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Post by the4thpip on May 5, 2014 6:29:39 GMT -5
Amongst comic fans,for every generation there is an artist who is the whipping boy for derision.Currently it looks to be either Liefeld or Land Back in the late 60s and 70s it was unquestionably Don Heck.You can agree or disagree whether he deserved it and I know some of you are fond of his art but I'm telling you he was that generation's Liefeld Who do you recall as the 80s or 90s go-to guy for bad art as far as the majority of fan sentiment? In my recollection, Heck remained a primary object of fan scorn well into the 1980s. And of course, Harlan Ellison, in his Comics Journal interview, cited Heck as the worst artist in comics; that was published in 1980. And Harlan later said he didn't mean it. He was trying to come up with a name of a "hack" and the interviewer offered Don Heck, and they both laughed and he said, "Sure, Don Heck." Maybe because of the name? He later apologized to Don, IIRC. |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2014 6:32:18 GMT -5
My recollection (quite possibly wrong)* is that Groth fed Heck's name to Ellison, who ran with it. But yeah, that was reflective of fan sentiment of the time -- "Heck" was the default for "horrible comics artist," which is a shame.
Everybody knows it should've been "Robbins" instead.
(I kid!)
(Mostly.)
*I see that 4th Pip's impression matches mine.
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Post by Nowhere Man on May 5, 2014 6:32:53 GMT -5
This is from an interesting interview of Barry Windsor Smith TCJ did in 1996 which has come to sum up my feelings of Liefeld and Lee perfectly: BWS Interview |
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Post by Fan of Bronze on May 5, 2014 6:45:09 GMT -5
Now that 4thpip and Dan B. remind me that it was Groth, not Ellison, that first named Heck, I find that that sounds correct. Still, it did seem to be the name that Ellison was reaching for, and both of them got some mileage out of the "Heck is the worst" conceit.
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Post by the4thpip on May 5, 2014 6:47:41 GMT -5
This is from an interesting interview of Barry Windsor Smith TCJ did in 1996 which has come to sum up my feelings of Liefeld and Lee perfectly: BWS InterviewOy, that is not fair to bacon! BWS needs to apologize to bacon! |
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Post by Nowhere Man on May 5, 2014 6:48:54 GMT -5
I've read that Ellision interview, and I believe he was actually thinking of Sal Buscema, which I equally disagree with. We did get to see the birth of his "Bug@#!" term that he went on to trademark I believe.
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Post by Jesse on May 5, 2014 7:01:08 GMT -5
It is fun to poke fun at Liefeld's work (omg Jez, that pic is hilarious lol), but I will say that the guy inspired hundreds of copycat artists throughout the 90's. Not saying those comics were successful, but the fact that he inspired people to pick up a pencil and give it a shot was pretty impressive. Can you name anyone still working in the industry that sites Liefeld as an influence? I think it could be argued that some of that was editorial mandate. Asking artists to emulate that style because it was selling like crazy. |
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Post by Nowhere Man on May 5, 2014 8:01:11 GMT -5
Even Herb Trimpe started drawing like Liefeld for a time.
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Post by Icctrombone on May 5, 2014 8:27:30 GMT -5
Even Herb Trimpe started drawing like Liefeld for a time. An earlier poster said he did it by his own choice. |
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Post by Ish Kabbible on May 5, 2014 8:31:37 GMT -5
That Neal Adams influence timeline posted awhile back? My two cents: Preceding Neal,he always cited Stan Drake as his major influence and thats very easy to see. And Stan Drake looks to be from the Alex Raymond school of newspaper strips  Following Neal,the one I immediately noticed back then was Jim Aparo.Especially when he took over Brave and Bold from Neal. |
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Post by Ozymandias on May 5, 2014 8:34:35 GMT -5
That Neal Adams influence timeline posted awhile back? My two cents: Preceding Neal,he always cited Stan Drake as his major influence and thats very easy to see. And Stan Drake looks to be from the Alex Raymond school of newspaper strips Following Neal,the one I immediately noticed back then was Jim Aparo.Especially when he took over Brave and Bold from Neal. If we follow the trail, I'm positive we'll sooner or later reach cave painting.  |
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Post by DubipR on May 5, 2014 8:45:40 GMT -5
I would love to see rude do some Marvel work. I take you mean more current Marvel work. His 2 issues of X-Men: Children of the Atom and Hulk:Superman are nothing short of brilliant. Curious, who would you guys say is the best least intolerable character Liefeld ever created? Cable, Deadpool or someone else entirely? Although over-saturated in the Marvel Universe, I'll probably go with Deadpool. Definitely Supreme. Cable got interesting when Joe Casey and Joe Ladronn took over and went all crazy Kirby with it. He let Alan Moore write Supreme. And that's all I got.  Correct, sir. Despite of the some of filler artists, the art was solid to hold with Moore's writing. Speaking of Karl Kesel....I want more Section Zero..... -M I want more Kesel written books. He was one of the best writers DC had in the 90s. His 2 runs on Superboy with Tom Grummett are some of my favorite reads. And someone mentioned who says Liefeld was an influence in their work? My guess...Ian Churchill.  I like Ian's work. He lightened up on the Liefeld-esque look. Especially when he does his own work, like Marineman.  |
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Post by Ish Kabbible on May 5, 2014 8:47:38 GMT -5
That Neal Adams influence timeline posted awhile back? My two cents: Preceding Neal,he always cited Stan Drake as his major influence and thats very easy to see. And Stan Drake looks to be from the Alex Raymond school of newspaper strips Following Neal,the one I immediately noticed back then was Jim Aparo.Especially when he took over Brave and Bold from Neal. If we follow the trail, I'm positive we'll sooner or later reach cave painting. Thats the truth. But if you keep it within the last century, the Big 3 artists in newspaper strips were the influence of most who came later in the 40s,50s and 60s. That would be Hal Foster,Milt Caniff and Alex Raymond. Underground artists started to break that trend with surreal influences and finally international influences started creeping in. I think manga influences came around late 80s I suppose |
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Post by Ozymandias on May 5, 2014 8:54:55 GMT -5
Thats the truth. But if you keep it within the last century, the Big 3 artists in newspaper strips were the influence of most who came later in the 40s,50s and 60s. That would be Hal Foster,Milt Caniff and Alex Raymond. Underground artists started to break that trend with surreal influences and finally international influences started creeping in. I think manga influences came around late 80s I suppose You forget Winsor McCay, the biggest talent of the 20th century. His influence is clear in a lot of artists, from Adam Hughes to Moebius. |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2014 9:00:37 GMT -5
I would love to see rude do some Marvel work. I take you mean more current Marvel work. His 2 issues of X-Men: Children of the Atom and Hulk:Superman are nothing short of brilliant. See also: Captain America: What Price Glory? |
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