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Post by Roquefort Raider on Oct 14, 2020 13:47:21 GMT -5
But yeah, once a "hero" backhands his wife, there is no convincing redemption to be found. I haven't read beyond #213 yet, but I have absolutely zero problem with the fact that fans have never let this moment go. What gets to me is that Hank's slap was nothing compared to Peter Parker's. Pete's superhumanly strong, and MJ was pregnant to boot!!! And yet, nobody blames him anymore. I suppose that since the Spider-clone saga is one of those storylines that we'd rather forget (kind of like the Crossing), we can safely pretend this never happened... while Hank's trial is forevermore an important part of the character's history. |
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Crimebuster
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Post by Crimebuster on Oct 14, 2020 14:24:10 GMT -5
There's a possibility the last episode might be delayed slightly, just having a couple busy days that may prevent me from finishing the editing. But hopefully I'll be able to get it done for tomorrow.
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Crimebuster
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Post by Crimebuster on Dec 15, 2020 10:25:37 GMT -5
The video version of this is now available if you want to watch Icctrombone and I discuss this instead of just listen to it:
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Post by badwolf on Jan 8, 2021 18:07:21 GMT -5
Didn't Hank go nuts as Yellowjacket before? I've never read the issue but there's a famous cover with him standing triumphantly over Goliath and the other Avengers. And in Busiek's run I'm pretty sure it's stated that that identity has always been a problem for him, a reflection of his mental illness (although I've certainly read Yellowjacket comics where he was perfectly stable.)
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Crimebuster
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Post by Crimebuster on Jan 8, 2021 18:28:15 GMT -5
Didn't Hank go nuts as Yellowjacket before? I've never read the issue but there's a famous cover with him standing triumphantly over Goliath and the other Avengers. And in Busiek's run I'm pretty sure it's stated that that identity has always been a problem for him, a reflection of his mental illness (although I've certainly read Yellowjacket comics where he was perfectly stable.) Yes, in Avengers #227, Hank is evaluated by a psychiatrist whose diagnosis is that Hank has had at least four distinct mental breakdowns that we know of. The first took place before he became a superhero. I'm not sure if this was established in TTA #44, but he had a mental breakdown when his first wife Maria was murdered. The second was in the issue you mentioned, Avengers #59. In fact, Yellowjacket is a literal expression of Hank's mental health issues. As Goliath, he inhaled some weird gas that caused him to have a scizophrenic break and develop a split personality. His new, aggressive personality created the Yellowjacket persona and had no awareness that he was Hank Pym at all - in fact, in his first appearance, he claims to have murdered Hank Pym and we don't discover the truth until #60, after Jan has used this mental breakdown as leverage to marry him while he is in his Yellowjacket personality. Yes, this is as bad as it sounds. There was a later retcon that trid to make this better by suggesting that all the Avengers knew the whole time it was Hank and went along with everything because they were afraid that snapping the spell would cause further mental damage, like waking a sleepwalker; but either way, yeah. Very bad. The third mental health breakdown was in Avengers #161. This time, his breakdown left him with selective amnesia, as he could no longer recall anything that happened after the end of Avengers #1. In this story he then reverted to his Ant-Man identity, and was then manipulated by Ultron into fighting the Avengers under the guise of trying to save Jan. The breakdown in #213 is his fourth breakdown. I think it could be argued that he had at least a couple more breakdowns after this as well, but my knowledge of post 2003 Avengers is hazy. But I think you could say he had a fifth breakdown in West Coast Avengers when he had to be talked out of suicide by Firebird. |
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Post by badwolf on Jan 8, 2021 19:38:08 GMT -5
Ah, thanks for all that. So really this period is just following on from earlier continuity.
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