fight on an antenna array, while Natalya spikes the computer system, while Boris tries to unlock it, before he is killed by liquid nitrogen. The satellite is destroyed and Bond and Natalya go f or a bit of nooky, when Wade turns up with some spec ops operators. The film was long delayed, due to the lawsuit and counter suit between Eon and MGM. When it was finally settled, Dalton had bowed out. This allowed Pierce brosnan to get his chance to play Bond (though liam Neeson and Mel Gibson were talked to). The name comes from Ian Fleming's Jamaica home, which was named for an actual espionage mission. It is given to the Russian EMP satellite weapon system. Brosnan is an excellent Bond, mixing the charm of Moore with the deadliness of Connery. Sean bean makes for a great turncoat 00, who is actually Bond's superior, in the field. Famke Jansen gets to go nuts as the psychotic Onatopp. Robbie Coltrane is fun, as Valentin, who gets to return. There is a heavy Luc Besson connection, thanks to the presence of Tcheky Karyo (Bob, in Nikita, as well as a French knight, in Messenger) and composer Eric Serra, who does the music. I half wished Besson had directed, though Martin Campbell knocks it out of the park. This is what we wanted in Bond, as a classic Bond, deadly and charming, spectacle, a great villain, twists and turns, good actors, and stunts mostly in service to the plot. The opening teaser sequence is great piece, topped off by the bungee jump. Judi Dench is an M for a new era, inspired by Stella Rimington, who was appointed as head of MI-5 (Security Service, tasked with counter-intelligence), in 1992. She plays it with her usual skill and gusto. She is as hard nosed as Admiral Sir miles Meservey, the original M. Michael Kitchen gets to bring Bill tanner, Chief of Staff alive, while colin Salmon, who made a stir in the second prime Suspect series, plays an MI-6 tech. Samantha Bond makes a nice Moneypenny, for a new era and has great chemistry with Brosnan. She would later turn up in Downton Abbey, to great effect. Tina Turner does the theme song, which fits the era, while feels like a Bond theme. She gives it the heat that Gladys Knight lacked in License to Kill (having a better song helps). Eric Serra proved a bit controversial; but, I liked it. Serra is a bassist, so his scores are heavy on base, with lots of synth; but, he makes good use of strings in the theme, which helps propel the action. His score for Nikita is tremendous and one of the first I ever bought, for the score, rather than songs. he delivers a similar feel, here, though Bond doesn't quite allow for the beautiful melodies he had in Nikita. he topped this with his score for Fifth Element, in my book, especially the Diva scene. This was a really great return to form for Bond and brought it into its 4th decade, when many thought it might be dead. Sadly, Cubby Broccoli didn't live to see it, as he died soon after the release. his failing health meant he wasn't actively involved in filming, as daughter Barbara took over the financial stuff, while stepspn michael G Wilson had bee a co-producer since View To a Kill, and had been involved in the script development since FYEO. Special effects man, derek meddings also passed away, with work on the Goldeneye satellite sequence being his last work, in the series. Meddings earned fame working for Gerry Anderson, before moving on to the Bond films and other productions. In the gap between License to Kill and Goldeneye, the Soviet government collapsed and the Union fell apart. This is captured in the title sequence, as we see Soviet icons collapsing. This new situation greatly informs the film, with the rise of the Oligarchs and crime syndicates within Russia, which created the environment that brought Vladimir Putin, an ex-KGB officer, to power (dictatorship). Sadly, this would be the apex for Brosnan, as the subsequent films have issues that were largely absent, with this first film. Script became a major issue, with Brosnan and Quentin Tarantino both suggesting Casino Royale as a script source for bring the series back to something more grounded. I feel like Goldeneye was the last great (or almost-great) James Bond film. It's certainly the only Bond film made after Roger Moore that might make my Top Ten.
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Post by Hoosier X on Sept 7, 2019 13:42:40 GMT -5
I am a huge fan of the franchise, but I have to admit I prefer the early films to the later ones. I absolutely loved Timothy Dalton as Bond, he was so under appreciated in that role, in my opinion. Seems Daniel Craig is filming his final film, but if all the reports are accurate, this film is going to be a mess. And don’t get me started on the female bond thing! Lol If you want to try a female Bond, all you need to do is adapt this, faithfully.... Modesty Blaise was a thrilling comic strip and novel series, with a strong, capable female lead, who could kick Bond's hinder. However, she was never adapted well to other media, especially film. The 1960s version of Modesty Blaise (with Monica Vitti) is a favorite guilty pleasure of mine, but OH YES I can easily see why the only people like it are Monica Vitti fans and film buffs like me who just love the Cinema of the Mod Era.
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Post by Hoosier X on Sept 7, 2019 13:49:34 GMT -5
Sadly, I think Craig peaked with his first film. Quantum is a mess, due to a rush to film, because of the Writer's Guild Strike and another 9/11 metaphor (as in the tail end of Casino). Skyfall and Spectre are better; but, I still feel like the films are cobbled together, there are too many 9/11 metaphors and they don't really feel like Bond films, except they are expensive and have the same catch phrases. otherwise,the product placement, catering to Asian markets, and effects-heavy scenes just distract from the plots. The acting is good, which helps; but, I have little desire to watch those, compared to the earlier generation. Bond is fantasy and they lost sight of that. I much preferred Man From UNCLE and the two Kingsman films to the Craig Bond films. I kind of feel like Bond outlived his time. Quantum is the worst Bond Movie of all time ... both Skyfall and Spectre were done hastily and fused together into one mess after together. I saw all of them once and haven't seen them since then. I just can't stand Daniel Craig anymore as 007. Quantum is pretty bad. On my old blog, when I reviewed the Bond films, I said Moonraker was OFFICIALLY the worst Bond film. But that was 2006 or so, and Quantum hadn't been released yet. I saw Quantum on DVD when it was still a relatively recent film and … it's not good. But I don't think it's worse than Moonraker. I'd have to watch them both again to really decide, and I'm just not that dedicated to the controversy.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2019 14:20:52 GMT -5
Quantum is the worst Bond Movie of all time ... both Skyfall and Spectre were done hastily and fused together into one mess after together. I saw all of them once and haven't seen them since then. I just can't stand Daniel Craig anymore as 007. Quantum is pretty bad. On my old blog, when I reviewed the Bond films, I said Moonraker was OFFICIALLY the worst Bond film. But that was 2006 or so, and Quantum hadn't been released yet. I saw Quantum on DVD when it was still a relatively recent film and … it's not good. But I don't think it's worse than Moonraker. I'd have to watch them both again to really decide, and I'm just not that dedicated to the controversy. I can see where you are coming at ... but, Moonraker has a better plot than Quantum (just barely) and I just can't stand Quantum at all for all it's worth. But, Moonraker has that stupid Laser Show in Outer Space and Quantum is a mess of everything that's makes no sense to me. To me, they are both equally bad and I just don't know what to say here. I refused to watch these two films again.
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 7, 2019 16:24:55 GMT -5
If you want to try a female Bond, all you need to do is adapt this, faithfully.... Modesty Blaise was a thrilling comic strip and novel series, with a strong, capable female lead, who could kick Bond's hinder. However, she was never adapted well to other media, especially film. The 1960s version of Modesty Blaise (with Monica Vitti) is a favorite guilty pleasure of mine, but OH YES I can easily see why the only people like it are Monica Vitti fans and film buffs like me who just love the Cinema of the Mod Era. Tarantino (who had an option on Modesty, for a long time, which is how that My Name is Modesty came out) said it was a good Joseph Losey film, but not a good Modesty Blaise movie. The latter half is true; I can't speak much for his other films. I enjoy camp but that wasn't particularly good camp. The Derek Flint films, the Matt Helm films, even the Italian James Tont Eurospy films are funnier than that was. The Ann Turkel tv pilot (co-starring Lewis Van Bergen, who later played Jon Sable) is awful, though it was the first Modesty I ever saw. My Name is Modesty is decent, for the low budget; but, the lead is concentration camp-thin. That may have looked okay for the flashbacks, to when she was young; but, not the adult Modesty, who is eating 3 square meals a day and isn't fighting off other displaced persons, in a camp. Back in the 90s, I thought Monica Bellucci was about physically perfect and Sean Bean was perfect for Willie Garvin (aside from being a Northerner)
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 7, 2019 16:30:55 GMT -5
Quantum is the worst Bond Movie of all time ... both Skyfall and Spectre were done hastily and fused together into one mess after together. I saw all of them once and haven't seen them since then. I just can't stand Daniel Craig anymore as 007. Quantum is pretty bad. On my old blog, when I reviewed the Bond films, I said Moonraker was OFFICIALLY the worst Bond film. But that was 2006 or so, and Quantum hadn't been released yet. I saw Quantum on DVD when it was still a relatively recent film and … it's not good. But I don't think it's worse than Moonraker. I'd have to watch them both again to really decide, and I'm just not that dedicated to the controversy. See, I'd rate View to a Kill lower than Moonraker. Moonraker has a lot of dumb stuff; but, the basic plot is okay. View to a Kill has a lot of dumb stuff, some real errors in logic, and Moore is embarrassingly too old. Walken is chewing scenery in a bad way (I'd like to have seen what Bowie would have done, if he hadn't passed on it.) I know a lot of people find him one of the better elements in the film; but, I never cared much for the performance. He's an actor who I like in some things, with the right director; but, tends not to be as good, in genre films. Quantum just bores the hell out of me.
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 7, 2019 18:02:27 GMT -5
Casino RoyaleStarring Daniel Craig, Eva Green, Mads Mikkelsen, Giancarlo Giannini, Jeffrey Wright, and Judi Dench. Released November 2006. James bond earns his 00 in the opening. In Africa, Le Chiffre receives money to invest for an African rebel leader and puts it into aerospace shares, in Skyliner. Bond is tasked with tracking a bomber in Africa and kills him, after a chase, though he was told to bring him in, alive. Clues lead to a greek man, in the Bahamas. Bond seduces his wife and wins his car, n a card game. He then tracks him to Miami, where he prevents the destruction of a Skyliner plane, costing Le Chiffre money. he sets up a high stakes Texas Hold-Em card game, at Casino Royale, in Montenegro. Bond is tasked to wipe Le Chiffre out and is accompanied by Vesper Lynd, of the Treasury. Bond gets the upper hand early and Le Chiffre is almost killed by the African leader, though he lets him continue. His bodyguard spots Bond, who is forced to kill him. When play resumes, Le Chiffre has been tipped off about a tell and Bond is losing. Vesper refuses further funds and another player, Felix Leiter, comes to his aid. Leiter is with the CIA, who also want Le Chiffre wiped out and neutralized. Bond is winning when he is poisoned. he gets to his car and injects and antidote and uses a defibrillator, then passes out. Vesper attends to him. He returns to play and wins. he and Vesper celebrate and she is kidnapped from the hotel. Bond pursues, then sees Vesper, lying in the road, bound, and swerves to miss, rolling his car. he is taken prisoner and tortured, to reveal the password for his account. A man called Mr White comes along and kills Le Chiffre, but leaves bond alive. He wakes up in a hospital. he resigns to go off with Vesper and then learns, from M, that the money was never deposited and knows vesper betrayed him. He follows her for the handoff and kills the man, but Vesper traps herself in an elevator, which plunges under water and drowns. m reveals that she was a traitor, under duress, and Bond acts unaffected. He locates and captures Mr White. Essentially, this is a remake, both of the Climax Theater teleplay and the campy 60s film, though somewhat more faithful to the source. Not entirely, though. In the original novel (the debut of Bond), Le Chiffre is the paymaster for SMERSH operations; but, has been diddling the accounts. Bond is there to wipe him out; but, loses. felix Leiter, the CIA man, gives him funds to continue (with a note that says "Lend Lease," after the WW2 program where neutral USA lent the UK old weaponry and equipment, in exchange for leases on foreign bases) and Bond wipes out Le Chiffre. Instead of attempting to poison Bond, one of Le Chiffre's men has azip gun (in a walking stick) pointed at Bond's back, ordering him to lose. Bond tips his chair backwards, suddenly, and knocks away the weapon. Later, Vesper is kidnapped and the road accident occurs, putting Bond in Le Chiffre's hands. he is tortured and is saved by a killer from SMERSH, who cuts a cyrillic letter in his hand, for "spy", which Bond later has to have a skin graft, to cover. vesper is a traitor, there, working for the Russians. Here, the opening elements are new, as are the post torture scenes. The center section follows the novel (apart from the African bodyguard spotting Bond) relatively closely. The torture of Bond is as inthe book. Fleming had a thing for this sort of scene and sadistic torture is an element of several of the novels. In his personal life, Fleming and his married lover (and later wife, after she was divorced from her her previous husband) engaged in a BDSM relationship. The scene reads as nasty as what's on screen. In the novel, it is mentioned that Bond earned his 00 by killing a Japanese spy, from a distance, on the 36th floor of the RCA building, in NYC, and a double agent in Norway (during the war).M is Sir Miles Meservey, a retired admiral, who was based on Fleming's boss at Naval Intelligence, Rear Adm. John Godfrey, while the M name was derived from C, head of the Secrutiy Service, so-called because of legendary head of that service Mansfield Smith-Cummings, who signed orders with a large "C", leading the that becoming the name for the head of the service). In the film, Judi Dench is back as M, who distrusts Bond and uses him reluctantly, because he tends to be rather blunt in achieving his ends and she also considers him to be mentally questionable. The film basically revolves around Bond proving himself to become the agent we know from the original series. For several years there was talk of showing Bond's early days and that was the genesis of this project, combined with Sony purchasing MGM, giving them rights to Bond and the film rights to Casino Royale, so it could become an "official" Bond film. Neither Q nor Moneypenny appear in this film. desmond Llewelyn had passed away after the premiere of TWINE and John Cleese did not return after DAD. Q will turn up, as will Moneypenny, though in revised roles. One of the big elements of the film is the early parkour display, when Bond chases the African bomber. The bomber is portrayed by Sebastien Foucan, one of the people responsible for popularising parkour, outside of France. Foucan took part in a documentary, showcasing him running through London, jumping off of and onto objects, leading to being cast to perform in the film. His style was referred to as "freerunning," rather than the French parkour. parkour was originally developed in the French army, as a way of training soldiers to find the most efficient way of overcoming obstacles. In the modern world, it turned into a sport that split into factions. one group placed emphasis on style in performing stunts and jumps, while the other was built more around efficiency. Parkour was also displayed in the French action film B13 (Banlieue 13 or District 13), as well as Luc Besson's Taxi 2. This helped set off any number of idiots into becoming objects of derision on Youtube videos. The early part of the film is a bit disjointed and the airport stunt show seems to be a diversion, existing mainly to set up le Chiffre's need of the poker tournament. The original card game, in the novel was baccarat, where the object of the game is to defeat the banker with 2 or 3 cards, adding up to 9 (or higher value than the banker, but no greater than 9), a game played in European casinos, similar to Blackjack. As such, poker seems a bit less exotic and classy; but, it reflected the growth of Texas Hold-Em in international tournaments and casinos. Still, Bond playing poker vs baccarat (or chemin de fer) seems a bit lower class. Product placement is once again all over the film, though more high end products than anything else. The BMW deal was long over, returning Bond to English cars, while also high end Rolex and Omega watches. Bond uses more modern firearms, carrying a Walther P99 throughout the film... The P99 had been seen in the series since TND, with Pierce Brosnan, as it was the latest generation Walther, of the period, with greater firepower than the PPK, which looked outdated in modern action films. Eon had dabbled with newer weapons for Bond, as Roger Moore carried a Walther P5, in Octopussy (as well by Sean Connery, in never Say Never Again), at Walther's insistence, as they were promoting the new pistol. However, Bond reverted to the PPK in subsequent films, until TND, when Brosnan picks up a P99, from Wai Lin. After a long search, it was announced that Craig had won the role, setting off a s@#$storm, in certain quarters of fandom, over Craig being fair haired. It proved a minor distraction. Craig had been around a while; but, gained his first major notice for Layer Cake, the first film directed by Matthew Vaughn, playing a very Bond-like crook. Craig proves to be a tough, ruthless Bond, with much in common with the literary version. Personally, I thought he was good here; but, he is too serious in subsequent movies and seems a bit more middle class than Bond should be. It seemed like the producers were going out of their way to make Bond tougher than other action heroes, when he is supposed to be stylish. Craig never really pulls off the stylish part, to me, despite the clothes, cars and accessories. He seems more like an ex-SAS officer who probably came from a more humble background, while Bond was part of the upper crust, in keeping with many of the SOE and OSS types of WW2 (including people like Christopher Lee). Eva Green is fine, as vesper, though it isn't a particularly strong role. There are a couple of really great scenes that do more for the character than the entire rest of the film. She did look like she could use a sandwich or two (par for the course with modern actresses). Mads Mikkelsen made for a good and icy Le Chiffre, which helped the film quite a bit. Jeffrey Wright is the second person of color to play Felix Leiter, after Bernie Casey, in NSNA. He would return for Quantum. On the whole, it's a darn good film and by far Craig's best, for my money; but, 9/11 heavily informs it, which, for me, robs it of what differentiates Bond. Even the novels are fantasy and this is so deadly serious. Connery used to get off a joke or two. Craig makes quips, though never delivered with quite the same effect. The 9/11 metaphor becomes a major issue in the Craig films, which makes them feel more formulaic than even Moore's films. Modern audiences don't seem to mind; but, I find that the loss of the fantasy element of Bond and the over emphasis on stunt sequences prevents the series from ever being as good as the Connery era. Those films had style, spectacle, charm ; and, above all, story. Your mileage may vary. David Arnold was back to do the music and Chris Connell did the theme song, "You Know My Name." It's fine; not a favorite. Really not enthused by any of Craig Era songs; but, I haven't thought much of any of them since Goldeneye. They all seem rather by-the-numbers, to me. The film did what it set out to do, which was reboot the Bond franchise for a new audience, starting with the earliest material. It introduces a younger Bond, who is finding his way. it also set up an international organization for Bond to fight, other than the Russians or SPECTRE. However, it became obvious that no one had really planned out how they would continue, as Quantum makes a hash of the group and SPECTRE reveals that they were mostly a smokescreen. Here, at least, the mysterious Quantum, and Mr White, suggest something to give the series a jolt. Shame it didn't payoff later (agin, your mileage...etc). The film also marked a return for Martin Campbell, who launched the Brosnan Era, with Goldeneye. In my opinion, he was second only to Terrence Young among the Bond directors. Sadly, he didn't return, for more.
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