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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2020 17:31:44 GMT -5
How about the reverse for when reality intrudes upon sci-fi/fantasy? Like watching things of the past utilizing modern speech or slang? Current "trends" or concepts put into times or places where they wouldn't be known or even exist? This is a huge annoyance for me. The writers are either too ignorant to recognize that the faddish terms and verbal constructs they grew up with are just that - fads, or they know it's anachronistic or out-of-character but they think it's cute to do it anyway. I call it Friendsifying, because I first noticed it in '90s when Friends was popular (not that Friends was guilty of it, since it was appropriate for those characters, but I say Friendsifying when a character who shouldn't sound like a Friends cast member does sound like it), even though there's been plenty of post-Friends verbal nonsense added to pop culture since. Most recently, I thought Bendis was not too annoyingly Bendis-y in that Batman story he did recently, until I got to the issue where Jonah Hex mumbled "asking for a friend". I stopped right there, and it's going to be another couple of decades again before I can give Bendis the benefit of the doubt. (What's that? Why, yes, I am in fact a bundle of pet peeves. Why do you ask?)
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,222
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Post by Confessor on Aug 1, 2020 17:33:57 GMT -5
Yeah, anachronistic slang or phrases in the dialogue of period films, plays and literature are the worst. It's one of my biggest pet peeves too. It takes me right out of a story.
I mean, I realise that sometimes you have to modify really old historical dialogue for a modern audience, to a degree -- I mean, no one really wants a Robin Hood movie with authentic Middle English dialogue. But at the same time, any excessively modern slang or phrasing should definitely be removed to leave the dialogue sounding as timeless as possible.
But I encounter it even in dramas that are set in the middle 20th Century. You know, well within living memory, and at a time when spoken English was the same as today; so it's not like modern slang is needed to make the dialogue easier to folllow. I don't want to hear a World War II pilot saying that he's "super-excited" about something, or hear a 70s musician ask, "and how's that working out for you?", or have a journalist from the '60 start an explanation with, "here's the thing..." (to cite three examples I've seen recently). There's absolutely no excuse for it. It's just shitty writing, plain and simple.
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Post by jason on Aug 1, 2020 21:55:49 GMT -5
As a huge GI Joe fan, they were already injecting sci-fi LONG before Serpentor, like Zartan's holographic projections, tomax and xamot being able to feel each other's pain, and the Battle Android Troopers. Not to mention that Mindbender, even by Cobra standards, had an incredibly absurd look (yeah, thats the fault of the toy company, but still,,)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2020 7:01:06 GMT -5
I suppose that’s what I was getting at. As stated, everyone’s mileage varies. Zartan’s holographic projections and the like worked for me. Serpentor (who is a good character) was the ‘thing’ that made my brain take the leak from willing suspension of disbelief to accepting that the franchise had gone beyond reality.
I guess THE FAST AND THE FURIOUS has done something similar (I like that, too). First film was about street racing. Last film featured a lot that required major suspension of disbelief. I am convinced a future sequel will be set in space.
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Post by Cei-U! on Aug 2, 2020 8:49:03 GMT -5
In the same vein, it bothers me when the crime shows and police procedurals I love delve into the supernatural and/or paranormal, as in Gibbs being haunted by the ghost of his former partner on NCIS or the several near-death experiences experienced by members of the BAU on Criminal Minds. I especially hate it when these shows portray psychics as anything other than fraudulent or delusional (as I believe 99.9999% of them are). Bones was especially egregious in this regard.
Cei-U! I summon the pet peeve!
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Aug 2, 2020 9:48:01 GMT -5
In the same vein, it bothers me when the crime shows and police procedurals I love delve into the supernatural and/or paranormal, as in Gibbs being haunted by the ghost of his former partner on NCIS or the several near-death experiences experienced by members of the BAU on Criminal Minds. I especially hate it when these shows portray psychics as anything other than fraudulent or delusional (as I believe 99.9999% of them are). Bones was especially egregious in this regard. Cei-U! I summon the pet peeve! I don't watch any of those shows because they make me crazy and I make other people crazy picking them apart when they're on. So I don't know what kind of forensics they tend to get in to. A huge amount of what people think of as forensic science is as bad a junk as what the psychics are peddling. Bite-marks, handwriting analysis, footprints, tire-marks and blood-spatter are all absolute garbage that has no business being called science. Fingerprints were just as bad until recently, when there has been a bit of reform, but I still don't trust them and no expert I've seen has ever been able to define a margin of error in them, which is the basis of actual scientific analysis.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2020 12:30:21 GMT -5
Adding to Slam’s point, it seems lie detectors are treated as infallible in fiction, so much so that someone once asked me why courts don’t use them for every witness/suspect. I’m not a lie detector expert, but I presume that if they were infallible, they would be used in every courtroom in the land!
Someone my sister dated was the biggest liar I’d ever come across. He lied about having been in the fire brigade, he lied about his career, he lied about knowing people within sports, etc. Lying came naturally to him. I suspect he’d pass a lie detector.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Aug 2, 2020 12:51:24 GMT -5
Adding to Slam’s point, it seems lie detectors are treated as infallible in fiction, so much so that someone once asked me why courts don’t use them for every witness/suspect. I’m not a lie detector expert, but I presume that if they were infallible, they would be used in every courtroom in the land! Someone my sister dated was the biggest liar I’d ever come across. He lied about having been in the fire brigade, he lied about his career, he lied about knowing people within sports, etc. Lying came naturally to him. I suspect he’d pass a lie detector. Polygraphs are a problem in a lot of ways. They’re susceptible to operator manipulation and there are definitely people who can “beat” them. Another problem, from my end, is that polygraphs are required along with a psycho-sexual evaluation after a conviction or a plea in a sex offense case (in Idaho). In my experience Prosecutors believe every poly supports their side and any that don’t are crap.
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Post by String on Aug 2, 2020 15:06:00 GMT -5
In the same vein, it bothers me when the crime shows and police procedurals I love delve into the supernatural and/or paranormal, as in Gibbs being haunted by the ghost of his former partner on NCIS or the several near-death experiences experienced by members of the BAU on Criminal Minds. I especially hate it when these shows portray psychics as anything other than fraudulent or delusional (as I believe 99.9999% of them are). Bones was especially egregious in this regard. Cei-U! I summon the pet peeve! I don't watch any of those shows because they make me crazy and I make other people crazy picking them apart when they're on. So I don't know what kind of forensics they tend to get in to. A huge amount of what people think of as forensic science is as bad a junk as what the psychics are peddling. Bite-marks, handwriting analysis, footprints, tire-marks and blood-spatter are all absolute garbage that has no business being called science. Fingerprints were just as bad until recently, when there has been a bit of reform, but I still don't trust them and no expert I've seen has ever been able to define a margin of error in them, which is the basis of actual scientific analysis. Well, let's not forget the most basic oversight that happens in nearly every crime drama at some point, having a chalk outline of where the dead body was laying/found at the crime scene. Plus, it tries my patience whenever I watch a CSI show and seeing how they are able to get the lab results of almost any variety of test back within hours or a day or two. Yeah, I know we need to solve this week's crime in under 48 minutes but still makes me roll my eyes sometimes.
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Post by jason on Aug 2, 2020 17:41:37 GMT -5
Adding to Slam’s point, it seems lie detectors are treated as infallible in fiction, so much so that someone once asked me why courts don’t use them for every witness/suspect. I’m not a lie detector expert, but I presume that if they were infallible, they would be used in every courtroom in the land! Someone my sister dated was the biggest liar I’d ever come across. He lied about having been in the fire brigade, he lied about his career, he lied about knowing people within sports, etc. Lying came naturally to him. I suspect he’d pass a lie detector. Polygraphs are a problem in a lot of ways. They’re susceptible to operator manipulation and there are definitely people who can “beat” them. Another problem, from my end, is that polygraphs are required along with a psycho-sexual evaluation after a conviction or a plea in a sex offense case (in Idaho). In my experience Prosecutors believe every poly supports their side and any that don’t are crap. Which makes me wonder, is it possible to tell if someone is telling the truth by listening to their heartbeat (a la Daredevil), or is that fiction too?
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 2, 2020 18:19:10 GMT -5
I don't watch any of those shows because they make me crazy and I make other people crazy picking them apart when they're on. So I don't know what kind of forensics they tend to get in to. A huge amount of what people think of as forensic science is as bad a junk as what the psychics are peddling. Bite-marks, handwriting analysis, footprints, tire-marks and blood-spatter are all absolute garbage that has no business being called science. Fingerprints were just as bad until recently, when there has been a bit of reform, but I still don't trust them and no expert I've seen has ever been able to define a margin of error in them, which is the basis of actual scientific analysis. Well, let's not forget the most basic oversight that happens in nearly every crime drama at some point, having a chalk outline of where the dead body was laying/found at the crime scene. Plus, it tries my patience whenever I watch a CSI show and seeing how they are able to get the lab results of almost any variety of test back within hours or a day or two. Yeah, I know we need to solve this week's crime in under 48 minutes but still makes me roll my eyes sometimes. It's the same with any show dealing with a virus. Once the good guys isolate the virus, they have a vaccine by the end of the show! Our current situation shows how preposterous that is.
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Post by MDG on Aug 3, 2020 10:07:25 GMT -5
Yeah, anachronistic slang or phrases in the dialogue of period films, plays and literature are the worst. It's one of my biggest pet peeves too. It takes me right out of a story. Even worse in non-fiction--I'm reading a book that takes place in the 20s, and there's a reference to someone being surrounded by photographers and "flashcubes" going off. Similarly, in a podcast, it bugged the hell out of me when the host used the phrase "baby daddy" to refer to an event in the 30s.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Aug 3, 2020 11:02:52 GMT -5
Yeah, anachronistic slang or phrases in the dialogue of period films, plays and literature are the worst. It's one of my biggest pet peeves too. It takes me right out of a story. Even worse in non-fiction--I'm reading a book that takes place in the 20s, and there's a reference to someone being surrounded by photographers and "flashcubes" going off. Similarly, in a podcast, it bugged the hell out of me when the host used the phrase "baby daddy" to refer to an event in the 30s. Flash bulbs weren't even invented until 1929 in Germany. I don't think they were in wide use until the 50s, but I'm fine with being corrected about that. Cubes obviously didn't come in until the 60s.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2020 11:15:58 GMT -5
I can be distracted by such things, but not in the sense they’d detract from my enjoyment.
In an episode of BONANZA that I watched recently, Joe (Michael Landon) told a woman she was a “wicked dancer”. Would they have spoken like that back then?
HERCULES: THE LEGENDARY JOURNEYS had a few. In one episode, Hercules mentioned a “tab”. And he referred to the gods as “bums” in one episode. :-)
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Post by berkley on Aug 3, 2020 11:55:01 GMT -5
I can be distracted by such things, but not in the sense they’d detract from my enjoyment. In an episode of BONANZA that I watched recently, Joe (Michael Landon) told a woman she was a “wicked dancer”. Would they have spoken like that back then? HERCULES: THE LEGENDARY JOURNEYS had a few. In one episode, Hercules mentioned a “tab”. And he referred to the gods as “bums” in one episode. :-) The Hercules and Xena tv shows were I think deliberately written that way - not that that made the anachronistic slang and general attitude of the characters any less annoying to me. I imagine the show-runners would havedefended it as an effort to appeal to contemporary audiences, or to make stories set in ancient or mythic times relevant to today's viewers, or something along those lines.
I think it's a misguided notion myself: it made Hercules more or less unwatchable to me and Xena was saved only by Lucy Lawless's performance as the title character, which shone through in spite of the writing. But however you feel about it, I'm pretty sure it was a conscious choice in both cases.
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