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Post by berkley on May 11, 2020 21:09:56 GMT -5
I haven't read any of Morrison's Marvel stuff - did he work on anything else for them besides X-Men? - and only two or three things from his DC work, so this could be totally off-base, but, I get the impression that he really loved the DCU, especially its two big iconic heroes, Batman and Superman, while Marvel was always a very secondary consideration for him. As I say, this is more from interviews, etc than from the books thmeselves, so I could have it all wrong. But anyway, it gives me the feeling that when he was writing things like the JLA or All-Star Superman, he was trying his best to capture the essence of the characters as he saw them, whereas with the X-Men - but also with less important (to him) DC characters such as a the New Gods - he took a more cavalier attitude: he didn't have that same personal connection with them and seems to have felt free to play around with them regardless of wheteher it made any sense or not to the core concept.
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Post by Batflunkie on May 11, 2020 21:19:19 GMT -5
Those covers, with the Falcon sharing the cover, reminded me of a terrible, terrible change - the change by Englehart of the Falcon's origin, changing him into a former pimp or whatever it was, 'Snap' Wilson. I like Englehart's work overall, but that was unforgivable! I thought it was an interesting twist, but totally out of character in more ways than one. I can't believe I'm saying this but Red Skull actually did something good in his life for once 
Adding to the thread, I thought Cap becoming a commercial artist in order to pay rent was a tad odd |
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Post by EdoBosnar on May 12, 2020 4:26:43 GMT -5
I agree with dbutler69: Englehart's retcon of Sam/Falcon was completely and utterly wrong-headed (and among other things, a tad racially insensitive) and, yes, unforgivable. J.M. DeMatteis made a commendable effort to fix the damage in a few back-up stories in Captain America in the early 1980s. On the other hand, I thought Cap getting a day-job and moving into that rooming house was a really positive development. I liked that he had normal, everyday concerns, and it added some interesting supporting characters to his cast. It also led him to meeting Bernie Rosenthal, who I still think is by far his best love interest. |
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Post by badwolf on May 12, 2020 9:29:57 GMT -5
Puck not being a real dwarf but an old guy whose body was used as a prison for some demon and magically shrunk because... er... demons keep better when shrink-wrapped? Complete nonsense that deprived us of a great and believable character. I'll cover this in my Alpha Flight thread, but there is a case for Puck being older than he looks. The Razer/shrinkage stuff was stupid, though. On a related note, I hated Byrne's redesign of Aurora. I get that the point was to break her off from Northstar, but UGH. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on May 12, 2020 10:45:32 GMT -5
Puck not being a real dwarf but an old guy whose body was used as a prison for some demon and magically shrunk because... er... demons keep better when shrink-wrapped? Complete nonsense that deprived us of a great and believable character. I'll cover this in my Alpha Flight thread, but there is a case for Puck being older than he looks. The Razer/shrinkage stuff was stupid, though. On a related note, I hated Byrne's redesign of Aurora. I get that the point was to break her off from Northstar, but UGH. I don't mind Puck being somewhat older than he appeared; he was introduced as a guy with a mysterious past (à la Wolverine or Corto Maltese) so revealing that he had partaken of Fu Manchu's elexir vitae or something would have been par for course. He had also met Logan "in Paramaribo", very likely during the latter's pre-X-Men days, so Puck was definitely no spring chicken. I look forward to your covering that in your Alpha Flight thread! I didn't mind the redesign of Aurora, myself, but I thought her having the same outfit as her brother's made more sense since their powers could work synergitically. I did mind the idea of Walther being dead then coming back as a soul possessing the body of Snowbird in the form of a white Sasquatch, though! What a contrived and utterly silly concept! |
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Post by badwolf on May 12, 2020 11:32:37 GMT -5
I didn't mind the redesign of Aurora, myself, but I thought her having the same outfit as her brother's made more sense since their powers could work synergitically. I did mind the idea of Walther being dead then coming back as a soul possessing the body of Snowbird in the form of a white Sasquatch, though! What a contrived and utterly silly concept! Well, the thing about Aurora's changes was that Walter did some sciencey mumbo-jumbo and changed her powers and physiology as well, so that she could use her light powers on her own. Mostly I hate that she cut her hair! *sigh*
The reveal about Sasquatch (no spoilers here) was a great one but everything after it was a train wreck. And yeah, I was so pissed that they killed off Snowbird!
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Post by beccabear67 on May 12, 2020 11:52:16 GMT -5
I liked the earlier Aurora as well, there weren't really too many other matching siblings like that at Marvel... so this lost something a bit unique trying to be more unique?  There was a second sasquatch in a later series of Alpha Flight that was supposed to be a real one. He/it was sabretoothed...  Some thought at first he was the original Sasquatch changed, but he wasn't. www.marvunapp.com/Appendix4/sasquatchafii.htm |
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Post by rberman on May 12, 2020 18:42:26 GMT -5
I haven't read any of Morrison's Marvel stuff - did he work on anything else for them besides X-Men? - and only two or three things from his DC work, so this could be totally off-base, but, I get the impression that he really loved the DCU, especially its two big iconic heroes, Batman and Superman, while Marvel was always a very secondary consideration for him. As I say, this is more from interviews, etc than from the books thmeselves, so I could have it all wrong. But anyway, it gives me the feeling that when he was writing things like the JLA or All-Star Superman, he was trying his best to capture the essence of the characters as he saw them, whereas with the X-Men - but also with less important (to him) DC characters such as the New Gods - he took a more cavalier attitude: he didn't have that same personal connection with them and seems to have felt free to play around with them regardless of wheteher it made any sense or not to the core concept. AFAIK Morrison's only Marvel work was New X-Men, which he wrote from 2001-2005. Morrison read mid/late-70s DC growing up, so that's where his heart lies. As you say, it shows in his work. I have come to take a fairly cavalier approach to canon myself, so I don't mind if one writer treats Morrison's previous work as canon and another writer contradicts it completely. I did appreciate the efforts of Claremont (who was concurrently writing X-treme X-Men to try to sync up his issues with whatever Morrison claimed was going on. But what Morrison was doing was more interesting than what Claremont was doing. |
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2020 18:47:31 GMT -5
I haven't read any of Morrison's Marvel stuff - did he work on anything else for them besides X-Men? - and only two or three things from his DC work, so this could be totally off-base, but, I get the impression that he really loved the DCU, especially its two big iconic heroes, Batman and Superman, while Marvel was always a very secondary consideration for him. As I say, this is more from interviews, etc than from the books thmeselves, so I could have it all wrong. But anyway, it gives me the feeling that when he was writing things like the JLA or All-Star Superman, he was trying his best to capture the essence of the characters as he saw them, whereas with the X-Men - but also with less important (to him) DC characters such as the New Gods - he took a more cavalier attitude: he didn't have that same personal connection with them and seems to have felt free to play around with them regardless of wheteher it made any sense or not to the core concept. AFAIK Morrison's only Marvel work was New X-Men, which he wrote from 2001-2005. Morrison read mid/late-70s DC growing up, so that's where his heart lies. As you say, it shows in his work. I have come to take a fairly cavalier approach to canon myself, so I don't mind if one writer treats Morrison's previous work as canon and another writer contradicts it completely. I did appreciate the efforts of Claremont (who was concurrently writing X-treme X-Men to try to sync up his issues with whatever Morrison claimed was going on. But what Morrison was doing was more interesting than what Claremont was doing. He also did Skrull Kill Crew and a Marvel Boy series for Marvel Knights I believe.  -M |
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Post by Icctrombone on May 12, 2020 19:00:18 GMT -5
I remember that Marvel boy mini being surprisingly good. There was an epilogue to it in the Illuminati mini series.
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Post by berkley on May 12, 2020 21:44:13 GMT -5
I couldn't care less about canon, myself. More often than not, it's the canonical version that's the problem, as far as my personal tastes go. But just making stuff up at random because you don't have any particular vision of a character is always a lame cop-out, to my mind.
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Post by electricmastro on May 12, 2020 22:25:43 GMT -5
Zatanna changing to these costumes.  |
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Post by badwolf on May 13, 2020 11:33:17 GMT -5
Morrison also did Fantastic Four 1234 which I loved.
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Post by rberman on May 13, 2020 12:02:17 GMT -5
That's what I love about this forum. When I say something incorrect, I learn about new comics I can order!
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Post by mikelmidnight on May 13, 2020 12:25:52 GMT -5
I have always hated the incorporation of the Eternals into the MU. The MU already had a hidden civilization of superhumans (Inhumans), an explanation for the gods of myth (Mighty Thor), 30's tall space gods (Galactus, the Elders), and an explanation for human evolution (Darwin, or possibly the Monolith depending how you take Machine Man's origin). The Eternals were redundant in every way.
There was one story I loved as a result of it though: Roger Stern's amalgamation of Makkari with the Golden Age heroes Hurricane and Mercury. Both of the latter fit awkwardly in Marvel continuity anyway, it deepened the history of the likeable character Makkari, and it was a nice tribute to Kirby by gathering together all of his god-speedster characters into one.
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