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Post by MWGallaher on Jun 5, 2020 11:58:37 GMT -5
Heck had his moments, but I think they came in the fifties. In the 70s and 80s, he was the pencilling equivalent of Vinnie Colletta. I think his pencils were still solid into the 70s, but his inks got very slapdash. And I could never understand why DC would have him work as an inker over other pencillers. I assumed it was an act of appreciative employment to an artist whose pencil style was out of step with the times. His inking wasn't up to the standards of the day, either, but inking rarely if ever makes or prevents a sale. His pencils in the mid-to-late 1980's, though, would certainly have turned off a significant number of potential buyers. I certainly never objected to his inks on Hawkman, the last place I remember seeing them. Although corporations do get some bad reps for how they treat older talent, DC did show some instances of loyalty to veteran artists. For instance, Dick Ayers had a long stint as the penciller on Unknown Soldier, although he was clearly working from very detailed Joe Kubert layouts on every issue I've seen, and was being inked by Gerry Talaoc, who had done a creditable job on the feature all on his own prior to Ayers' addition to the creative team. I think we'd have gotten essentially the same results if Kubert's layouts had gone straight to Talaoc.
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Post by kirby101 on Jun 5, 2020 13:14:15 GMT -5
I did not like Heck's work. I thought it lacked the dynamism that other Marvel artist had. Not that he was a bad draftsman, just a boring comic artist. The difference between him and Buscema on Avengers was so stark. I later saw his non-Marvel work and thought it pretty good. Perhaps he just wasn't a fit for the Marvel style and would have been better elsewhere. (even though Stan liked him, and Buscema even thought he was one of the better talents) He just didn't do anything for me.His story telling and layouts felt bland.
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Post by beccabear67 on Jun 5, 2020 13:20:04 GMT -5
I thought Al Williamson inking assignments later on were not up to standard sometimes. It's a worthy point that it was important to provide work to those who spent so many decades before making these companies sustainable, and by many accounts a number of them felt unemployable outside of comics.
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Post by MDG on Jun 5, 2020 15:08:33 GMT -5
I thought Al Williamson inking assignments later on were not up to standard sometimes. It's a worthy point that it was important to provide work to those who spent so many decades before making these companies sustainable, and by many accounts a number of them felt unemployable outside of comics. I've always had mixed feelings about Williamson's inking jobs in the 80s and 90s. It got the job done and had some flair, but... I know Curt Swan said that Williamson was his favorite inker on his work.
I think Williamson may have been a little burnt out after the Secret Agent Corrigan strip and Star Wars work and wanted something less demanding. It was great, though, seeing that he could still hit it out of the park with that two-issue Flash Gordon he did for Marvel.
Williamson was, by the way, a great guy and very friendly when I saw him at shows. He was one of the people, like Julie Schwartz, who would show up at Ithacon unannounced. When we had the art business, he'd sell us pages he inked at $20 each which we could turn around easily at a profit.
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Post by The Captain on Jun 5, 2020 15:38:02 GMT -5
I absolutely love finding something old that is new to me and enjoying the heck out of it. My LCS has been putting out deeply-discounted TPBs over the past six months or so, and I've been picking up all of the John Constantine, Hellblazer ones. I always knew the series existed, but I never bothered buying any of it in the past, not in floppie or trade. Some really good stuff in there that I'm finally putting my eyeballs on.
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Post by berkley on Jun 5, 2020 16:48:05 GMT -5
It always bothers me that someone of the stature of Al Williamson should have had to waste his time and talent inking other, lesser artists in the first place. And that isn't meant to be a knock against those other artists, whoever they were, because I think pretty much anyone would be lesser in my eyes.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jun 5, 2020 17:16:36 GMT -5
I absolutely love finding something old that is new to me and enjoying the heck out of it. My LCS has been putting out deeply-discounted TPBs over the past six months or so, and I've been picking up all of the John Constantine, Hellblazer ones. I always knew the series existed, but I never bothered buying any of it in the past, not in floppie or trade. Some really good stuff in there that I'm finally putting my eyeballs on. That was my favourite series for a good long while, so I hope you'll continue to enjoy it! Especially the first few years... Delano, Ennis, Campbell, Jenkins and Azarello really did good with the title. Unlike, say, Micronauts or latter-day Swamp Thing, the title did not read as if someone wanted to recapture the old magic of its heyday. John aging in real time, a rare thing nowadays, also made the whole thing more grounded.
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Post by tarkintino on Jun 5, 2020 17:27:16 GMT -5
I did not like Heck's work. I thought it lacked the dynamism that other Marvel artist had. Not that he was a bad draftsman, just a boring comic artist. The difference between him and Buscema on Avengers was so stark. I later saw his non-Marvel work and thought it pretty good. Perhaps he just wasn't a fit for the Marvel style and would have been better elsewhere. (even though Stan liked him, and Buscema even thought he was one of the better talents) He just didn't do anything for me.His story telling and layouts felt bland. All so true; I found Heck's sketchy, seemingly unfinished pencils utterly incompatible with a title ( The Avengers) where fluidity of a number of heroes in action was an absolute necessity. He also lacked Buscema's ability to so truthfully capture both the agony and joy (the latter rarely appearing) of characters with complex expressions not often found in 60's superhero comics. The transition from Heck to Buscema was one of the most seismic in any title's history, right up there with Ditko to Romita, and Moldoff / Stone to Novick.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jun 5, 2020 17:30:55 GMT -5
I Absolutely love Don Heck's fine line, feathery style artwork for Marvel and DC during my days of reading and collecting. His 60's, 70's and 80's were an essential part of my youth as he graced many a comic series. I will take Heck's often criticized artwork over what is the current talking head or repeated panel syndrome of today. Heck provided detailed and lively panels telling a story that can still be enjoyed and delved deeper into for repeat viewing and reading today! When you say Don Heck, I immediately envision his Iron Man, Hawkeye, Black Widow, the Avengers, Flash, Wonder Woman and Justice League. Heck's men were expressive heroic and Heck's women were all sexy, beautiful and exotic. If anybody says differently, then to HECK with them!!! Don Heck was THE Avengers artist for me growing up.
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Post by Batflunkie on Jun 5, 2020 17:58:16 GMT -5
Unlike, say, Micronauts or latter-day Swamp Thing, the title did not read as if someone wanted to recapture the old magic of its heyday. Was there ever a reason given as to why IDW cancelled both it's Micronauts and ROM books? I mean they weren't amazing, but hardly cancellation worthy John aging in real time, a rare thing nowadays, also made the whole thing more grounded. I think Dredd is the only other character that's done that
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Post by brutalis on Jun 5, 2020 18:27:33 GMT -5
IDW tried to create combined Hasbro Universe so for awhile Transformers, GI Joe. ROM, Micronauts and M.A.S.K were all folded into 1 ongoing series. It didn't do well enough to continue so they did a big mini-series finale to end it all in a happily ever after fashion. I enjoyed the ongoing but as a whole it wasted concepts & characters.
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Post by kirby101 on Jun 5, 2020 20:41:46 GMT -5
It always bothers me that someone of the stature of Al Williamson should have had to waste his time and talent inking other, lesser artists in the first place. And that isn't meant to be a knock against those other artists, whoever they were, because I think pretty much anyone would be lesser in my eyes. I think he preferred that. Never a fast pencilled, it was a less demanding way for him to make a living. I very much liked his inking of J Romita Jr on Daredevil.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2020 0:06:48 GMT -5
Unlike, say, Micronauts or latter-day Swamp Thing, the title did not read as if someone wanted to recapture the old magic of its heyday. Was there ever a reason given as to why IDW cancelled both it's Micronauts and ROM books? I mean they weren't amazing, but hardly cancellation worthy John aging in real time, a rare thing nowadays, also made the whole thing more grounded. I think Dredd is the only other character that's done that The sales on the books were cancellation worthy, especially when you consider they cost more to produce because of the licensing fees. -M
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Post by brutalis on Jun 6, 2020 10:49:55 GMT -5
I Absolutely love Don Heck's fine line, feathery style artwork for Marvel and DC during my days of reading and collecting. His 60's, 70's and 80's were an essential part of my youth as he graced many a comic series. I will take Heck's often criticized artwork over what is the current talking head or repeated panel syndrome of today. Heck provided detailed and lively panels telling a story that can still be enjoyed and delved deeper into for repeat viewing and reading today! When you say Don Heck, I immediately envision his Iron Man, Hawkeye, Black Widow, the Avengers, Flash, Wonder Woman and Justice League. Heck's men were expressive heroic and Heck's women were all sexy, beautiful and exotic. If anybody says differently, then to HECK with them!!! Don Heck was THE Avengers artist for me growing up. You truly are my brother! Heck's Avengers were my 1st exposure to Earths Mightiest as his issues were reprinted in Marvel Triple Action. I received a handful during summer vacation with my Grandparents in Payson along with a batch of Marvel Westerns. Read them every night after dinner before bed. It was that Kooky Quartet enlivened by the exquisite art of Heck which quickly made Avengers MY team. His heroes were handsome and heroic without being steroidal muscle freaks & his women were gorgeous and the villains oozed with their villainy. That is great comics to me and I love 'em!
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Post by beccabear67 on Jun 6, 2020 14:40:43 GMT -5
I had a lot of Don Heck Avengers, and a bit of Ant-Man and Iron Man... he had his strong points, especially when inking himself. I love the then-stylish furniture he would draw in backgrounds. This is one of my favorites of his... dig this early '60s modern apartment flat! He did the best Giant Man (okay, tied with Bob Powell) and The Wasp and Pepper Potts! The bit of western comics I've seen of his was very good, and he did short 'Not Brand Ecch' humor well in the back of one Avengers Annual (if I'm remembering right), I'm not sure why he didn't do more of those.
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