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Post by MWGallaher on Jun 26, 2020 9:47:00 GMT -5
I was completely unaware of the Target's guest-starring with Batman elsewhere, so thanks for pointing that out. Next up I'm going to be looking at some of the characters who could have appeared in B&B, but for whatever reason, didn't. Several of them, both the obvious and the unexpected, did get their shot at a Batman team-up outside the pages of B&B, as did the Human Target, but I think we missed out on a lot of good possibilities. And as soon as I find the opportunity, I'll interrupt my current secret cover contest challenge to use an Hourman cover!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2020 10:05:25 GMT -5
Bravo! Well done sir.
-M
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Post by Prince Hal on Jun 26, 2020 10:24:39 GMT -5
Loved every minute of your recaps, MWGallaher! Frustrating, but fun! i've done similar self-challenges on the Cover Association game, but have never taken it to this level. A kudos to you! Looking forward to the follow-up. I'm sure you'll be mentioning the only member of the original JLA never to team with Batman: the Martian Manhunter. Considering some of the more or less forgotten or fringe characters who did show up (Rose and the Thorn? Two straight issues?), it was a major oversight not to include him.
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Post by brianf on Jun 26, 2020 12:43:23 GMT -5
Fun thread, thanks for sharing the trials and tribulations of your limitations
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Post by foxley on Jun 26, 2020 21:17:37 GMT -5
I was completely unaware of the Target's guest-starring with Batman elsewhere, so thanks for pointing that out. Next up I'm going to be looking at some of the characters who could have appeared in B&B, but for whatever reason, didn't. Several of them, both the obvious and the unexpected, did get their shot at a Batman team-up outside the pages of B&B, as did the Human Target, but I think we missed out on a lot of good possibilities. And as soon as I find the opportunity, I'll interrupt my current secret cover contest challenge to use an Hourman cover! I just checked. The Human Target appearances are Batman #349-352, with a cameo in Detective Comics #515.
Now I'm going to have start figuring out your new challenge.
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Post by MWGallaher on Jun 27, 2020 6:21:48 GMT -5
Who’s Missing?Despite a long list of co-stars in The Brave and the Bold, they couldn't get around to everybody in B&B's 136 issues of Batman team-ups. First off, let’s focus on the glaring omissions, the characters who, if you were drafting a list of likely co-stars based only on your awareness that a Batman team-up title existed between the mid-60’s and early 80’s, you’d probably guess would have been featured at least once. Long-running features, historically significant characters, highly popular and/or successful headliners at DC in the 60s-70s. Starting off, of course, with... Martian Manhunter: J’onn J’onzz was the only original member of the Justice League of America who never had a guest-starring role with Batman in B&B. According to the letters page, a three-way with Batman, J’onn, and Green Arrow was one option considered for B&B #150, teaming the Caped Crusader with the pairing that kicked off the team-up format. But the Manhunter from Mars was inactive for most of B&B’s heyday. When he did return, it was in the pages of a Batman/Superman team-up in World’s Finest (following a few backups and one Superman-only team-up. So he did team with Batman, but only alongside the WF headliners. Did we miss out? I have to think so. It offends my sense of order and completion not to have all of the original JLA represented in the book. Jimmy Olsen: Jimmy was the only Superman Family long-running headliner who never got a B&B guest spot. This seems like it would have been a likely idea in the earliest days of the Batman team-ups, but once the Neal Adams issues started appearing, Olsen was way off, tonally, from the kind of material B&B was typically presenting. The post-Kirby “Mr. Action” period Jimmy might have fit in, but really, why bother? Seeing one of DC’s weakest features propped up with a Batman team-up seems rather pointless. Did we miss out? Not in my opinion. Jimmy wouldn’t bring any visual appeal, and without Superman, wouldn’t bring much to a pair-up, either. Shazam!: A Captain Marvel team-up is another that must have been considered. When DC was trying to match the whimsical, cartoony approach of the original, it wouldn’t have seemed like a good fit, but when the character was restyled with a more contemporary, serious approach, a B&B guest appearance was certainly feasible. Did we miss out? The “serious” Captain Marvel is not a big favorite with most comics fans, so I don’t think so. The Challengers of the Unknown: One of the biggest surprises is that this long-running team never got the nod for a guest spot. Their cancellation in the early 70’s may have influenced their absence, but DC was frequently trying to revive them; why not give them some additional prominence in B&B? As non-powered adventurers, even a quartet wouldn’t have overshadowed Batman’s lead. Did we miss out? I have to say yes. Putting Batman into a traditional COTU encounter with a bizarre menace could have been a lot of fun. Batgirl: Since there was plenty of opportunity to team with Batgirl in the usual places like Detective and Batman Family, it’s not surprising that B&B didn’t waste an issue on Barbara Gordon. Did we miss out? No, it would have been little more special than a Batman & Robin team-up in B&B. Robin only appeared in very special circumstances here, and maybe a fitting role could have been found for her, but not as the lead co-star. Warlord: Maybe Mike Grell kept this character on too tight a leash to loan him to B&B for a month, but it seems like a team-up they must have considered. Sending Batman into Skartaris seems like just the thing that might have happened in a B&B. Did we miss out? Probably not. Warlord had a purity, off in its own world, that I think its fans appreciated. Jonah Hex: As I mentioned earlier, if Scalphunter, why not Hex? Probably only because Conway was writing Scalphunter, and two western team-ups was too much to consider. Did we miss out? Yes. If we’re going to have some time travel stories, Hex would have to be high on the list, and could have been a stand-out among the oddball and unexpected B&B stories. Did I miss an obvious “big gun” in this post? I’m sure we’ll disagree on what features should have been top considerations, but I’ve got lots more to go! Continuing, I’ll be looking at some of the less prominent features we might have seen in an alternate universe B&B, like members of the Justice Society, licensed characters, 70’s sensations, and characters from non-superhero genres. I was completely unaware of the Target's guest-starring with Batman elsewhere, so thanks for pointing that out. Next up I'm going to be looking at some of the characters who could have appeared in B&B, but for whatever reason, didn't. Several of them, both the obvious and the unexpected, did get their shot at a Batman team-up outside the pages of B&B, as did the Human Target, but I think we missed out on a lot of good possibilities. And as soon as I find the opportunity, I'll interrupt my current secret cover contest challenge to use an Hourman cover! I just checked. The Human Target appearances are Batman #349-352, with a cameo in Detective Comics #515.
Now I'm going to have start figuring out your new challenge. The number one entry is in this week's contest! This one will be a lot easier on me, and there should be very few weeks (if any) I can't participate in, running through the end of the year.
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Post by MWGallaher on Jun 29, 2020 6:11:04 GMT -5
The Missing JSAers: There were surprisingly many appearances from members of the Justice Society as Batman co-stars in B&B. We got Dr. Fate, Wildcat, Black Canary, and the Spectre, as well as some of the then-contemporary Earth-2 JSA next generation (Robin and Huntress). In the case of the Spectre and Wildcat it was never clear whether these were Earth-1 incarnations or the originals, and that didn’t matter to Bob Haney. It’s a familiar open question in comics fandom, and I don’t have any particular insights of value. They were apparently popular co-stars, and there must have been some value, at the very least, in using cover logos to maintain active trademarks. So let's look at the ones who never got called up:
Dr. Midnite: If I could have magically added one issue to the run, I think a Batman/Dr. Midnite story would have been it. Haney did a few stories in which Batman was physically incapacitated--losing the ability to walk in #100, becoming brain-dead with the Atom "driving" his body from within the Batman's brain--and maybe I've forgotten one, but I don't think he ever had the Caped Crusader temporarily blinded. That would have been a good opportunity to call on the only superhero he knows with experience in dealing with that condition. Even though Midnite's goggle inventions granted him vision, he would have been an appropriate coach in a story that teased the possibility that Bruce Wayne was now permanently "blind as a bat."
Hourman: Rex “Tick-Tock” Tyler would have been welcome in the pages of B&B, too. I could easily imagine an issue centered around a one-hour time limit that had Batman teaming with the Man of the Hour racing to prevent some critical calamity. I've been reading through Hourman's original appearances in Adventure Comics, and they were pretty awful, but the premise always seemed strong to me when I'd see him in the JLA/JSA annual events.
Sandman: Wesley Dodds seems to have appealed to many fans in the 70's, when a gas-masked, double-breasted suit-wearing superhero looked like an exotic novelty. He'd fit easily into a Batman team-up, maybe something revolving around haunting dreams plaguing Bruce Wayne, shaking his confidence and preventing him from collaring someone he's pursuing.
Starman: Ted Knight's the only one of these guys I remember making a substantial supporting appearance in an issue, but he never got the co-star status. I had the impression that DC, in the 40's, 60's, and 70's, had more confidence in his appeal (and in the trademark "Starman") than the previous three on the list, but that's probably just a reflection of the lesser appeal he had to me, personally. The green-and-red suit, in particular, turned me off a little, but I probably would have gotten a kick out of seeing him show up.
Did we miss out? In every instance, I'd say yes. All four would have been appealing co-stars whose premises lent themselves well to the kinds of stories Boltinoff, Haney, and Aparo created in B&B.
There were, of course, other characters of the Justice Society that could have appeared, but seem to me to have too limited appeal (Mr. Terrific, who seemed pretty corny in the 70's) or were tonally out of sync with the B&B vibe (Ma Hunkle, Johnny Thunder). The biggest stars of the JSA (Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, Flash, Hawkman, Atom) were represented by their Earth-1 doppelgangers, which was a sensible approach for a series that didn’t dwell on the dual Earth premise. Why specifically choose the Alan Scott GL unless you’re doing a story that specifically calls for Earth-2? What does the Earth-2 Wonder Woman bring that you can’t do with the current Wonder Woman?
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Post by MWGallaher on Jun 29, 2020 7:47:47 GMT -5
70’s Stars:
DC tried out several new concepts in the 1970's, when The Brave and the Bold was in its prime. Let's consider a few of the concepts that headlined their own titles or were the cover-billed leads who might have been assigned a pair-up with the Batman:
Orion and/or the New Gods and/or the Forever People: Of all of Kirby’s major mid-70’s creations, this is conspicuous by its absence, but would have been a harder fit than Mr. Miracle, since these features were much more focused on Kirby’s core mythology. Maybe Gerry Conway could have worked his version from “Return of the New Gods” into a team-up, but I certainly wouldn’t have been interested. Did we miss out? No, the New Gods were operating too far outside of the B&B comfort zone. I wouldn’t have minded an appearance, but I don’t regret it not happening, especially since the other crossovers tended to disappoint.
Sandman: Simon & Kirby’s fantasy dream-master could have worked well. An entire adventure taking place in a dream actually sounds pretty cool to me. Did we miss out? I’ve always loved this guy, so despite the juvenile tone of his solo series, I wish they’d given this one a try.
O.M.A.C.: I don’t know how they’d have justified a co-starring slot when the book had been canceled, the lead character decommissioned in-story, took place in a future inconsistent with the established DCU, and DC showed no interest in revival. Did we miss out? No. O.M.A.C. worked well in his isolated corner of Kirby’s World That’s Coming. I never wanted his crossover with the DCU.
Black Orchid: It would have been really cool to see DC’s woman of mystery get a co-starring slot. Her feature never took off after its three issues headlining Adventure Comics. I’d have liked seeing her stumping the world’s greatest detective! Did we miss out? Yeah, a little female diversity, a nifty premise, great logo, definitely an opportunity that should have been taken.
Mera: According to Paul Levitz, a Batman/Mera team-up was written by Bob Haney in around 1979, but was never drawn. Did we miss out? Yes, literally. It’d be great if DC could actually publish a lost B&B, even if it was just the script. Evidently Levitz has the copy he discovered when he was cleaning out his office. Maybe it wasn't very good, and that's why it was killed, but there's interest among 70's fandom in those unfulfilled efforts! Please, let us see this somewhere, somehow!
Kobra: DC was experimenting with several villain-based series in the 70’s, with Joker, Secret Society of Super-Villains, and the unpublished Gorilla Grodd series, so Batman and Kobra was a possibility. As I mentioned before, I got tired of the villain co-stars in B&B after the Joker's first memorable guest role, and justifying a genuine team-up with the leader of a murderous cult is a little harder to do that declaring a truce with the Riddler for one adventure. Did we miss out? No, we kind of got this, with Batman tying up the loose ends from Kobra’s cancelled comic in DC Special Series #1. It wasn’t a “team-up”, but I doubt a B&B story would have been much of one, either.
The Freedom Fighters: B&B didn’t go for teaming Batman with larger groups unless there was a clear implication of the team’s subordination to Batman’s maturity or inherent superiority. The FF might have seemed to outclass the Caped Crusader, although we all know he was head and shoulders above this team of losers, who I’ve always derided as one of the most awkward teams this side of the Inferior Five. I mean, think about it, you had one guy trying to fight in a top hat, one guy in a bulky hazmat suit, one guy too small to see in most panels. The team was too broke to have any cool technology, and only two of them could fly, so the team traveled with the two of them having to carry the others along through the air. One of the flyers wears a costume with such prominent snagging hazards that he'd probably kill himself in a collision with a tree within 2 days of adventuring. The leader is an old man with white hair, one of the team wears clingy pink silk, one of them has the super-power to make it so the reader can't see the action through the "black light" projector. It makes you realize there's a skill to putting together a viable team; you can't just take all the memorable heroes published by a specific company and declare them a team. Well, obviously, you can, but it doesn't mean you'll have a team worth wasting comic book pages on. Full disclosure: I bought every blasted issue off the stands. I wasn't nearly as critical or perceptive to flaws in the 70's. Did we miss out? Do you really have to ask?
Coming Soon: Supernatural and War Features
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Post by MWGallaher on Jun 29, 2020 21:48:41 GMT -5
The War Features:
We got several crossovers with DC's war comics in B&B. Sgt. Rock always teamed with the Earth-1 Batman (even, inexplicably, in their first team-up, placing the contemporary Batman in World War II! Oh, that Bob Haney and his disdain for continuity!). Most of Rock's appearances were set in current days, featuring an older WWII vet. The other WWII heroes teamed up with the Earth-2 Batman, who was active in the 40's. I assume the popularity of the Rock issues inspired them to try out the others (Blackhawk and Unknown Soldier); what if these had inspired other guests from the war comics? The most likely contenders for B&B appearances were:
The Haunted Tank: As I mentioned before, I think this was a missed opportunity to do a contemporary Earth-1 issue with the spirit-haunted tank in Gotham.
Did we miss out? Yes. As much as I loved seeing the contemporary Sgt. Rock show up, a Haunted Tank appearance would have been even more of a thrill, even though I wasn’t reading many of the war comics during the 70’s.
The War That Time Forgot and/or Creature Commandos: Most of the WWII-era team-ups in B&B played it straight, but I think these more fantastic war-time features would actually have been a better match.
Did we miss out? Yeah, I’d have taken these over Unknown Soldier and Blackhawk any day.
Enemy Ace: Well, we kind of got this one in Detective Comics #404, from Denny O’Neill, Neal Adams, and Dick Giordano. Probably a better story than we’d have gotten back when Haney and Adams were the creative team. I think of this as an honorary B&B issue, the last and only word on a Batman/Enemy Ace team-up. So we didn’t miss out, at all.
The Losers: This consolidation of three failed war features into one has proven to be one of my favorites, but I almost never read it while it was being published. As one of DC’s top four war series in the 70’s (with Sgt. Rock, Haunted Tank, and Unknown Soldier), it would have been an option for a B&B installment.
Did we miss out? I really don’t think so. The Losers didn’t have a lot of unique qualities to bring to a Batman team-up; it would likely have been a routine war story.
Gravedigger: One of DC’s later efforts at a war series, this African American soldier had a decent run headlining Men of War. A B&B appearance wouldn’t be out of the question if the war crossovers had been as popular, in general, as the Sgt. Rock appearances evidently were.
Did we miss out? Probably not, but I wouldn’t have objected.
There were quite a few other war series, of course, but given the limited attention given to this variety of team-up in B&B, I doubt anyone ever dreamed of having Mlle. Marie, Viking Commando, O.S.S. Spies at War, Rosa, Code Name: Falcon, the Fighting Devil Dog, Lt. Hunter's Hellcats, Balloon Buster, or Dateline: Front Line on the cover of B&B.
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Post by Prince Hal on Jun 30, 2020 12:21:53 GMT -5
Love the insights here, MWGallaher, especially on divining the reasoning behind the choices made for B and B. It's obvious that quite a few co-stars were often from new series, perhaps faltering series (Superboy; I, Vampire); others were simply established characters whose presence wouldn't cause a drop in sales; a couple were fill-in/ inventory stories to use up... the only explanation I can think of for a Karate Kid appearance five years after his ill-fated title ended, unless it was for the old reliable trademark reasons; and a couple seemed like vanity projects, with Exhibit A the Rose and Thorn two-issue story I mentioned earlier that must have been the result of quite a sales job by Kanigher.(Although Cary Burkett wrote the second part.)
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Post by MWGallaher on Jul 1, 2020 7:58:24 GMT -5
Love the insights here, MWGallaher , especially on divining the reasoning behind the choices made for B and B. It's obvious that quite a few co-stars were often from new series, perhaps faltering series (Superboy; I, Vampire); others were simply established characters whose presence wouldn't cause a drop in sales; a couple were fill-in/ inventory stories to use up... the only explanation I can think of for a Karate Kid appearance five years after his ill-fated title ended, unless it was for the old reliable trademark reasons; and a couple seemed like vanity projects, with Exhibit A the Rose and Thorn two-issue story I mentioned earlier that must have been the result of quite a sales job by Kanigher.(Although Cary Burkett wrote the second part.) Great observations, Hal! I believe Bob Haney made some comments on guest slot rationales but they were unconvincing; I don't know if anyone ever fessed up to "sausage factory" justifications such as trademark maintenance, which had to be the case in at least a few situations, like maybe Ragman. Haney surely played favorites fairly often, with characters like the otherwise inexplicable Wildcat. Or maybe he and Boltinoff thought (rightly, I believe) that Wildcat had the potential to be a breakout star. (One of the mostly-unrealized story-generation advantages that Wildcat had was that as a former heavyweight champion, he had accessibility over a broad spectrum of the culture. He'd be equally welcome at a billionaire's ball or a rural fish-fry or a crime-ridden ghetto or a political fundraiser.) I intend to take a closer look at the most popular guests a little later in the thread. In the later years, when the book had a revolving slate of writers, the variety really increased a lot, and I think many writers were considering many of the same things I'm pondering here as they looked over the long list of characters who had never been given a shot. The Supernatural So now, let's move on to consider some of the creepier characters who might have been called up for duty in the co-star slot alongside Batman. Spawn of Frankenstein: Digging a little deeper into the minor features of the 70’s, this failed Phantom Stranger backup feature still would have been a neat one to pop in for an issue. The monster hero crazed flamed out suddenly, as anyone who read the letter column for Man-Bat #2 will recall, but DC had a more intelligent take on the Monster that I wish they could have done more with, and Jim Aparo did a bang-up job on the character when he crossed over from back-up to sharing the lead story in Wein and Aparo’s final Phantom Stranger collaboration, so a return in B&B would have appealed to me. Did we miss out? Heck yeah, Batman vs. Frankenstein? How could that not have stood out on the stands? Mr. E: In the last few years of B&B, we got a lot of fresh faces, so why not Mr. E? Mr. E’s gimmick in the series he headlined in Secrets of Haunted House was that he was a blind monster hunter. Did we miss out? Yeah, a little supernatural adventure was never unwelcome, and Mr. E had a good visual, strong logo, and interesting gimmick. I’d have been up for it! It might have been fun to see Mr. E’s regular artist, Dan Spiegle, step in for fill-in to handle the art. Spiegle doesn’t feel like a great match for a typical Batman, but he could do such beautifully moody “sets” that I’d be happy to gamble on him being able to handle the Caped Crusader in the right atmosphere. Come to think of it, I’d have nominated him to fill in with a Golden Age Sandman team-up, too. He did the character once, very effectively. Johnny Peril: Around the same time as Mr. E was hunting monsters, we got a revival of Johnny Peril over in the Unexpected. With the spooky books faltering, most of them got ongoing features in an attempt to appeal to changing trends in comics fans. Johnny went way back to the 40’s, where he took over the lead in the “Just a Story” backup in Comics Cavalcade, moved over to augmenting the lead JSA stories in All-Star Comics, and came to Unexpected in the late 60’s, with a return to that stomping ground in the 80’s. Did we miss out? No, while Johnny probably has his fans, his plain clothes adventuring didn’t have enough impact to make the promise of a B&B appearance have any appeal. Dr. 13: A sentimental favorite of mine, but it’s easy to see why Terrence Thirteen wouldn’t have been considered, being more of cerebral operator than an action hero.Thirteen was the lead in Ghosts during the same era as Mr. E and Johnny Peril, although he had the benefit of co-starring with the Spectre for three installments. Did we miss out? The general public, maybe not, but I’d have liked to have seen it. Aparo had history drawing the character when he was the supporting player in Phantom Stranger, and even if Thirteen wasn’t an especially action-oriented player, drawing the Batman into one of his ghost-breaking jobs would have compensated. Mark Merlin: B&B revived a forgotten character a time or two, so it’s feasible to imagine that it might have been the place to undo Merlin’s transformation into the embarrassing and widely-ignored Prince Ra-Man, Mind-Master. Did we miss out? Nope. I’m amazed that Mark Merlin ran for as long as it did in House of Secrets. I haven’t read much of it, but what I’ve read was tame, and it’s impossible to conceive of a character less visually interesting. The House of Secrets: And speaking of House of Secrets, could Able’s House have made an appearance after his brother Cain’s? Did we miss out? I find it hard to imagine how this would have been any different than the House of Mystery “team-up”, and that was one they didn’t try to repeat. Why bother? This doesn’t exhaust the possibilities, but going further enters territory that I doubt would ever cross the minds of B&B’s creative crew: The Enchantress? Green Glob? Patchwork Man? I don’t think so...
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Post by MWGallaher on Jul 2, 2020 5:41:51 GMT -5
Neglected 60’s Drop-outs:
DC did turn to one or two of its moribund 60's concepts for a Brave & Bold revisit, so let's now look at some of the feasible choices that might have been:
Dial H for HERO: The hero with an endless variety of identities lay fallow for quite a while during the B&B era. Although the series had a juvenile tone, I could see a more serious take happening in a Batman team-up.
Did we miss out? Yeah, I think we did. It might have been a good place for Robby Reed to retire the dial or, alternatively, to graduate to greater prominence under Batman’s guidance.
Immortal Man: A variation on Dial H, but instead of a kid, a man who had lived for centuries, reviving with a new set of powers each time he was killed in action.
Did we miss out? I was going to say no, since the character was executed pretty tepidly under Jack Schiff’s poor editorial competency with super-hero comics, but I’m immediately seeing a story where Batman investigates the death of a man who he discovers has revived with mysterious super-powers, so an interesting story could surely be built around this team-up, but I-Man lacked any visual appeal, had zero name recognition, and didn't make much sense, conceptually: not only would he reborn with new powers when he was killed, he was reborn as an adult man with an existing past history--how does that work, exactly?
Inferior Five: I initially dismissed this out of hand as unthinkable, but is it, really? I wouldn’t have put it past Bob Haney to treat these misfits like an ignored part of the shared universe.
Did we miss out? Hmm, I wouldn’t have wanted to see them turned into sad sacks like Haney did with Plastic Man, another feature in a similar vein during its mid-60’s run, but the more I think about it, the more I wish we could have seen a superhero farce in B&B.
Nightmaster: DC’s first sword & sorcery hero had a short tryout in one of the later issues of Showcase and then disappeared for decades. The character’s lack of connection to the DC Universe made him easy to forget in the 70’s and 80’s, when it was all about the connected continuity between titles.
Did we miss out? If Batman can travel through time to team up with Kamandi and Scalphunter, why not one issue of fantasy adventure? There was always a thrill to seeing an unfamiliar logo appear on B&B back when fans didn’t have easy access to information about all the abandoned DC features from the past, and I know I would’ve dug it!
Cave Carson: He headlined the book a few times, but never teamed up with Batman. Cave specialized in exploring the higher-than-expected population of underground monsters, civilizations, and hidden alien visitors living under the surface of Earth-1.
Did we miss out? Batman’s a “cave man”, so having the Mighty Mole discover the Batcave sounds like the obvious kick-off to a team-up! I say “yes”, we missed out on a potentially fun issue!
Sea Devils: The scuba fad had died out by the time Batman was pairing up with DC’s slate of heroes, but the Sea Devils had had a decent run. They didn’t have much of a fan base, though, or exciting visuals, or a compelling purpose to revisit them in a new light, or even an eye-catching logo to make them have enough appeal to be brought up as a potential gang of co-stars.
Did we miss out? Aquaman was the safer choice whenever there was an underwater adventure to be had, so no, I don’t think we missed much.
Rip Hunter: DC’s Time Master might have been due for a trademark renewal and slotted in for a B&B appearance. Batman might have been recruited for a critical role in a journey in Hunter's Time Sphere.
Did we miss out? I think not. Time travel’s fun when Batman’s going to team up with someone that operates in that era. Rip Hunter would just be a taxi to the past or future.
The Secret Six: I also mentioned these guys earlier in the thread, a team that would have fit well into a B&B Batman team-up. The Secret Six were insignificant and forgotten, but the Challengers must surely have been considered as possibilities now and then.
Did we miss out? Yes, indeed. Just imagine this one being offered to Alan Brennart, who tied the bow so memorably on the Hawk and the Dove! Imagine the Six exhausted by a decade of dangerous, compelled missions, in a story finally resolving the mystery of Mockingbird (who better than Batman to put all the clues together?).
This certainly doesn’t exhaust the possibilities: there’s Manhunter 2070 (more time travel!), Johnny Double (too mundane), Dolphin (too obscure), Angel and the Ape (comical, but without the superhero aspect that would make I-5 remotely feasible), B’wana Beast (nope!), Jason’s Quest, and more.
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Post by MWGallaher on Jul 8, 2020 5:42:25 GMT -5
I think that covers the most feasible B&B guest stars we didn't see, so now let's take another look at the ones who did get their chances to team up with Batman, from the perspective of number of appearances. One and Done:Twenty-seven co-stars appeared as co-stars only once, most of those happening after Bob Haney left the series as regular scripter after #152. In the Haney era, there were (only) seven co-stars he didn’t get around to repeating:- Eclipso
- Bat-Squad
- House of Mystery
- Richard Dragon
- Sherlock Holmes
- Unknown Soldier
- Superman
Eclipso and Unknown Soldier were familiar to Haney, as he’d scripted their solo features. Eclipso’s solo feature home base, House of Secrets, was cancelled shortly after his very early B&B appearance in Batman’s second lead team-up position (following the first with Green Lantern, five issues prior). Unknown Soldier’s guest appearance was probably weakly received, as there was decreasing crossover between the war comics fans and the superhero comics fans in the mid-to-late 70’s, but in any case, Haney was gone from B&B by the time a second appearance would have been feasible. Superman’s appearance was a special event in #150; a repeat wouldn’t have made sense since the team was appearing routinely over in World’s Finest, often under the scripting of Haney. Sherlock Holmes was, like Superman, a surprise guest-star in the B&B Special, so a repeat appearance would not have been expected. Bat-Squad was Haney’s own creation, and I will always wonder how these nobodies were deemed worthy of the co-star slot in the first place. Clearly, the concept of a British plain-clothes Batman support team didn’t take off enough to encourage a repeat. House of Mystery seems like something they’d have tried again, but it’s a challenge to make this feel like a B&B team-up rather than the mildly-spooky Batman solo story that the one HOM issue came across as. Richard Dragon probably appeared only in an attempt to garner some attention for his flagging solo title, which was gone by the time he might have come in for a second appearance. Post-Haney, 20 of the remaining 48 issues introduced new characters to the roster of B&B co-stars. In order of appearance:- Red Tornado
- Doctor Fate
- Ra’s Al Ghul
- Black Lightning
- Blackhawk
- Zatanna
- Scalphunter
- Guardians of the Universe
- Lois Lane
- Elongated Man
- Legion of Super-Heroes
- Hawk and Dove
- Robin of Earth-Two
- Riddler
- Huntress
- Superboy
- I...Vampire!
- Ragman
- Catwoman
- Karate Kid
That's a pretty high percentage, reflecting a pretty significant editorial change toward more variety, experimentalism, promotion, and fan/writer service. We've got some "very special issues" here, with Alan Brennart's Earth-II farewell to Hawk & Dove, the stories of the Earth-II Batman's marriage to Catwoman, and an encounter with Robin of Earth-II (followed by Mike W. Barr's Huntress). There's the curious case of cover-billing the Guardians in part one of what would typically have been billed as a Green Lantern team-up, which suggests an intent to establish trademark. Denny O'Neill spotlights his creation and favorite villain Ra's Al Ghul, the neglected active satellite era JLAers get their turns. There' some apparent trademark maintenance with moribund characters Karate Kid and Ragman. Over all, I recall appreciating the new variety, although most of the fill-in issues with random writers and average artists didn't appeal to me, even with interesting co-stars like Doctor Fate. The Legion showed up often in fan requests on the letters page; I doubt that many of them were pleased with what we got. Most of these co-stars were at least worth a try, and some were among the best issues B&B had to offer. I'm sure some readers would have been happy if the last 50 issues hadn't had any returning co-stars; as we've seen previously, there were certainly enough potential guests to make that a possibility. Earth-1’s Robin and the Earth-2 Batman are special cases; though each of them were specifically cover-billed as a co-star with the Earth-1 Batman only once, Robin’s cover credit came only as part of an informal team of “4 Famous Co-Stars” in the 100th issue, and he also appeared in each of the Teen Titans’ co-starring installments. The original Batman was not only a co-star, but was the “lead Batman” in a few stories set on Earth-2 and/or in World War II. I should also acknowledge three of the series' best-remembered co-stars, although they didn't receive their own logos: Jim Aparo, Bob Haney, and Murray Boltinoff themselves, who assisted Batman and Rock in the bonkers issue #124.
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Post by Prince Hal on Jul 8, 2020 9:55:25 GMT -5
Speaking as someone of a certain age who for all kinds of reasons explained elsewhere loved Brave and the Bold, your posts about it continue to be great fun, MWGallaher. I wonder if Slam_Bradley can drop in and explain the ins and outs of maintaining the ownership of a trademarked name or feature. I'm curious if it's required to have the character's name on the cover or if an appearance inside is enough. (I'm guessing it's the former.) Then we might be able to see a relationship between that deadline and the month a particular forgotten or moribund character appeared in B and B. I wish there were some source that provided monthly circulation figures, which would help to show spikes associated with various co-stars. The Metal Men, for instance, were frequent co-stars in B and B early on, with the Atom, then Metamorpho, and then Batman. No mystery there; the Metal Men had proved an unlikely hit and sold well during the Silver Age, and they were a fun group to team with. (Especially for a hero of similar goofiness like Metamorpho!) A great cover: Then, though they had been without a title for three years or so, they reappeared in #103.(Was that for trademark reasons, maybe?) My guess is that the issue sold well, because they showed up again in 113 and 121. My guess is that someone wanted to test the waters after a good showing in 103, and liked what they saw in ensuing appearances, because the Metal Men got their own title again a year later. Then they got back-to-back appearances (135-36) during that revival, I'm guessing in an attempt to boost their sales. Somebody, or a few somebodies must have really had a soft spot for the Metal Men. It didn't help, tough, because the title only lasted three issues after B and B 136.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jul 8, 2020 10:49:33 GMT -5
I don't know the ins and outs of trademark law the way I do copyright because it has never interested me as much. I do know that Trademarks are maintained as long as they're used and defended. What "use" means is a little fuzzy (at least to me) but since trademarks apply to names, logos, symbols, etc. I would say that, if not required, that cover appearance is a stronger use of the trademarked name, in this case Metamorpho and Metal Men, along with their logos.
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