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Post by Icctrombone on Sept 8, 2019 7:45:18 GMT -5
That scene is taken out of context. This is from the end of PAD's Supergirl series. This is the Linda/Matrix Supergirl who is on the Pre-Crisis Silver Age Earth and Superman knows that she is NOT his cousin. She took Kara's place by masquerading as Kara to prevent Kara dying in COIE. Superman discovers she is not Kryptonian but does not learn her real name until this scene.
BTW this arc is from Supergirl #75-80. It is collected into a trade called Many Happy Returns. It featured the Pre-Crisis Supergirl meeting the Linda/Matrix Supergirl. It was the result to try and boost sales on the title which didn't work. If the book wasn't canceled PAD planned on making it a Super Birds of Prey styled title featuring Linda, Kara and Power Girl.
Yokay, but the context is creepy and weird. Supes calls MatrixGirl by his cousin's name before he kisses her and she seems to enthusiastically kiss him back. Although unlike the Weissinger example also posted, I'm sure the author was writing it to be creepy and weird and the audience was supposed to view it as such. When I read that page, it makes me think that it's not really Superman. He says he doesn't love Lois. Since When ? |
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Post by Icctrombone on Sept 8, 2019 7:46:27 GMT -5
Talia saves Batman.  |
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Post by zaku on Sept 8, 2019 10:14:20 GMT -5
I still remember the first time I read this story it made me unconfortable: she was cuffed for God's sake! Even for 80s' standards he was probably doing a crime! |
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Post by Icctrombone on Sept 8, 2019 11:19:42 GMT -5
I let it pass because he was just doing it to piss her off. It wasn’t sexual.
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Post by rberman on Sept 8, 2019 12:42:47 GMT -5
I let it pass because he was just doing it to piss her off. It wasn’t sexual. I doubt he would have done it to Moses Magnum or the Absorbing Man, because it's a sexual act. |
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Post by zaku on Sept 8, 2019 13:34:53 GMT -5
I let it pass because he was just doing it to piss her off. It wasn’t sexual. Please. It's sexual assault. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Sept 8, 2019 14:29:57 GMT -5
I let it pass because he was just doing it to piss her off. It wasn’t sexual. Please. It's sexual assault. Okay, it would never fly in this era. |
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Post by zaku on Sept 9, 2019 5:51:41 GMT -5
Just for the sake of curiosity, I googled the subject and an unwanted kiss is definitively classified as Sexual Assault in many states of the U.S. and according to Federal Law too. I've no idea where this Avengers' story is set, but if we assume that it (like 90% of the Avengers stories of that period) is set in New York, Hawkeye is certainly committing a crime.
And really, what would you think if policemen kissed arrested women in handcuffs against their will just to "piss them off"?
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Sept 9, 2019 6:04:44 GMT -5
If you kiss a woman just to piss her off, wasn't your very intention to violate her? Would she be just as irritated if you punched her in the shoulder? The laws may have been less interested in this back then, but any woman who was "pissed off" at receiving an unwanted kiss certainly cared.
This thread continues to creep me out.
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Post by Icctrombone on Sept 9, 2019 6:18:58 GMT -5
Shax, you can pull the plug on this thread if you want but I'm just posting what was actually published in various comics through the years.
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Post by shaxper on Sept 9, 2019 6:43:45 GMT -5
Shax, you can pull the plug on this thread if you want but I'm just posting what was actually published in various comics through the years. I'm not a mod, nor would I ever suggest you don't have the right to post something that complies with the rules. However, I think this subject matter is pretty awful, and just as you have a right to post it, I have a right to comment on it  |
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Sept 9, 2019 7:20:38 GMT -5
I can't speak for the other moderators, but I think this thread is fine. I don't agree with everything that every poster is saying necessarily -- on both sides of the discussion -- but no forum rules have been broken, so it's all tickety-boo, as far as I'm concerned.
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Post by Icctrombone on Sept 9, 2019 8:14:07 GMT -5
Shax, you can pull the plug on this thread if you want but I'm just posting what was actually published in various comics through the years. I'm not a mod, nor would I ever suggest you don't have the right to post something that complies with the rules. However, I think this subject matter is pretty awful, and just as you have a right to post it, I have a right to comment on it As the " Stan Lee"of this site, what you say and think has more pull than anyone else. So if you don't like the thread, I can see it disappearing . But there are other important things about what's being posted and some people's reaction to it that I want too address- 1. We are imposing todays sensibilities to comics that were published mostly ( from what I've been posting) 30 years ago. There is a movement in society to eliminate history because it's ugly by todays standards. The # metoo movement has been a valuable thing to educate people to not violate peoples right to not want physical contact. But I would caution that without a male or female " making the first move" we wouldn't have any relationships or families. 2. The context of many of the scans that I've posted are humor. Hawkeye being manhandled by the She Hulk was meant for humorous effect, as many of the other scans. 3. Someone mentioned Deathbird being cuffed and kissed. My take on it is , she's a murderous criminal and if a kiss is all that she had to endure, she got off light. They could have done a Rodney King on her instead. I mean for this thread to be a lighthearted look at some of the kisses through the ages, not a sexual violation recap, as some have implied. I'm not a person who enjoys the brutalization of women ( or men) so please lets take this for what it is without grafting some of todays divisive rhetoric onto it. |
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Post by zaku on Sept 9, 2019 10:12:15 GMT -5
3. Someone mentioned Deathbird being cuffed and kissed. My take on it is , she's a murderous criminal and if a kiss is all that she had to endure, she got off light. They could have done a Rodney King on her instead. A judge and a jury must decide what she has to endure. At that moment she was evidently no longer a danger and was at the mercy of her captors. Like Dostoyevsky said, "society should not be judged on how it treats its outstanding citizens but by how it treats its criminals"; so, what should be the message here? If you are a criminal, it's ok to be sexually assaulted? And it's not important what Hawkeyes' intentions were. I cannot justify myself from groping or molesting a woman (or anyone) by saying "But it's not a sexual thing!". |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Sept 9, 2019 10:19:07 GMT -5
I'm not a mod, nor would I ever suggest you don't have the right to post something that complies with the rules. However, I think this subject matter is pretty awful, and just as you have a right to post it, I have a right to comment on it As the " Stan Lee"of this site, what you say and think has more pull than anyone else. So if you don't like the thread, I can see it disappearing I'm flattered that you think that highly of me, George. Really, all I want is to be a regular here. What I did to get the ball rolling doesn't amount to a whole lot when compared to what others do and have done to make this community what it is. So no, you do not need to bow to my sensibilities on this. On the other hand, I won't keep silent when I have objections and opinions just because I have some kind of figurehead status either. I could argue so much of this, but I won't. Let's leave it at this. If you want a fun thread full of times folks have "stolen a kiss," you've got it. When you start saying things like "he was just trying to piss her off" and "it wasn't sexual," though, you're going to get push back because then this thread becomes about something more than just things that used to happen in comic books. If you want to get into the whitewashing of history, #metoo, and the political correctness of sex and dating in today's society, you're going to end up with a debate. So if you want lighthearted, my advice is to keep the thread going, but be mindful that some of these moments are going to be upsetting to many today, looking at it from today's viewpoint. You could start a thread about the "whimsical" treatment of African Americans in Golden Age comics and expect the same objections. Just because the mainstream said it was okay then doesn't mean it ever really was, so stick with the less controversial scans and assertions unless you are interested in hearing the other side of the argument. |
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