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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 19, 2020 14:21:48 GMT -5
It also depend on How old the book is. I sell all my books and grade them as good but they are mostly fine very fine.
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Post by donaldg on Jul 19, 2020 14:50:01 GMT -5
In practice, with regards to comics grading terms, "Good" means "pretty beat up" but not beaten up as badly as "fair" or "poor." "Very Good" means "slightly less beat up than Good." A VG comic can be quite presentable, depending on the nature of the flaws.
In practice, based on the back issues I've received from a well-known mail-order chain, I often have difficulty differentiating between Fine and Very Fine.
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Post by String on Jul 20, 2020 10:36:28 GMT -5
Well, what qualifies someone as a 'professional' grader? The amount of issues you've critiqued? The specific grading scale used? I've been reading comics for 30 years now and I wouldn't call myself a professional grader so what does?
I don't care about the fine minutiae of the grading scales. When I'm looking to buy an issue, I simply look at the overall condition. If both covers are intact, staples are solid, pages are clean and decent, no signs of obvious damage (tears, cuts, water damage, etc) then to me, it's a good reading copy which is really all I'm looking for to buy. I don't even mind if there is some spine rolling.
If I'm selling issues then I tend to err on the side of caution and generally list my issues as Fine cause they would meet the criteria I've listed above for my buying the issues previously. However, grading is still a subjective decision even when using the same grading scale. What I may feel is a Fine issue, you may see as being merely Good. My problem has come from buyers who are specifically looking for NM-M copies when my ad descriptions do not and never will make such claims.
As for CGC, I do not own any slabbed books currently. I've never felt the need to do so but I've recently come across a possible exception. I found a new local dealer who had a longbox full of slabbed books at various grades. He had a copy of Flash #123 (Flash of Two Worlds) at a grade of 4.3, 4.4 I think. I made a mental note of it when I saw it but moved on. Later, I thought it might be worth buying. I have the DC Comics Library edition of that issue, there's been reprints of it, I can even read it digitally. So I've been thinking that, as a Flash fan, it would be nice to own a copy of the actual issue itself even at such a low grade because I'm never going to open it and read it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2020 12:19:51 GMT -5
As long as I've been collecting books, I don't think I can tell the difference in some of the increment grading, such as 5.0 or 5.5.
And I wouldn't waste time splitting hairs over it either.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2020 15:27:42 GMT -5
Well, what qualifies someone as a 'professional' grader? The amount of issues you've critiqued? The specific grading scale used? I've been reading comics for 30 years now and I wouldn't call myself a professional grader so what does? I don't care about the fine minutiae of the grading scales. When I'm looking to buy an issue, I simply look at the overall condition. If both covers are intact, staples are solid, pages are clean and decent, no signs of obvious damage (tears, cuts, water damage, etc) then to me, it's a good reading copy which is really all I'm looking for to buy. I don't even mind if there is some spine rolling. If I'm selling issues then I tend to err on the side of caution and generally list my issues as Fine cause they would meet the criteria I've listed above for my buying the issues previously. However, grading is still a subjective decision even when using the same grading scale. What I may feel is a Fine issue, you may see as being merely Good. My problem has come from buyers who are specifically looking for NM-M copies when my ad descriptions do not and never will make such claims. As for CGC, I do not own any slabbed books currently. I've never felt the need to do so but I've recently come across a possible exception. I found a new local dealer who had a longbox full of slabbed books at various grades. He had a copy of Flash #123 (Flash of Two Worlds) at a grade of 4.3, 4.4 I think. I made a mental note of it when I saw it but moved on. Later, I thought it might be worth buying. I have the DC Comics Library edition of that issue, there's been reprints of it, I can even read it digitally. So I've been thinking that, as a Flash fan, it would be nice to own a copy of the actual issue itself even at such a low grade because I'm never going to open it and read it. simply...professional gets paid for what they do, amateur does not. Skill level or experience doesn't come into it except if they lead to you getting paid and becoming a professional. That does't just apply to comic grading either... -M
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Post by MDG on Jul 20, 2020 16:13:27 GMT -5
Fun fact: In the first Overstreet guide I bought, this one.... ...books in NM were generally worth 3x the same book in Good. At that time, the only way to read most old comics was to buy an original. The last time I bought a guide, when reprints and digital versions were readily available, that differential had grown to 10x. At some point condition became much more important than content.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 20, 2020 17:00:26 GMT -5
I think most people that frequent this forum can tell the difference between a nm and good, the trick is differentiating between a Good and a fine. Or the subdivisions between fair and good.
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Post by donaldg on Jul 20, 2020 18:21:25 GMT -5
I think most people that frequent this forum can tell the difference between a nm and good, the trick is differentiating between a Good and a fine. Or the subdivisions between fair and good. Overstreet produces a separate guide to that, with lots of photos to illustrate the differences between the categories and sub-grades. A Good, for example, can have a half inch triangle or quarter inch square missing from the front or back cover and up to a two-inch spine split. A Fair, on the other hand, can have up to one quarter of the front cover missing or no back cover, but not both defects and the allowable spine-split for this condition is up to two-thirds of the length of the book. EDIT: Never mind, I misread you.
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Post by badwolf on Jul 22, 2020 10:06:26 GMT -5
I don't use the numbers. I have no idea what the difference is between 8.5 and 9.4. How do you even account for all the decimals in between? It makes my head spin. I just use the traditional grades.
When looking for books I prefer VF-NM, but like others have said I am willing to be more lenient with very old books.
Some flaws are more acceptable than others. A crease might be okay but a weird stain is not.
In book grading, "good" merely means the book is readable. I would never order a book in "good" condition. Even "very good" is dubious, considering many online sellers.
That quote from the guy about dipping your comics in motor oil is ridiculous nonsense. I've seen bags get old and yucky, but I've never seen any aging or deterioration to the comics caused by them. And even the lowest grade bag is going to keep your comic neater than just putting them loose in the box.
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Post by tartanphantom on Jul 27, 2020 22:05:49 GMT -5
Understanding accurate grading comes from understanding the criteria for each grade, and then being honest with yourself about how those criteria apply to the book you are grading. It's also extremely helpful to repeat the process over and over until you have trained yourself on what to look for at a glance. Grading a book is not difficult, and knowing your grading criteria is essential when you are buying on the fly at a shop or convention, if for nothing else but to understand whether you are over-paying for a book or not. Unfortunately, the slabbing industry has dumbed down lazy collectors and tends to drive interest in the speculator side of the game. To this day, CGC has never been directly forthcoming about their specific grading criteria, whether they follow time-tested Overstreet guidelines, or whether they just wing it from book to book with their own set of secret proprietary standards. I am one of those who is highly skeptical of anybody who has a financial incentive to grade a book higher than its actual condition, but that's exactly how the CGC game works-- the higher the grade, the more you pay. The simple fact that there are many, many instances where a book has been graded, then removed from its slab and sent in again and received a different grade is indicative of the fact that grading can be extremely subjective depending on the knowledge and honesty of the grader. Now, if you like paying for slabbed books, and don't want to be bothered with the effort of grading things yourself, then by all means, enjoy your slabs-- it's your money, spend it however you wish. Although I own a few slabbed books from some purchases and trades, I do not send books in for grading and slabbing, as I do understand Overstreet grading standards, and I do not need a third party to tell me the condition of my book. Because of this, I tend to under-grade more often than not to be on the safe side. A good comics dealer understands this approach, and also understands that fair, critical under-grading tends to pay long term dividends in increased sales. Too many people just want to make a quick buck to turn a hot book, not realizing that buyer remorse is often a very real thing, and if a dealer develops a reputation for sketchy grading and selling at top dollar, they are cutting their nose off to spite their face in the long run. Conversely, if a dealer develops a reputation for fair, honest grading and fair pricing, they will reap the benefits of repeat business. It's quite simple... A book doesn't HAVE to be priced at a rock-bottom price, but make the buyer at least FEEL like they're getting a small bargain by under-grading slighty and pricing the book accordingly. Finally, as inconvenient and unfair as it may sound, grading criteria are not variable based on the age of the book. A golden age book should have to meet the same criteria as a bronze age book in order to reach the same grade. However, because of this, lower-grade golden age books (e.g. 4.0 or lower) are more often readily accepted in the collecting community than bronze age books of similar grade. Personally, I don't get real hung up on grading in general, since I am not looking at my collection as an investment. However, I do have bottom-end cutoff standards, and generally will not purchase a book in a grade lower than 2.5-3.0 unless it has proven very difficult to come by. And I do try to buy the highest grade that I can reasonably afford. This comes more from my archivist mentality than from a net-worth standpoint. In almost everything I collect, I want to acquire the best specimen available within my budget. Also, I don't go crazy and wear gloves or use tongs to turn pages when I read books. My books are handled when they are read-- handled carefully of course, but I don't get anal about it. I don't fold the cover or roll the pages back, I don't dog-ear, and I don't eat while reading or handling them--basic common sense stuff for handling any book.
Obviously, people collect for different reasons. If you're not picky about grading, don't let it bother you if there others who are picky about it. Enjoy your collecting for what it truly should be-- a pleasurable pastime based on what makes YOU happy.
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