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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 18, 2020 18:15:40 GMT -5
I'm no expert in comic book grading. As a matter of fact, I have always bought comics to read and never cared to " preserve " them in mint like condition. I have always did my best to not rough them up but I have to be able to read everything I buy without fear. Lately , I have been buying many Thor books on eBay and the condition determines the price. I thought that most of the books that I have acquired were Good to very Good. Yesterday I watched a YouTube video by Crimebuster and he was showing some books that he got off the internet. He rated a book that looked pretty good to me as 2.5. I was surprised , but maybe my standards are low. As long as the book is attached with both covers and nothing cut out, I'm inclined to call it "good" . collectibleshop.tripod.com/overstreet-grading-definitions.htmThe link I provided has the grading system provided by Overstreet and it classify's good as being in the range from 1.5 to 5. I couldn't call a book good with a detached cover or centerfold, but they do. What is everyone's opinion about the grading system and what kind of condition for a comic is acceptable to you ? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2020 18:30:03 GMT -5
Anything I own after 2000 is at least 9.4 Near Mint. I don't accept anything less.
Anything 1980-1999 is at least VF+ (8.5) but mostly NM.
Anything bronze...mostly VF up. A few 7.5s if it's a pricey book like Uncanny X-Men 94.
Anything Silver-Age...at least FINE 6.0. Most of mine are FINE-VF+ with about 10% NM
I don't mind VG for a Golden Age book.
It's all a matter of personal taste. Basically I relax my high-grade demands the older a book gets.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2020 18:40:10 GMT -5
And this is my lowest grade book, has a 1-inch tear in the lower cover. Still looks in nice shape for its age
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Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Jul 18, 2020 20:54:36 GMT -5
I enjoy grading my own books and like the current scale a lot. If any books are VF or better I am extremely happy. Personally there is no difference if I get an 8.5 or 9.4. I like to think I have a decent handle on the difference but both usually still look great to me so I am happy.
If it’s from 1980 to now I prefer VF or better and usually get that as books in those time periods are generally easy to find in that condition range. If is stumble on a hard to find book that’s lower I’d still keep it but that would have to be something like a first print TMNT or something like that.
If it’s from the 70s, I prefer Fine or better. Exceptions could apply.
If it’s 60s or older I take what I can get.
Certain flaws turn me off. Obviously missing coupons or pages are a no go. Popped staples and detached covers annoy me, as do very large stains. Although I have made exceptions on the stains if they are on back cover only. Or if a book was hard enough to find and older I would likely just live with it. Oh and if I can find a copy with a date stamp or even cool store stamp I’m elated.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2020 21:27:01 GMT -5
Oh and if I can find a copy with a date stamp or even cool store stamp I’m elated.
I love neatly placed date stamps....but not store stamps.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2020 23:36:26 GMT -5
Some unscrupulous dealers have 2 standards, one for grading books they are trying to sell, and one for grading books they are looking to purchase from a seller, grade up to sell, grade down to buy.
I used to grade some of the stuff that came in to the shop I helped out at 6 or 7 years ago. I tended to err on the side of undergrading when I wasn't certain (i.e. I was a little harsh when grading stuff)-I would rather the customer feel he/she got a deal as the book was in better shape than described than feel cheated for having overpaid for an inflated grade. The owner did not always agree. The books I graded tended to sell quickly. The stuff he graded sat on the walls unsold (especially since he got irritated if potential buyers tried to negotiate and made offers). I also stuck to the abbreviations (G, VG, F, VF etc.) and avoided using the numerical system (2.0, 3.5, 9.2 etc.) as I liked having a little more wiggle room in the grade as I have no pretensions of being a "professional" grader.
As for me as a buyer, all I care about usually is story complete and readable-if an ad page or something is missing and it doesn't interrupt the story, I don't care. I have a couple of pet peeves that I tend to avoid when I can. One is water damage. I tend to avoid these as they tend to have mold or mildew, and that leads to odors I prefer to avoid. A second is brittle pages, pages that crumble with handling are not very readable. I'm always a little annoyed when I grab something at a show and one of these two traits reveal themselves when I take it out of the bag. A lot of older stuff I get is G-VG, some of it presents better, but as long as it is a solid readable copy and the price is right, I am good with it.
I do have some coverless stuff, either gotten free or super cheap (like $10 for a short box of them), but most are intended for decoupage or craft projects, not for collecting. I will read some though especially if it's stuff I was curious about but haven't gotten otherwise (the last short box I got had a bunch of Sugar & Spike in it for example).
-M
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Post by beccabear67 on Jul 19, 2020 0:09:32 GMT -5
A second is brittle pages, pages that crumble with handling are not very readable. -M I am all about the paper quality, nothing worse than something fragile (or stained, or with any sign of rust on the staples). Supple and light colored paper is most important. I suppose tightness of the binding matters too but I'd rather have a comic with the center or cover loose that might be restorable than something that was perfect and has been kept bagged and boarded for decades yet is desiccated and tan on the edges like ancient mummy wrappings... I want to use them for what they were intended, looking at and reading.  I wish everyone used the OWL card with the measure of newsprint grading.  To be honest after seeing various golden age and even more recent comics that appeared to have been kept in mylars and mylites for a long time come out brittle and tanned (and with stains on the backing board even, especially modern comics with black back cover ads) I really wonder about using those, perhaps best just to change regular bags every few years and perhaps the boards too. I have no idea if they are adding inert atmosphere to these 'slabbed' encapsulated pro graded things, but if not depending on how they are stored they could also be miniature hot-houses doing more harm than good. Who can say that a comic graded and encapsulated is going to stay that grade inside there. It has seemed laughable that there would even be a market for most new releases given this treatment, but more power to them I suppose if there is, if people don't buy they would go away. I don't necessarily trust comic long boxes either that seem to be just plain old cardboard. I've always used shelves behind doors and drawers for anything rare/valuable. I've seen people look at these things under special lights with gloves on, but outside of Action Comics #1/Amazing Fantasy #15 type vintage rarities it seems an extreme. A solid, clean, complete, non-fragile copy is all anyone should want of most comic books, flawless should matter only for the couple handfuls or extremely historic books. If it's making them happy (or money) though, by all means proceed. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2020 0:29:23 GMT -5
A second is brittle pages, pages that crumble with handling are not very readable. -M I am all about the paper quality, nothing worse than something fragile (or stained, or with any sign of rust on the staples). Supple and light colored paper is most important. I suppose tightness of the binding matters too but I'd rather have a comic with the center or cover loose that might be restorable than something that was perfect and has been kept bagged and boarded for decades yet is desiccated and tan on the edges like ancient mummy wrappings... I want to use them for what they were intended, looking at and reading. I wish everyone used the OWL card with the measure of newsprint grading. To be honest after seeing various golden age and even more recent comics that appeared to have been kept in mylars and mylites for a long time come out brittle and tanned (and with stains on the backing board even, especially modern comics with black back cover ads) I really wonder about using those, perhaps best just to change regular bags every few years and perhaps the boards too. I have no idea if they are adding inert atmosphere to these 'slabbed' encapsulated pro graded things, but if not depending on how they are stored they could also be miniature hot-houses doing more harm than good. Who can say that a comic graded and encapsulated is going to stay that grade inside there. It has seemed laughable that there would even be a market for most new releases given this treatment, but more power to them I suppose if there is, if people don't buy they would go away. I don't necessarily trust comic long boxes either that seem to be just plain old cardboard. I've always used shelves behind doors and drawers for anything rare/valuable. I've seen people look at these things under special lights with gloves on, but outside of Action Comics #1/Amazing Fantasy #15 type vintage rarities it seems an extreme. A solid, clean, complete, non-fragile copy is all anyone should want of most comic books, flawless should matter only for the couple handfuls or extremely historic books. If it's making them happy (or money) though, by all means proceed. Well I know one prominent comic historian/collector/dealer who has some strong opinions on platic bags, mylar and CGC plastic holders, from RObert Beerbohm's FB page... Whether you agree or disagree with him is up to each individual. I would like ot see some of the science and if it backs up his claims, which on a surface level make some kind of sense, but I am no chemist. -M |
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Post by beccabear67 on Jul 19, 2020 0:43:44 GMT -5
Well I know one prominent comic historian/collector/dealer who has some strong opinions on platic bags, mylar and CGC plastic holders, from RObert Beerbohm's FB page... Whether you agree or disagree with him is up to each individual. I would like ot see some of the science and if it backs up his claims, which on a surface level make some kind of sense, but I am no chemist. -M I had no idea any of those "holders" were plain plastic, I've never owned one (I would probably want to break it open to actually look at the comic so why would I ever want a comic in one). I think the comics that I have gotten that were browning or tanning that came in mylars or mylites may very well have been put in them from spending most of their time in a non-archival bag. I guess I had imagined these "professionally graded" comics were in mylar and possibly had been at least vacuum sealed. Bill Cole used to advertise a process of adding some sort of inert atmosphere to a sealed mylar in '80s ads. I can see paying for something like that, what are people paying the CGC for? Just the grading and official looking printed strip? Normally a comic even in a mylar is still prey to humidity or lack of, and high temperatures, but sealed in these holders they would be protected only from liquid (and eyes and hands). |
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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 19, 2020 8:00:17 GMT -5
I guess I'm struggling with the word " good". In the regular world, good means
adjective, bet·ter, best.
1. morally excellent; virtuous; righteous; pious:
a good man.
2. satisfactory in quality, quantity, or degree:
a good teacher; good health.
3. of high quality; excellent.
In comic book grading " Good/ Very Good" may mean
Wear on book
may be detached on one staple
creases and dimples
Discoloration, fading , foxing, solied
pieces missing from the cover
spine split
tape
Tears in the interior pages
spine roll
That's a lot of flaws for something that is called good. I think what most people want in a book is Fine/ Very Fine 7.0.
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Post by MDG on Jul 19, 2020 12:07:07 GMT -5
I recognize three grades:
Really nice shape
Nice shape
Old comic book
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Post by brutalis on Jul 19, 2020 12:25:37 GMT -5
I must be the odd one out as "condition" isn't my foremost criteria. I dont shop high grade expensive comic book classics or non-classics. Never have, never will. I like mine intact with cover & insides in a good enough condition for reading. Minor wear and tear is expected because comic books are made for reading. Mint condition or other conditions are only a "term" that is used by sellers to increase resale value and higher pricing of used merchandise. I grade/rate my comic book collection on how much I liked the issue(s) and if it's worth keeping for reading again.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 19, 2020 13:01:43 GMT -5
I must be the odd one out as "condition" isn't my foremost criteria. I dont shop high grade expensive comic book classics or non-classics. Never have, never will. I like mine intact with cover & insides in a good enough condition for reading. Minor wear and tear is expected because comic books are made for reading. Mint condition or other conditions are only a "term" that is used by sellers to increase resale value and higher pricing of used merchandise. I grade/rate my comic book collection on how much I liked the issue(s) and if it's worth keeping for reading again. Totally agree, bro. My original query had more to do with my buying books that were in rough condition and the term " good " attached to it. Good in comic language , means what you posted- a well read book mostly intact. |
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Post by beccabear67 on Jul 19, 2020 13:25:07 GMT -5
In record collecting Very Good is considered high quality, but in comics it's fairly low. I will go VG+ if I can see the comic and anything wrong with it because I have had VG that were much better than expected, and sometimes VF-NM that were, er, not even close... so for anything early '80s or earlier I like to see pictures of the front and back and told anything unusual about it in terms of markings of damage. I have ordered '70s comics sight unseen from Lone Star and been happy with what I got, their FN is pretty solid, Newkadia has a grid that ticks off different defects on every comic in addition to an overall grade, you get to know some sellers and what their standard is I guess.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2020 13:53:00 GMT -5
I must be the odd one out as "condition" isn't my foremost criteria. I dont shop high grade expensive comic book classics or non-classics. Never have, never will. I like mine intact with cover & insides in a good enough condition for reading. Minor wear and tear is expected because comic books are made for reading. Mint condition or other conditions are only a "term" that is used by sellers to increase resale value and higher pricing of used merchandise. I grade/rate my comic book collection on how much I liked the issue(s) and if it's worth keeping for reading again. Totally agree, bro. My original query had more to do with my buying books that were in rough condition and the term " good " attached to it. Good in comic language , means what you posted- a well read book mostly intact.
To an indifferent seller, "good" is sometimes used to describe books in GREAT shape. I've sometimes bought books because the pics provided made the books look much better than the description....
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