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Post by Nowhere Man on Oct 16, 2014 6:55:55 GMT -5
I mainly purchase collected editions these days. Say what you will about the comics industry in general, but this is clearly the Golden Age of collected editions. I was wondering if anyone else seriously collects classic material in trades and and hardcover, particularly those that still collect single issues as well. Do any of you bind comics?
Currently, I'm into three Fantagraphics series: Carl Bark's Duck Comics, Hal Foster's Prince Valiant and Walt Kelly's Pogo. I'm also getting into Marvel Masterworks softcovers (I prefer softcovers) and so far have Vol.1 & 2 of Doctor Strange and Vol.1 of Captain America. The new Epic line has me interested, particularly since you get more issues per collection. I purchased the most recent Spider-Man collection that collects the first 17 issues of Lee and Ditko's Amazing Spider-Man (plus annual). If I like it better, I'm probably going focus on the Epic line and forgo the Masterworks.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Oct 16, 2014 7:20:19 GMT -5
I agree with you that it's pretty sweet how easy it is these days to get older material. I wouldn't say I focus on any one particular thing... I'm more of an oppertunistic shopper. If I see something I want to read for a good price, I grab it. I do really like the Epic line, it's a big improvement over the b&w essentials, IMO. YOu're still not paying much more than $1 an issue, and you're getting them in color . Masterworks look great on the shelf, but they are pricey... I stick to grabbing them from discount bins and when they're on sale... I like to pay $15-$20 for them I hope DC follows suit at some point with something like epic.. they started to with the 'Chronicles' books, but for whatever reason (bit it sales, editorial mandate, or whatever) they fizzled out.
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Post by Earth 2 Flash on Oct 16, 2014 7:34:46 GMT -5
I have switched to all-digital all the time in this past year. However, in the previous years I was buying almost all collected editions. I love the DC Archives and especially the Absolute Editions. I like the DC Classic Comics Library, but it does seem kind of pricey.
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Post by The Captain on Oct 16, 2014 8:07:56 GMT -5
I do collected editions in various forms.
I'll buy the Marvel Omnibus editions if I can get a good deal on them; I've never paid full retail for any of the four I own, and I've paid as little as 50% of retail for one of them. I'm pretty sure I'm going to get the Fantastic Four volume 2 as soon as I can save the money for it and find a copy at a price that I like.
I also buy Masterworks (only if discounted, except for a couple of the older, out-of-print ones), as I've been looking to complete some older series but don't want to outlay the cash for the floppies. For example, after picking up the first Avengers Omnibus, I got the next 6 Avengers Masterworks to complete the run of stories to issue 100; I'll still grab floppies in that stretch if the price is right, but I have the story to read now. Usually I get the Hardcover versions, but I've gotten a few Softcover if the price is too good to pass up (I've gotten some as cheap as $8) or if I just want to read the stories (I bought two Captain America softcovers that covered some of the ToS stories as well as issues #100-113 of his solo series because I have high-grade copies of the floppies and didn't want to read them for fear of damage).
I'm not a fan of the Essentials format because of the lack of color. However, I checked out one of the Epic collections at the LCS a couple of weeks ago and that might be a way to go for me, particularly for titles like Amazing Spider-Man.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 10:46:34 GMT -5
I agree with you that it's pretty sweet how easy it is these days to get older material. I wouldn't say I focus on any one particular thing... I'm more of an oppertunistic shopper. If I see something I want to read for a good price, I grab it. I do really like the Epic line, it's a big improvement over the b&w essentials, IMO. YOu're still not paying much more than $1 an issue, and you're getting them in color . Masterworks look great on the shelf, but they are pricey... I stick to grabbing them from discount bins and when they're on sale... I like to pay $15-$20 for them I hope DC follows suit at some point with something like epic.. they started to with the 'Chronicles' books, but for whatever reason (bit it sales, editorial mandate, or whatever) they fizzled out. Most of the Epics I have are $34.99 for 18 issues of material, so closer to $2 an issue not $1, and if you add sales tax it's $2+ an issue. If you buy from Amazon, maybe less, but at MSRP it's $2/issue. Still not bad. I do get collections, some series I do in collection, some in individual issues. Any Golden Age material I have is usually in collection (the exception being things like Millennium editions or other facsimile editions). I have a lot of Essentials and Showcase editions, a handful of Marvel Masterworks and DC Chronicles editions, very few DC Archives and one Marvel omnibus. My favorite collected editions to "collect" are the old Fireside book collections from Marvel Siegel & Shuster Books (origins. Son of Origins etc.), the Tempo DC paperbacks, and other little 70s collections form the pre-TPB days. I have a few hundred various trades as well. Pretty much anything post-2005 or so that I pick up to read that I decide I want to keep long-term, I will eventually get in trade and get rid of the individual issues. I prefer individual issues on some older stuff because those issues have character (the ads, letters pages, editorial pages, etc.) that add value to the reading experience and aren't included in most collections. Those features are absent in most modern comics, so unless there is something about the individual issue that adds value to the reading experience, I prefer trades (two examples of that-Brubaker includes essays in the backmatter on pulp topics and such in Fatale and Fade Out that don't go into trades, and Greg Rucka adds a lot of backmatter about world building details about the corporate families that populate the world outside his immediate story in Lazarus that aren't in trades, both of which make the individual issues worth getting over the regular trades). -M
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 12:51:12 GMT -5
I'm strictly collected editions (and Marvel Unlimited).
With Marvel, I tend to go with whatever's the best value. With DC, I only buy TPB and HC now, because I hate the binding on there omnibus line. Planetary is the only DC omnibus I currently own, and that was because it was cheaper than buying the crossovers separately. I don't have any of the Epic line yet, but I'll probably grab Doctor Strange and I'd like to fill in what I'm missing from Avengers.
I wish all collected editions were done like the BPRD omnibuses.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 15:44:43 GMT -5
I buy mostly trades and hardcovers these days. Today I bought the hardcover edition of Usagi Yojimbo Saga vol. 1. I may preorder volume two in hardcover this weekend as well. Fantagraphics has a TON of stuff I want. Particularly the EC collections with the slip cases. Dark Horse has a lot I'd like to get too, the Library Editions. I may go exclusively trade and hardcover soon since I'm tired of hunting down moderns and paying premiums for a comic that came out just the other day because it's sold out.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Oct 16, 2014 19:52:02 GMT -5
I agree with you that it's pretty sweet how easy it is these days to get older material. I wouldn't say I focus on any one particular thing... I'm more of an oppertunistic shopper. If I see something I want to read for a good price, I grab it. I do really like the Epic line, it's a big improvement over the b&w essentials, IMO. YOu're still not paying much more than $1 an issue, and you're getting them in color . Masterworks look great on the shelf, but they are pricey... I stick to grabbing them from discount bins and when they're on sale... I like to pay $15-$20 for them I hope DC follows suit at some point with something like epic.. they started to with the 'Chronicles' books, but for whatever reason (bit it sales, editorial mandate, or whatever) they fizzled out. Most of the Epics I have are $34.99 for 18 issues of material, so closer to $2 an issue not $1, and if you add sales tax it's $2+ an issue. If you buy from Amazon, maybe less, but at MSRP it's $2/issue. Still not bad. I do get collections, some series I do in collection, some in individual issues. Any Golden Age material I have is usually in collection (the exception being things like Millennium editions or other facsimile editions). I have a lot of Essentials and Showcase editions, a handful of Marvel Masterworks and DC Chronicles editions, very few DC Archives and one Marvel omnibus. My favorite collected editions to "collect" are the old Fireside book collections from Marvel Siegel & Shuster Books (origins. Son of Origins etc.), the Tempo DC paperbacks, and other little 70s collections form the pre-TPB days. I have a few hundred various trades as well. Pretty much anything post-2005 or so that I pick up to read that I decide I want to keep long-term, I will eventually get in trade and get rid of the individual issues. I prefer individual issues on some older stuff because those issues have character (the ads, letters pages, editorial pages, etc.) that add value to the reading experience and aren't included in most collections. Those features are absent in most modern comics, so unless there is something about the individual issue that adds value to the reading experience, I prefer trades (two examples of that-Brubaker includes essays in the backmatter on pulp topics and such in Fatale and Fade Out that don't go into trades, and Greg Rucka adds a lot of backmatter about world building details about the corporate families that populate the world outside his immediate story in Lazarus that aren't in trades, both of which make the individual issues worth getting over the regular trades). -M Yeah, but I'd never pay full retail... DCBS, if you order them the month they come out, offers them at 40% off, which is $21 for the $35 ones...sometimes even 50%. Most internet retailers will offer close to that and free shipping. I know what you mean about the ads and stuff... I'm definitely happy to get regular issues, but I'm happy enough getting titles that are less valuable that way, and trades for the popular (thus, expensive) stuff.
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Post by Nowhere Man on Oct 16, 2014 23:40:09 GMT -5
I buy all my trades at instocktrades. The new Thor Epic collection is discounted at $17.49 dollars, so you're getting 50% off. That said, the discounted price seems like the right price point. You get, I think, 27 "issues" with the new trade (which collects the first 27 or so Journey Into Mystery issues) which comes out to around 13 standard issues. I'm all on board for paying under $1.50 per issue. I can't see the justification for the retail price of $40 bucks other than "because we can." The only time classic reprints should be marked up and inflated, in my opinion, are the Omnibus editions that are limited items. I can understand that, but not standard trade paperbacks.
I do hope that Marvel goes ahead and sees the Epic Collection through to completion. I realize that they're all about making money, but there is really no excuse for Marvel or DC to ever allow their most iconic series to go out of print. I get that it's not feasible to keep Cloak & Dagger or Deadman's complete library in print, but Spider-Man, the Hulk, Avengers, the Justice League, etc., ? Come on.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Oct 17, 2014 21:49:05 GMT -5
I agree, and having said iconic series in a logical, easy to follow,consistent format, rather than the piecemeal nonsense they have now would be amazing.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2014 22:42:34 GMT -5
I don't see why it isn't feasible to have Cloak & Dagger perpetually in print.
Pretty sure plenty of publishers keep plenty of material in print perpetually. I don't think Marvel likes storing stock, so they print what will sell through, and when the retailer runs out is when it's out. Companies like Fantagraphics will print up stock and store it and offer it for sale until it runs out, then print more. What's so hard about print five hundred, sell five hundred, and repeat? The logistics of storing it all is a matter of one warehouse and maybe three employees. Doesn't sound like much of a problem for Disney. I'm betting as floppies become less popular and trades become more popular their selection and availability will improve. They've stomped their feet at trades and alternatives to the direct market just like they have with digital, and those are the two markets with the most growth. I think what they need is to put someone in charge who is more a fan of money than a fan of comics, who won't try to preserve the atmosphere of the 90's at the expense of market share.
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Post by Nowhere Man on Oct 18, 2014 3:38:17 GMT -5
Yeah, I was being generous. Marvel and DC should be forced by government mandate to keep their entire line in print. It's irritating that DC let the first volumes of the Batman and Superman Archives AND Chronicles to go out of print. Batman and Superman?!
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Post by wildfire2099 on Oct 18, 2014 20:20:07 GMT -5
You're underestimating the difficulty and cost of keeping inventory, Dupont... it's not just having a building and someone watching it.. you have to track it, ship it, re-order when necessary, etc... it gets more complicated and more expensive the more titles you have. It's not like a single store, where you can have 1 of each, you're talking at least a case or two of every trade they have to make it make any sort of sense.. that's ALOT of space if you're trying to keep every comic ever around.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2014 0:50:32 GMT -5
Yeah, I was talking a big warehouse.
Inventory software is not a big deal either, and a couple guys with scanning guns tackling wrapped pallets with barcodes on them isn't a big deal either. I'm not suggesting they distribute them individually like Fantagraphics does. Pallets of 150 or so, however many fits on a pallet. When Diamond sells through, ship them another pallet, then have another pallet worth printed.
If I'm underestimating how difficult it would be for Marvel to do it, how do you think other publishers manage to do it?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2014 1:20:05 GMT -5
Yeah, I was talking a big warehouse. Inventory software is not a big deal either, and a couple guys with scanning guns tackling wrapped pallets with barcodes on them isn't a big deal either. I'm not suggesting they distribute them individually like Fantagraphics does. Pallets of 150 or so, however many fits on a pallet. When Diamond sells through, ship them another pallet, then have another pallet worth printed. If I'm underestimating how difficult it would be for Marvel to do it, how do you think other publishers manage to do it? Most publishers don't have the infrastructure in pace to do it, and most rely on simply selling the books to other distributors once they are printed. Marvel (and most other publishers) are not book distributors-that's not their business model. Fantagraphics chose that business model out of necessity-they weren't selling enough copies of their stuff to make it worthwhile for others to handle it, but they had o print enough to take advantage of economy of scale to keep publishing costs affordable, so they had to do something with the overstock and play the long game. Most publishers do not want that end of the business because it is not a profit creator in and of itself. It's high cost and low return unless you're infrastructure and business model are in place for it. It's grunt work and most of these folks are sales and creative folks, not blue collar product handling or middle management supervisor types. Could they do it, sure, but the fact they choose not to is an indicator that it is not cost effective to do so when other cheaper options are already out there. Publishers are under no obligation whatsoever to keep their stuff in print. They are all looking for evergreen sellers, and when they occur, most take advantage of it, keeping them available, but most collections have a limited shelf life, just like any other book product. For every Harry Potter series or Lord of the Rings book that stays perpetually in print and sells, there are literally thousands of titles that never sell out of their first printing. Publishers have to choose where to tie up their capital and which products to invest in long term, and which to put out there for a single printing sell through. If it took them 2 years to sell out the first printing of 50K copies, probably 75% of those sales came in the first 3-6 months and after that it was a trickle of sales (which is the typical sales curve of the bulk of non-evergreen print products, usually after a year or so the rest of the print run is remaindered anyways and sold off for whatever pittance they can get for it). Why would they go back to print on it? Demand had slowed and they weren't going to get a big sales push on the initial release this time. Sometimes, demand can increase as time passes and a book is out of print, building up so you do get a good initial sales push (back in print for the first time in X number of years marketing helps that), but without that fallow period, a new printing will be a sales dog. If a product s sales curve follows a different path-i.e. a quicker than expected sell-out or steady sales throughout the printing with no major dip in demand through the life of the print-run, then these are the books they will go back to press on. Print runs that take years to sell and only trickle out of the warehouse or distribution house tie up capital too long, and these types of business need quicker product turnaround to keep the capital liquid and available to keep producing new products. There are a lot of factors to consider-have production costs gone up since the last printing? Does the cover price need to increase to cover additional costs and the factor of economy of scale as the print run is probably smaller than the last one, so costs more before material, storage, or transport cost increases are factored in. How will the higher cover price affect demand and sales-if sales were slowing towards the end, will it sell at all at the higher price point? Will they still make their money back in a reasonable window or will the new printing sales fizzle out leaving them with a bunch of unsalable product. Marvel already has year end sales to Diamond to clear out their unsold trades and rock bottom prices-sometimes Diamond passes those deals along to retailers, sometimes not, but if they are basically remaindered the unsold portion of the first print run, there is no way they will be going back to press on that book. With the advent of digital, making every book essentially an evergreen book in terms of availability without storage costs and management, I think you will likely see more books go out of print rather than less, as it becomes less feasible to keep borderline sellers in print as well, when what little demand there is can be met digitally. But yeah, there are so many factors than do they have the storage facility to keep the boos in print to store them at play in this, and getting such a facility is the easy answer-it's not. It's not even part of the reason why they let books go out of print. -M
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