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Post by jbruel0 on Jan 11, 2020 13:04:58 GMT -5
Hello, I have been in contact with many of you on the previous threads about Conan, exchanging data and opinions, was good. With the new Marvel 2019 Conan, we see some good things as original reprints of CtB, Annuals, Hour of the Dragon but a lot of very poor subjects having nothing to do with Conan as Hyborean Avengers, 2099, etc... Anyone in this great forum has an opinion? We exchanged wit Roquefort Raider ago, other ones, now it seems that the Conan we know and love is dead by Marvel desire and stupidity Any chance to create a thread on this and make Marvel reconsider their stupid marketing? All in the Planet are not Captain America or Avengers Could we have a chance to see by our community see Conan back to his principles lost everywhere (2019 Conan, Savage Sword, Avengers and other Marvel desasters) If this thread can live, I would be happy to reconnect with the old guys in
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2020 14:34:55 GMT -5
Hello, I have been in contact with many of you on the previous threads about Conan, exchanging data and opinions, was good. With the new Marvel 2019 Conan, we see some good things as original reprints of CtB, Annuals, Hour of the Dragon but a lot of very poor subjects having nothing to do with Conan as Hyborean Avengers, 2099, etc... Anyone in this great forum has an opinion? We exchanged wit Roquefort Raider ago, other ones, now it seems that the Conan we know and love is dead by Marvel desire and stupidity Any chance to create a thread on this and make Marvel reconsider their stupid marketing? All in the Planet are not Captain America or Avengers Could we have a chance to see by our community see Conan back to his principles lost everywhere (2019 Conan, Savage Sword, Avengers and other Marvel desasters) If this thread can live, I would be happy to reconnect with the old guys in This isn't Marvel, this is what the current rights holders want with Conan to give him a higher pop culture profile, which is why the ended the Dark Horse license and brought it to Marvel. If you want to point fingers at somene for the current state of Conan, point them at the people who currently own the rights, (formerly Paradox or whatever they are called now owned by Malmberg and friends). Marvel is doing exactly what they want. If you don't believe me, check out their Conan website that launched about a year ago and see how they are promoting Conan and what they think will make them money using Conan. Marvel is simply the hired gun here, what is being done with Conan is 100% what the owners want done. Also, this should be in the modern comics forum, not classics. -M
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Roquefort Raider
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 11, 2020 15:04:24 GMT -5
Hello, I have been in contact with many of you on the previous threads about Conan, exchanging data and opinions, was good. With the new Marvel 2019 Conan, we see some good things as original reprints of CtB, Annuals, Hour of the Dragon but a lot of very poor subjects having nothing to do with Conan as Hyborean Avengers, 2099, etc... Anyone in this great forum has an opinion? We exchanged wit Roquefort Raider ago, other ones, now it seems that the Conan we know and love is dead by Marvel desire and stupidity Any chance to create a thread on this and make Marvel reconsider their stupid marketing?All in the Planet are not Captain America or Avengers Could we have a chance to see by our community see Conan back to his principles lost everywhere (2019 Conan, Savage Sword, Avengers and other Marvel desasters) If this thread can live, I would be happy to reconnect with the old guys in Alas, I very much doubt that there is anything we fans can do to make Marvel do anything, because our buying power does not carry much weight. I don’t have any hard numbers, but I am pretty convinced that there are more readers who think it’s cool to have that old barbarian played by Arnold Shwarzenegger in the Avengers than there are readers who want the stories to stick to R. E. Howard’s prose. Besides, the sales numbers we’re talking about suggest that even the momentary boost provided by a “Conan vs Galactus” story would probably prove more profitable than a book aimed at old fans. My hopes for the future rest mostly on the fact that most of the Conan stories are now in the public domain, allowing things like the (admittedly flawed) Glénat series to be published. We might also get, if we’re really, really lucky, a writer like Kurt Busiek who would convince Marvel to give them a Conan book that would stick to Howard’s vision for a few years. I mean why not? I’d much prefer not to have Conan have anything to do with the Avengers, but a mag where no mention is ever made of them might be set in its own continuity and allow old fans to simply pretend the modern crossovers never happened. (Actually, that’s not such a difficult exercise since the Chuck Dixon issues of SSoC were clearly set in their own universe). It’s too bad the Dark Horse series went belly up. Despite the terrible “Conan the barbarian” run, the Busiek, Truman and van Lente issues were really good.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2020 23:31:31 GMT -5
Here's the bottom line-the only thing the owners of Conan have wanted since they acquired the Howard properties is to make a big budget Conan movie and reap the rewards they think it will bring. The Momoa film did nothing. So they obsessed with bringing an Arnie picture to the screen thinking it would be the big budget success and winning lottery ticket for them, but they couldn't find a studio willing to bite and make the film, and Arnie's recent string of box office failures have made him box office poison, so they have changed their strategy again, and started eyeing the biggest box office success maker out there-Marvel Studios. They brought Conan back to Marvel with the hopes that it would give them an in to Marvel Studios to make the movie they want, and moreso, asking Marvel to integrate Conan into the Marvel U is their way of trying to get the next Conan movie to be an MCU film, which they think is a license to print money.
They do not care about quality Conan stories. They do not care about remaining true to the Howard legacy or conception of Conan, they do not care about the Howard Conan stories themselves, they care about making money from Conan movies and would sell Howard's soul to make that happen. Everything else they have done with the property was a consolation prize for them to float the funding of the company until they score their winning movie lottery ticket. And most of the things they have announced have turned out to be vaporware (book lines, miniatures, etc. etc. all announced, some kickstarted, none actually reaching market when they were announced), since they really have no clue what they are doing. The only way this is going to change is if they crash and burn and go into bankruptcy and someone else buys the rights to the Howard estate in the bankruptcy proceedings.
-M
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Post by earl on Jan 12, 2020 20:10:59 GMT -5
Read what you dig and don't worry about the rest is my way of thinking anymore. I thought Ron Garney's arc was good in Savage Sword and Aaron's story was pretty good too. I guess Savage Sword is ending with #12, so it is already done.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 13, 2020 16:25:07 GMT -5
Read what you dig and don't worry about the rest is my way of thinking anymore. I thought Ron Garney's arc was good in Savage Sword and Aaron's story was pretty good too. I guess Savage Sword is ending with #12, so it is already done. Boy, that was fast!!! I probably won't bemoan the passing of that volume as I did the original one, though.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 16:34:14 GMT -5
Read what you dig and don't worry about the rest is my way of thinking anymore. I thought Ron Garney's arc was good in Savage Sword and Aaron's story was pretty good too. I guess Savage Sword is ending with #12, so it is already done. Boy, that was fast!!! I probably won't bemoan the passing of that volume as I did the original one, though. I find it odd if they are cancelling it with #12, that the second trade of the series only collects up through #11. -M
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Post by earl on Jan 13, 2020 21:33:44 GMT -5
Last issue is a stand alone tale, so it probably could be put in with something else down the line. It's in my pile to read.
Ron Garney's Conan story would have looked good in the magazine, he went heavy on the black. Always liked his stuff, but his style worked real nice with Conan. By his age, I'd figure he would be a fan.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 14, 2020 0:08:20 GMT -5
I don't think Conan will last long as a monthly book... I was suprised they had 2 titles and the minis to start with, to be honest... it hasn't been a big seller since the 70s.
I wonder if Savage Avengers will be all we'll see Conan in after the Serpent War crossover happens.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2020 0:35:35 GMT -5
I don't think Conan will last long as a monthly book... I was suprised they had 2 titles and the minis to start with, to be honest... it hasn't been a big seller since the 70s. I wonder if Savage Avengers will be all we'll see Conan in after the Serpent War crossover happens. Well they already announced Jim Zub as the regular writer of the Conan the Barbarian title after Aaron's run ends and he has said he has long range plans for it. Plus, Marvel just renewed my subscription on CTB, so it isn't cancelled yet. They did not renew my Savage Sword sub (both were set for auto-renewal). -M
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 14, 2020 8:21:06 GMT -5
That's good... maybe it'll get to issue 24 at least
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Post by brutalis on Jan 14, 2020 8:25:57 GMT -5
That's good... maybe it'll get to issue 24 at least Can't see Marvel cancelling the MAIN Conan series, unless to start over with a new #1 of a new team. Other Conan's can come and go regularly but true Conanphiles want that "regular" series of adventures to collect.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 14, 2020 8:29:35 GMT -5
Which we all know Marvel doesn't care about. So far, the plan seems to have been let Aaron have his fun with the character while reminding readers he's cool, then get him integerated into the main Marvel universe.
You're probably right... there's a fair chance Jim Zub taking over will generate a new #1
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Post by Nowhere Man on Jan 18, 2020 18:12:27 GMT -5
At the wise old age of 42 I've come to the realization that it's futile to bemoan the creative directions taken by multi-billion dollar corporations who just happen to own and control the fate of once beloved properties like Conan. The only REAL Conan tales are the ones written by Robert E. Howard (NOT the pastiches) and anything other than that, that happens to come close to that level of quality, is simply icing on the cake. I expect most modern Conan stories to miss the original creators nuances and philosophical interests and consequently be mediocre Conan stories. Outside of the Howard tales (of which not all are classics) I've liked Roy Thomas' Conan stories and not much else. I like the first Arnold Conan film as a rough adaptation, but it was far from ideal. Modern Marvel is clearly convinced that Conan will only succeed in today's market if he's closely tied to the mainstream Marvel Universe given the extremely limited tastes of their core readership. I disagree with this and think Marvel simply has never put much effort or had much interest in fostering a comics lines outside of their superhero fair (DC has done a much better job over the years) but that is what it is.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 23, 2020 9:34:10 GMT -5
The curse of those who wait for the trade is that they're always late to the party. I just started the Aaron/Asrar take on Conan yesterday, and while the first issue was quite decent, I would posit that a Conan book needs an editor who's versed in Howardian lore. This book's creators can be proud of its good story and beautiful art, with good dialog and some proper references to the Hyborian age world, but as in so many cases over the decades when it comes to Conan stories not written by Roy Thomas (or Kurt Busiek, Fred van Lente or Tim Truman), a few hiccups distracted me from enjoying the tale to the fullest. Yes, I realize that being obsessive about the internal consistency of fantasy stories is a bit childish and silly. That's comic-book fandom for you. If I seem critical, it's not because my childhood has been ruined or anything; it's just that I grew used to Roy Thomas' or Kurt Busiek's level of scholarship when it comes to Conan. Let's start with what I really liked. The idea of a story spanning the Cimmerian's whole life, while sounding just like what Aaron did when he started writing Thor, is a pretty good one for restarting the Conan book at Marvel. The first few pages with their collage of classic panels, along with the famous "Know, O Prince..." text, is a great reintroduction; it really says "Look, kids, Conan is back!" I loved that. The map was also beautiful. I love maps of fantasy worlds, and the one of Conan's world has originally been drawn by Robert Howard himself. The version seen here avoids drawing borders too precisely, which is great because that's definitely how borders worked back in antiquity. Full marks up to this point. The story itself follows a traditional path; evil witch, dark god returning to Earth, Conan is a badass, that kind of thing. Par for the course, but Aaron's dialog is as engaging as Asrar's art looks good. Very good, in fact, in its earthiness. No fantasy swords, no ridiculous armours, no psychedelic architecture, no Hulk-like men or Lady Death-like women; this is a world I can believe in. It doesn't top Cary Nord gorgeous designs based on historical ones, but it's among the very nice-looking takes on Conan's world. I could have cheered out loud when a Zamoran thief invokes the god Bel. Excellent job, Mr. Aaron!!! Too many Marvel writers from the bad old days of the '80s used every Hyborian age god indiscriminately, not acknowledging that different regions have different pantheons. Bel is indeed a god worshipped in Zamora, so full marks here. There are a few wrong notes too. First, young Conan is introduced as a pit fighter in Zamora. Oy vey... Once again, echoes from the John Milius film taint the comic. Young Conan was a thief in Zamora, not a gladiator. Yes, sure, one can multi-task... but there is a world of difference between the two careers, and here Conan is clearly just a gladiator. New readers won't care, and in fact they would have no reason whatsoever to even notice... but I'm an old reader, this is my review, and to me this is as relevant as Daredevil not having started his career with a red costume. The progression of the character from a starveling thief to a more seasoned warrior is an integral part of his early story, and here it seems to be simply sidestepped . Props to Aaron, however, for pointing out that Conan's sword skill is rudimentary at this stage in his career! I'd be delighted if future issues show that young Conan is a very pedestrian rider (pun unintended) and can't use a bow yet. Geographical and historical tidbits: Conan complains about the weather being as hot as in Shem, and he's said to have travelled all along the Kings' Road. Wellllll... Nit picking time. (First it's called the Road of Kings and not the Kings' Road, grumblegripe grumblegripe). Conan hasn't travelled the Road of Kings yet; he arrived in Zamora from the north, via Hyperborea and Brythunia, while the Road of Kings stretches in an east-west direction. Furthermore, at this point in his early life, he has not yet been in Shem. A dude in the fighting pit is using a spear made of "wood from the Isle of Skelos". Now that would surprise me, as the Isle of Skelos is uninhabited, and was unknown to Conan (and everyone else apart from a few wizards) until he reached it in SSoC #40, when he was in his mid- to late-thirties. Several pages later, King Conan wins a great battle on the eastern border of his kingdom against the forces of Turan. That, well... that is either an error (Turanians wouldn't reach that far west for centuries, according to Howard's The Hyborian Age), or an extrapolation of the events from Don Kraar's run on Conan the King, in which the king of Turan was scheming against the distant kingdom of Aquilonia. So... even if it contradicts Howard's prose, it agrees somewhat with the comics' continuity. Whatever be the case, any confusion would have been avoided by using Nemedians or Ophireans instead of Turanians as the vanquished enemies. (Or Picts... Picts are always a good source of plot-mandated conflict, although the fight would have occurred in the west of Aquilonia rather than the east). Final mark: something like four stars out of five. I look forward to the rest of the story, and a peek at issue #4 was thrilling: it has gorgeous Gerardo Zaffino art, looking much like his father Jorge's, and the one issue of SSoC that Jorge drew is one of the best-looking of the lot!
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