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Post by Icctrombone on May 9, 2014 8:06:14 GMT -5
I think I'm going to have to post some Don Heck Avengers scans . I thought he was good at drawing superheroes.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2014 10:24:35 GMT -5
DC does occasionally have sme out there stylings on a monthly in continuity book-Kelly Jones on Batman for instance. Not often, b ut it had happened.
-M
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Post by impulse on May 9, 2014 10:28:31 GMT -5
One good holdover at Marvel from the early 00s before Joey Q got too out of control is they started taking a LOT more risks. I've seen plenty of books from Marvel with non-standard artistic styles over the last 10 years. Not to say I've been crazy about all of them, and they have clamped down a bit more lately, but they seem far more diverse than they were in, say, the 80s-90s. They've sadly since chased off a lot of that talent.
I still find it nearly unbelievable they let Frank Quitely draw the X-Men at all.
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Post by fanboystranger on May 9, 2014 11:03:15 GMT -5
So will I, but Marvel and DC won't. They never allow anyone with that kind of true stylization to work in continuity. DKR was not in continuity, but Daredevil was. Look at the difference. They don't let people with art like Frank Miller (or Sam Keith, or a handful of others) do in continuity work. They let them do the odd mini, and they let them do covers, but they need all that interior art to look a certain way. Daredevil was five years prior to DKR. Miller said that in his early days he was trying hard to conform to the look of the times, and after Daredevil he accepted he couldn't draw like that so he went for his own thing. Theres a really great lesson to be learned there (the number of people who say Miller's art was never as good after leaving Daredevil depresses me). In today's comics there is a lot more diversity in artwork, even at the Big Two. DC is more conservative than Marvel and sticks closer to the David Finch model, and neither company will choose a less-than-realistic artist for their big events, but there is a fair bit of variety in both companies. In particular Marvel has a crop of books with a more old school look, with flat colors and heavy black inking. With Miller, it was really a case of getting his hands on some Hugo Pratt and manga editions. You can see the stylistic leap he made once he discovered Corto Maltese and Lone Wolf and Cub. (Similarly, Simonson discovering Sergio Toppi's work.)
Marvel definitely has its share of stylists working for them at the moment. Bachalo, as mentioned, but also Aja, Shavley, Kev Walker, Javier Pulido. Even Samnee to a certain extent, although I'd say he's more in tune with classic comics. The stylists at DC tend to be on Vertigo books-- Buckingham, Wiliams III, Sean Murphy.
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Post by the4thpip on May 9, 2014 13:56:48 GMT -5
I think I'm going to have to post some Don Heck Avengers scans . I thought he was good at drawing superheroes. His Wanda cast some beautifully elegant poses when she was casting hexes. (Though this is an impostor, IIRC)
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Post by MDG on May 9, 2014 14:08:45 GMT -5
With Miller, it was really a case of getting his hands on some Hugo Pratt and manga editions. You can see the stylistic leap he made once he discovered Corto Maltese and Lone Wolf and Cub. (Similarly, Simonson discovering Sergio Toppi's work.)
Or Giffen when he found Jose Munoz' work?
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Post by fanboystranger on May 9, 2014 20:49:21 GMT -5
With Miller, it was really a case of getting his hands on some Hugo Pratt and manga editions. You can see the stylistic leap he made once he discovered Corto Maltese and Lone Wolf and Cub. (Similarly, Simonson discovering Sergio Toppi's work.)
Or Giffen when he found Jose Munoz' work? Haha. Yeah, I guess so. I don't think either Frank or Walt absorbed the styles of their inspirations quite as thoroughly as Keith did. Because if we take Keith at his word, he was actually subconciously swiping complete panels from Munoz for a few years until someone pointed it out to him. (I'm not sure we can take Keith at his word.)
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on May 9, 2014 21:26:21 GMT -5
I'll take Miller's artistic license over MacFarlane's, any day of the week. Miller's art is intolerable to my eyes. McFarlane isn't a favorite but given the choice between the two ...
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Post by Phil Maurice on May 9, 2014 22:06:24 GMT -5
Miller's art is intolerable to my eyes... Well, as they say, "If thine eye offend thee. . ."
But before plucking out your own eyes, you might consider showing Miller's work to other parts of your body, just to get a second opinion. Try DD #168 on your thighs, for example. Or PPTSS #27 on your glutes.
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Post by Icctrombone on May 10, 2014 5:07:52 GMT -5
No doubt that miller changed his style but it feels like the older way took more time to do. His Daredevil stuff was nice.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2014 7:32:06 GMT -5
Never was a big fan of early 90's Image. I bought the first arc of Wildcats/Cyberforce/Savage Dragon/Spawn/Youngblood. Didn't really like them.
I did buy the Alan Moore issues of Supreme & Youngblood which were great.
I was a big fan of early 90's Valiant.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on May 10, 2014 7:37:47 GMT -5
I'm thinking either DKR or an issue of DD was the first I saw of his work. I didn't read DKR when it came out but sometime in the mid to late 90s as I was buying a lot of Batman, first getting into comics. I think the DD issue was bought in attempt to get Starlin's DD issues. I never like DKR art but at that time being new in comics I thought the story was great. I feel the same about Sin City. I don't think his people look any less "monsterous" than McFarlane. I liked his Hulk but his Bruce was a character better for an actually funny book than superhero. Millers are too extreme too and they all look like hardened and ugly. Even his gals. Of which McFarlane is no good at either. It's the lesser of two evils and really hope that never becomes a real life choice.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2014 13:58:04 GMT -5
I think Miller makes everyone look ugly on purpose though. I actually like his art. Even in DKR (although I prefer it in black and white) and Holy Terror.
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Post by Hoosier X on May 10, 2014 15:17:19 GMT -5
I think Miller makes everyone look ugly on purpose though. I actually like his art. Even in DKR (although I prefer it in black and white) and Holy Terror. I flipped through Holy Terror at Barnes and Noble and I carefully put it down and backed away slowly, never taking my eyes off it until I was out of the store.
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Post by crazyoldhermit on May 10, 2014 15:20:26 GMT -5
I'm thinking either DKR or an issue of DD was the first I saw of his work. I didn't read DKR when it came out but sometime in the mid to late 90s as I was buying a lot of Batman, first getting into comics. I think the DD issue was bought in attempt to get Starlin's DD issues. I never like DKR art but at that time being new in comics I thought the story was great. I feel the same about Sin City. I don't think his people look any less "monsterous" than McFarlane. I liked his Hulk but his Bruce was a character better for an actually funny book than superhero. Millers are too extreme too and they all look like hardened and ugly. Even his gals. Of which McFarlane is no good at either. It's the lesser of two evils and really hope that never becomes a real life choice. The thing with Miller vs McFarlane is that Miller knows how to draw and McFarlane doesn't. Both are very stylized but if you don't know how to draw then you can't stylize as effectively. Knowing how to draw something is a matter of understanding it. When McFarlane draws figures he makes up a lot of the anatomy. He wants to draw a hyper muscular look but he doesn't understand the anatomy so he has to fake it and it detracts from the work. Whereas Miller's intense chiaroscuro work in Sin City reveals his draftsmanship, as doing that heavy lighting is impossible if you don't understand the forms. As far as aesthetic goes, Miller has had this to say: It can be ugly at times but its power is never diminished. One of the most interesting things about Miller's work is the inking. There are three maker inkers in his career: Klaus Janson, inker on Daredevil and Dark Knight, Joe Rubinstein, inker on Wolverine and himself. Janson used a very energetic and almost chaotic line, while Rubinstein went for a much more conventional approach. The weirdest thing is that Miller inks himself with a very dead line with little line variance. I wonder how Daredevil, Wolverine and Dark Knight would have looked if he had inked himself with that dead line, as his self-inked work is usually the stuff that is most often referred to as ugly.
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