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Post by codystarbuck on Apr 27, 2022 14:20:03 GMT -5
Marvel Team-Up #77 Spidey & Ms Marvel and Dr Strange....Creative Team: Chris Claremont-writer, Howard Chaykin-breakdowns, Jeff Aclin-pencils, Juan Ortiz-inks, Rick Parker (uncredited Pg 1) & Joe Rosen-letters, Mario Sen-colors, Al Milgrom-editor Al Milgrom starting his stint as editor. Synopsis: Clea is playing damsel-in-distress in another dimension, thanks to the Silver Dagger. Dr Strange and Marie Laveau are astral planing, and a disguised Spidey and Ms Marvel have to deal with Silver Dagger's magic ninjas....  They have to protect Doc's empty body, while the ninjas keep coming. Marie says Doc is a liability and blasts him and we end up with Silver Dagger back in the Marvel plane and Spidey and Ms Marvel in crackle-magic bondage.   Doc starts seeing astral caterpillars, from Lewis Carroll stories and heads off to the White Queen's castle to rescue Clea. he finds her magic-tied to the stake, with spells surrounding him and he can't get through. Then, she is transformed into Dark Clea. She attacks him. Meanwhile, Spidey snags old portraits to distract SD, then snares his ankles and dumps him face first on the floor, which causes the crackle-bonds to disappear and MM delivers an uppercut to SD, then Spidey lands one that knocks him through the roof, cause Ms Marvel isn't strong enough to do that, despite demonstrating previously that she is. SD isn't phased much and keeps fighting. They double-team him, while Doc fights Clea, who conjures up some Mindless Ones, to remind us of better Dr Strange stories. Spidey somehow gets his mind into the astral plane, affecting Clea and Doc is able to beat her. Ms Marvel is slugging it out with Silver Dagger, who is going to "humble her" but Marie sticks his dagger in his back and he goes down, before Claremont can get all torture-y on yet another woman.  Doc magics them to Greenwich Village and restores Clea's soul, banishes Silver Dagger back to his other-dimensional prison, and then everyone buggers off so Doc and Clea can make sweet love, down by the fire, after sending Wong to the movies. Thoughts: Meh. Next.... Okay; lot of the usual Claremont stuff and mediocre Dr Strange riffs. Claremont isn't either Steve (Ditko or Englehart) and the mystical stuff is pretty forgettable. Silver Dagger's power is undefined and Marie Laveau is a traitor, until she isn't, in the world's most telegraphed twist. The art is nothing to write home about, either. It's competent, but lacks any real flair and uses a lot of Marvel visual cliches. I just find myself not really caring too much. The parallel fight scenes just remind me of modern pro wrestling: I'll do my stuff, then you do your stuff, then we go to the finish. Nothing really resonates because there is no in-story reason for it to occur. Claremont is one of the worst offenders, in my book, of undefined magic, in Marvel stories (though he has a lot of company there, going back to Stan). Magic has to have some kind of rules to build drama around it. It's part of why magical characters have had pretty erratic success, in comics. Ditko's stories had a certain logic to them (plus Doc is still learning). Englehart was a student of the better pulp writers of the supernatural and applied similar ideas. Others varied between good to awful, sometimes within their own runs. This is largely why I never really warmed to supernatural stories, as a genre, let alone in comics. Wonder Man is next issue; so, let's hope Claremont is more inspired. Right now, I am just trying to hang on until Black Widow comes on the scene for a nice run of issues.
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Post by codystarbuck on Apr 27, 2022 16:05:59 GMT -5
Marvel Two-in-One #77 Thing & Man-Thing Sounds like a Dr Suess story! Creative Team: Tom DeFalco-writer (oh boy!), Ron Wilson-pencils, Chic Stone-inks, Michael Higgins-letters, George Roussos-colors, Jim Salicrup-editor I kid, I kid; DeFalco has had some great stuff, like......... um........ ...let me get back to you. Synopsis: Ben is doing one of his usual workouts, destroying some of Reed's equipment which was supposed to test his limits. This old standby is interrupted by Nick Fury, who has come to recruit former test pilot Benjamin J Grimm to fly the X-24, a hypersonic experimental plane, predicted to fly at Mach 6 or better. DeFalco must have been reading Tom Wolfe....  Well, Ben isn't about to be upstaged by Chuck Yeager (or even Sam Shepard) and he accepts, because it is a chance to prove himself as a pilot, not a strong "monster," in his own words, to Alicia (in a pretty sappy scene, I must say). ben is put through a series of tests (couldn't they save tax payer money and just get the data that has already been collected by Reed, over the years?) and then gets suited up in a pressure suit (hasn't he been in space, without one?) and climbs into the aircraft, which Ron Wilson draws as a rocket, rather than an aircraft, with control surfaces (seriously; no ailerons, no flaps, no elevators and no discernable rudder; just rocket fins).  Meanwhile, in the Everglades, some alligator poachers run into Man-Thing, who gives them Albert's regards.  Ben puts the aircraft through its paces and has her up to mach 5.6, when an engine cuts out and the remaining engine sends the ship into a corckscrew. Ben is able to counter the spin, but has lost too much altitude and does a belly landing in the Everglades. He smashes his way out of the craft; but, he is in bad shape. Man-Thing is drawn to him and leaves the poachers to Clint Howard, Dennis Weaver and the bear (I doubt anyone under the age of 50 gets that reference). Ben's arm may be broken. He peels off his helmet; but, since this is a Code-approved story, he doesn't peel off a glove, along with half the flesh on his arm, like Yeager (causing a bystander who encountered him to empty his stomach, on the ground). Ben stumbles around in the swamp, in a daze, with Man-Thing following him, like a puppy. He starts thinking back to an encounter with Fury, during the war, when Ben ended up flying the Howlers n a mission, to destroy a secret mountain base....  The poachers think it is an alien invasion and fire at Ben, but Man-Thing smacks them around. Meanwhile, Reed, Sue, Johnny and Nick Fury have landed and search for Ben. He continues to be lost in WW2 and the mission, then starts to fall and can't get up. He crawls and collapses and knows fear. man-Thing sense the fear and is hurt by the emotion and sets out to destroy it. His touch burns Ben, who reacts instinctively and fights. The fear subsides and man-Thing holds back, as Ben gets to his feet and continues on...  Ben stumbles on and is spotted, from the air, by Johnny. They get him to a hospital, where he recovers, while talking of something watching over him, in the swamp. Elsewhere, Man-Thing shambles on and Theodore Sturgeon grumbles. Thoughts: Well, DeFalco, like many a neophyte Marvel writer, pulls out all of the old Stan cliches, from the scenes with Reed, in the Baxter Building, to the Howler banter and so on; but, he actually does a pretty good job of conveying Ben's spirit, which has sustained him and moved him from bitter, angry "monster," to the Ever-Lovin' Blue-Eyed Idol of Millions. Ben won't quit, though he comes close, about to admit defeat, when Man-Thing touches him and causes pain, which cuts through the despair. ben finds a reason to fight, which gets him back on his feet and to safety. I'm not joking when I say DeFalco must have read Tom Wolfe because he A) has Fury ask Ben if he still has the Right Stuff; and, B) the rocket crash is pretty much taken, with minor changes, from the account of Chuck Yeager punching out of an NF-104, after it went into an uncontrollable flat spin. The election seat slammed into his visor and broke it and the hot motor ignited his emergency oxygen supply, burning his face and body. Yeager parachuted safely and landed near a road, where a motorist stopped. Yeager peeled off his glove and most of his skin and the man promptly fell on the ground, vomiting. The movie embellishes the reason for the flight (making it seem like he did it on a whim, rather than the actual scheduled test flight that it was, and shows the fire and burn scars, but not the incident with the motorist. The swipe fits, as Ben was a test pilot and The Right Stuff gets into the mentality of the test pilot fraternity, which was the foundation of the astronaut program, as they were drawn from those ranks (initially). The part about Ben and Fury meeting is a bit of a stretch, not because of age (as Ben and Reed had been shown to be in WW2, previously and Fury turned up in an early FF story); but because of locale. Ben is supposed to be a Marine fighter pilot and their primary theater of operations was the Pacific, while the Howlers operated in Europe. Now, there were stories with the Howlers in the Pacific (which was ridiculous; but so was the series, from a reality standpoint); but, this details a mission in Europe. There is a bit of a precedent for this to occur. The Marines sent many of their aviators to train with the RAF and learn the tactics they used against the Luftwaffe, in the Battle of Britain and engagements in North Africa and France. So, as a top marine fighter pilot, Ben could be there as part of that program. However, he ends up flying a B-26 Marauder bomber to fly the Howler's in to rescue a French resistance leader, named LeBlanc (Andre?). Ben was a fighter pilot, not a bomber pilot. DeFalco even has Ben tell Fury that he is a fighter jock, not a bomber pilot. So, he at least tries to address that point. Of course, the whole episode is filtered through Ben's delirium; so, not everything is meant to be taken at face value. We see what looks like tropical plants, at this mountain rendezvous, but, they are juxtaposed with ben stumbling through the Everglades, so it is probably reality entering the fantasy vision. So, all thing considered, DeFalco has covered his bases pretty well. This succeeds far better as a story than the Claremont MTU stories above (the Dr Strange & Ms Marvel issues), as it stands on its own, yet makes good use of the guest star. ben is still the central focus; but, Man-Thing has a real reason to be there. DeFalco has handled the story logistics well enough and in a plausible manner to bring the two together and make use of Man-Thing's attributes, in service to the story, for something other than a generic fight. It's not a classic story; but, it is a good, solid piece of work and some nice character pieces. We can chalk this up as one of DeFalco's "great stuff." Told you, I'd get back to you, with an answer!
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Post by codystarbuck on May 19, 2022 22:38:09 GMT -5
Marvel Team-Up #78 Spidey & Wonder Man! They face The Griffin; but, sadly, not this one....  (Seriously; really good mini-series, from Dan Vado and Norman Felchle!) Creative Team: Bill Kunkel-writer, Don Perlin-pencils, Frank Giacoia-inks, Irv Watanabe-letters, Marie Severin-colors (possibly; credited as Mari S and GCD has a question mark by Marie's name), Al Milgrom-editor Kunkel also wrote issue #72 Synopsis: Spidey is slingin' along and runs into an Alfred Hitchcock picture, as he is attacked by a group of gulls, who then fly off. His Spidey sense didn't warn him, yet a group like that can be picked up on radar. Funny, that. At the Avengers Mansion, Wonder Man is reading some Raymond Chandler (with his outfit, I would have figured Doc Savage), when he hears a crash from elsewhere in the mansion. He goes to investigate and finds the Griffin, who appears to have defeated Jerry Lawler for the Southern Heavyweight title....  He's looking for the Avengers and Wonder Man responds with "Come and have a go, if you think you're hard enough!" and it's on like Ron. Wondy finds out that Griffin isn't wearing a mask and he is kicking his butt. Then Spidey shows up to interfere, but doesn't do any better. Griffin breaks up the fight because "The changes are coming more quickly." I didn't know griffins went into menopause! He flies of and the gulls attack Spidey again, then follow Griffin. Spidey then relates the Griffin's backstory, which doesn't involve singing or interviewing Steve Lawrence and Eydie Gorme.  Oooooooooooh!!!!! Spidey runs off and tells Wondy to call the Avengers and he starts to, then tells Spidey to stick it in his web and goes after Griffin. Spidey finds Griffin over what I think is supposed to be Yankee Stadium and gets smacked around. then Wonder Man shows up in an "astro fighter" and zaps Griffin. It just makes him mad and he turns more bestial. It continues, until he is completely animal and is afraid of fire (Fire bad!...gerrrrrr) he drops the astro fighter on himself and smoosh. Thoughts: Kind of middling. Wonder Man is portrayed as a dimwit, unsure of himself and making mistakes at every turn. Spidey's senses seem non-existent, since he keeps getting ambushed. Really a bad case of having characters act like morons to suit the plot. Don Perlin's art is nothing to write home about; but, it is serviceable. This is never going to rank on anyone's Top 10 list.
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Post by codystarbuck on May 19, 2022 23:44:16 GMT -5
Marvel Two-in-One #78 Thing & Wonder Man! What a coinky-dink! Of course, these two stories were published two years apart. Creative Team: Tom DeFalco-plot, David Michelinie-script, Ron Wilson-pencils, Chic Stone-inks, Joe Rosen-letetrs, George Rousos-colors, Jim Salicrup-editor Synopsis: Ben is sitting with the family, looking at TV Guide, as a new show debuts, Monster Man, starring Simon Williams. it is, essentially, a rip-off of Ben, but with a kid sidekick, Kid Monstro.  Ben, as you would expect, isn't flattered and he storms off, grabs his skycycle and heads over to Queens, to the studio, where the tv show is shot. he is especially miffed that Simon Williams, aka Wonder Man is involved, as he considered him a friend (and poker buddy). At the studio, a pair of camera men talk about the special camera that producer Ted Silverberg uses for all of his shows. He tells them to leave it alone, as it is a Kirby 600....  Wonder Man is busy working out, when there is a commotion, as Silverberg is told he has a visitor, whether he likes it or not...  Ben delivers a cease & desist threat, then says he will have his lawyers get in touch, if the show continues and they won't be so nice. He then tosses the crumpled camera to Wonder Man and storms off. Wondy is confused and follows. Silverberg slinks off, afraid that it will come out that someone else was behind his hits. he goes to see that someone, one Mr Moses. Moses says he will take care of Ben & the FF and Silverberg slinks off. Cut to the Avengers Mansion, where Wonder Man is taking his frustration out on a Kirby EverSmash Punching Bag.  Ben goes to see Matt Murdock, Attorney With Billy Club, who tells him he doesn't have a case. The show has enough unique features that he can't claim it is derived from him and he storms off. Some kids outside think he is Monster Man and ask for his autograph, which doesn't help matters. Meanwhile, Simon Williams proves to be the lone actor in Hollywood with integrity, as he quits the show, rather than have Ben mad at him. Um, that would probably be breach of contract, because there is no way Wonder man has that good of an agent. He walks off and Silverberg whines to Moses, who transforms into Xemnu the Titan (oy), who secretly watches WM, in the make-up chair. He then puts the whammy on Wonder Man. Ben is at home with Alicia, who is trying to cheer him up; but, Franklin is in the room; so, you know...... Franklin is glued to the TV and Ben starts ranting, until he comes over funny and starts finding the show fascinating. the feeling passes, when they go to commercial. Ben realizes that something funny is going on and heads down to the studio, to check it out. Ben arrives and knocks on and through the studio door, then steps over the wreckage. He finds the special camera and notices a weird doohickey where the film passes over, before hitting the take-up reel. Then, Wonder Man shows up and it is Clobberin' Time, in reverse. They knock each other around and Xemnu turns up. Ben rips up the floor, knocking Wondy off balance. he is then attacked by gunslinging vegetables....  .......then Wonder Man. They fight across soundstages, until Ben throws WM into the special camera, smashing it and releasing WM from Xemnu's hold. Xemnu takes off in his escape vehicle and that's the end of the Monster Man Show. However, a few months later, Ted Silverberg has unveiled the Xemnu The Titan show and Ben has a migraine. Thoughts: Fun little story, with a nice dose of humor and a bit of satire of network tv, though no one was filming an adventure show in New York, in the 70s. Maybe exteriors; but, everything was shot in LA (except the network news and SNL). Ron forgot Xemnu's metal yamaka and just draws him with a pointy head. DeFalco is doing pretty well, so far. Nice mix of adventure and comedy. Ron Wilson is adept at bot; so, there is much fun to be had.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 4, 2022 17:29:15 GMT -5
Marvel Team-Up #79 Spidey & Red Sonja? Creative Team: Chris Claremont-writer/co-plot, John Byrne-pencils/co-plot, Terry Austin-inks, Tom Orzechowski-letters, Glynnis Wein-colors, Al Milgrom-editor, Roy Thomas-consulting editor, Jim Shooter-can't say "boo" to Roy. Red Sonja was one of Roy's books, so he had to be consulted for the use of the character. He was also more steeped in RE Howard and the like than Claremont. Byrne & Austin? Hooyeah! Synopsis: Spidey is web slingin' past the Metropolitan Museum of Art, where a guard suddenly falls under the spell of some necklace and smashes the display case to take it out....  Peter Parker is late for the Christmas party, at the Daily Bugle (where a visiting mild mannered reporter is seen). There are jokes about J Jonah's stingy Christmas bonus and Mary Jane shows up to give Peter a Christmas tonsillectomy, after producing some mistletoe. Robby Robertson Grinches Pete's joy and assigns him and a reporter to cover a disturbance at the Museum. They take the staff car and Pete finds out that MJ has stowed aboard. They arrive to see a gigantic rise of crimson flame. Petey ducks MJ and Spidey hits the scene, but gets grabbed by some Lovecraftian tentacled monster. MJ thinks Petey has gone inside and sneaks past police lines to follow. She sees Spidey being slimed and yucked and then sees a sword, on display, glowing. She hears a voice in her head, calling on her to touch the sword and the next thing you know, she is transformed into Wendy Pini.....  Remember that when you have her sign your copy of Elfquest!  Red comes in swinging and slashes beasties, the Kulan Gath, a sorcerer from her own series, turns up to tell her that her butt looks big in a chain mail loincloth. Spidey keeps her from getting zapped by an amulet, but she gets miffed about his 8 hands on her body. She whacks him on the head with her sword and he drops her and hits the floor. They booth wake up, chained to X-Crosses, hanging from the ceiling, so they must be in one of THOSE clubs, instead of the Museum.  Kulan monologues about raising ancient gods and Stygian Temples and Red barks out about safe, sane and consensual. It gets all oozy and tentacled (someone is sublimating, here) and Spidey breaks out of his bonds first, sincce Claremont is writing this and the female character has to suffer more indignities. Spidey frees Red, because she is incapable of doing it herself, despite past adventures, then they hack their way through monsters, avoid spells and Spidey smacks Kulan around, before putting him on the canvas. Red yells at him to stop admiring his handiwork and Spidey produces the amulet that Kulan sought....  Red transforms back into MJ and she faints in Spidey's arms He hopes that she kept the outfit for.....later. He takes her home, then tosses the amulet into the ocean, because that is more responsible than, oh, I don't know, dropping it in a volcano, shooting it into space, taking it out to deep water (he chucks it off the Staten Island Ferry). Thoughts: Why was Red Sonja in this? Oh, yeah, so she could be a damsel-in-distress and Byrne could draw curvy chicks in chainmail. Visually, it is fine, if hardly anything of great note. It lets Byrne and Austin do their thing, which looks purty, especially if you like chainmail bikini chicks in bondage. (Should have been a follow up song for Killer P****). As a Red Sonja story, it's not particularly good and as sword & sorcery, it is totally cliched. The twist of MJ being possessed by Red Sonja might have been interesting, if Claremont had actually done something with it, rather than just use that as an excused to get Red into the modern MCU and still leave it ambiguous if that is the past or another dimension. The more I re-read some of Claremont's stuff, the more I raise my eyebrow at the notion that he wrote powerful and complex women. He wrote a lot of women who were powerful, but usually ended up stripped of that power and helpless before someone and a lot of women being tortured and humiliated and a lot of dominatrix-type women. Hey, Chaykin and Perez wrote and drew their fantasies, too! (Though they also seemed to write more women who acted with more agency, if you ask me). This mostly just looks like a comic version of "Sweeps Week," where tv would put on racier shows and news pieces to get ratings. I can only imagine how it would have been if Roy had written it, instead. The splash page makes a big deal about it being the 7th anniversary, to the month, of the debut of the series; but, the issue is hardly a celebration of that. Next up is Dr Strange & Clea (already?) and then Satana, which sounds like Claremont trying to tie up loose ends. Luckily, a much better storyline follows, for a few issues.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 4, 2022 17:31:43 GMT -5
ps I've read way more Cerebus than Red Sonja issues, which is why I kept waiting for someone to say something about chain mail bikinis and chafing.  |
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 4, 2022 18:11:17 GMT -5
Marvel Two-in-One #79 Thing & Blue Diamond? Blue Diamond? You mean the guy from the Liberty Legion? Yeah, he's popular........ Ron Wilson & Chic Stone trying to look very Ditko, there. Creative Team: Tom DeFalco-writer, Ron Wilson-pencils, Chic Stone-inks, Joe Rosen-letters, George Roussos-colors, Jim Salicrup-editor Synopsis: Someone has been to see the ballet.....  and has been reading Kirby, as Shanga the Star-Dancer whines about being bored, the Power Cosmic and missing her homeworld. She is drawn to Earth and goes there to dance; but, Disco is en vogue, so she will just have to settle for shaking her booty. I suggest she head over to CBGB and check out those New Wave bands, instead. She comes to Massachussetts, where an arts and crafts expo is going on, being visited by Alicia Masters and Ben Grimm. Alicia is checking out some pottery, at a booth, when the vendor gets all uncool and heavy and insults her, even after learning she is blind. Ben teaches him a lesson in manners and parks a tree trunk in front of the guy's booth, rather than someplace more uncomfortable. Ben leaves Alicia to enjoy the expo, while he goes fishing. He is noticed by an old professor of anthropology, who used to be Blue Diamond, back in the 40s.  He gave up the superhero life, lost his wife and never became a star in the world of anthropology and is jealous of Ben. Meanwhile, Star-Dancer turns up and decides to cover the town in a dome to conduct genetic experiments. Everyone panics and Alicia thinks the monster they are talking about is Ben and tries to defend him and the mob turns on her. Ben can't hear her, because he is outside the dome, fishing; but, he eventually notices the dome and tries to smash his way in, without success. Elton Morrow, aka Blue Diamond witnesses the mob dragging Alicia and decides that he must do something to stop them. Star Dancer appears before the mob and they hold a gun to Alicia's head, threatening to kill her if they are not released, unharmed. Ben keeps punching the dome and it starts cracking. Blue Diamond comes to Alicia's rescue and intercepts a bullet...  ...then collapses from a heart attack. ben smashes his way in; but, Star Dancer has Alicia wrapped in a bubble. Ben hurls stuff at Star Dancer, including a statue of Lincoln and a church, which bring her down. Blue Diamond tries to help, even with his heart problem. ben gets suckered because he won't hit a helpless woman. He fights back, but Star Dancer is proving too powerful. Blue Diamond interrupts and Ben recognizes him from his trip to the past, where he met the Liberty Legion and Blue Diamond tells him to use his diamond hard body as a weapon and Ben hurls him like a javelin. They collide, Star Dancer goes down and Alicia is released. Dancer comes to and BD offers himself to be her experimental subject. She sees the parallels to her own people and cures his heart attack and transforms him into living diamond. They fly off into space to find her homeworld and Ben and Alicia go to find some seafood, for dinner. Thoughts: Um......well.......it's okay. Nothing spectacular, nothing horrible or offensive. Just kind of dull. It's old hat, as it swiped some Silver Surfer stuff, the usual fearful mob cliche, and old hero's sacrifice. Blue Diamond comes across as rather pathetic, though he ends up heroic. He was never a great character; but, this seemed a bit insulting, though I suppose it is different to have a hero who failed at the rest of his life. It's just thrown in as background, rather than explored, which would have been more interesting. The art is no great shakes. Wilson and Stone aren't a great team, though Wilson handles Ben well. It's everyone else that looks mediocre. This kind of throws off DeFalco's batting average, for this series; but, they can't all be winners. Well, unless you are George L Carlson and this is Jingle Jangle Comics. Ghost Rider is in the next issue, then MTIO Annual #6, with a new superhero who looks like he was designed by a wrestling promoter.
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Post by chaykinstevens on Jun 4, 2022 18:33:40 GMT -5
Red comes in swinging and slashes beasties, the Kulan Gath, a sorcerer from her own series, turns up to tell her that her butt looks big in a chain mail loincloth. I don't think KG had appeared in Sonja's series. He had previously featured in the story with Elric in Conan the Barbarian #14 & 15. |
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Post by berkley on Jun 4, 2022 19:11:47 GMT -5
I never knew the Silver Dagger made any appearances outside his original storyline in the Engehart/Brunner Dr. Strange. Seems out of place in MArvel Team-Up, but then I always find tarange himself and all the characters from his series out of place in MU superhero stories.
Then again, so is Red Sonja, but I liked this issue very much - one of my favourites of the whole series. It shouldn't have worked, but it kind of did anyway, at least enough to be fun for one issue. Of course, I would have liked it better if Red Sonja had been more of the star but there you go.
I never would have recognised that as Chaykin's artwork in #77.
I haven't seen a ot of the Griffin but I often think that hat was close to being a quite good character design that effectively conveys an impression of physical strength and power. Not sure what I'd change - maybe a different colour scheme? the wings? - but it dosn't seem quite right to me, for some reason.
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Post by chaykinstevens on Jun 5, 2022 6:54:25 GMT -5
I liked the Frank Thorne-ishness of some of Byrne's drawings of Sonja.  |
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 5, 2022 10:08:42 GMT -5
I liked the Frank Thorne-ishness of some of Byrne's drawings of Sonja. See, that's the only part that works for me; the visual element. The story is just a big cliche. Maybe if I had read it, back in the day, when I had only read a handful of Conan comics and none of the original stories, or Michael Moorcock, or other sword & sorcery works, this might have worked better. Reading it today I just see, "Swiped X from here, Y from there, this from the Twilight Zone, etc, etc...." |
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Post by berkley on Jun 5, 2022 14:22:43 GMT -5
I liked the Frank Thorne-ishness of some of Byrne's drawings of Sonja.
Yeah, that was the key to making this unlikely idea work: you have to do something to make Red Sonja look different, striking, impressive in this alien, modern world of colourful, costumed superheroes, etc. Same thing if you're doing Conan other similar characters transplanted into modern times. It isn't enough to make them big, muscular people, though that's part of it - the superhero genre is already full of characters like that, so how do you make them stand out?
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Post by badwolf on Jun 6, 2022 12:46:58 GMT -5
Marvel Team-Up #79 I think this issue is a little overrated, probably due to its not being included in any reprint collections and having to be sought after separately. Or maybe just everyone loves seeing Red, which is understandable. But as I've said before, I think the whole Claremont/Byrne run on this title is a littler overrated.
I think you're being a little unfair to Chris regarding Red not being able to break free on her own. She may be a superior human female, but she doesn't have Spidey's super-strength.
Kulan Gath's necklace would eventually be fished out in the pages of UXM by Claremont and JRJR. (I forget the exact issue but it results in a 2-part story in #190-191.)
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Post by zaku on Jun 6, 2022 15:56:27 GMT -5
I think you're being a little unfair to Chris regarding Red not being able to break free on her own. She may be a superior human female, but she doesn't have Spidey's super-strength.
This. Sometime people forget that because he doesn't show off his super-strength, but he can press lift tons. No normal human could escape his grip. But for whatever reason he was ridiculously nerfed in the 70s (he had trouble defeating a regular person whose only power was to have pointy shoes) so I understand why one could think that she had a better chance against him ... |
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 6, 2022 21:16:33 GMT -5
Marvel Team-Up #79 I think this issue is a little overrated, probably due to its not being included in any reprint collections and having to be sought after separately. Or maybe just everyone loves seeing Red, which is understandable. But as I've said before, I think the whole Claremont/Byrne run on this title is a littler overrated.
I think you're being a little unfair to Chris regarding Red not being able to break free on her own. She may be a superior human female, but she doesn't have Spidey's super-strength.
Kulan Gath's necklace would eventually be fished out in the pages of UXM by Claremont and JRJR. (I forget the exact issue but it results in a 2-part story in #190-191.)
I stand by my assessment. I'm not talking about breaking free of chains; I'm talking about essentially being a "damsel-in-distress" for most of the story. After the big entrance, she slashes one tentacle and and arm, then Spidey rescues her from getting zapped by Kulan, she conks Spidey on the noggin with the pommel of her sword and they crash to the floor, unconscious, then awake hanging from the X-crosses. Spidey breaks free, frees Red, they end up surrounded by Kulan's monster horde, Spidey picks up Red and carries her away without a single sword-stroke, Spidey tackles Kulan through the door to the outside, then punches Kulan across the area. He shows Red the amulet and she transforms back to MJ. The entire content of her contribution to the story is two swings of the sword and accidentally knocking out Spider-Man. That's it. To me, using Red Sonja and not let it be Red Sonja, noted butt-kicker and charter member of the Ginger Sisterhood, and needing her to be rescued for most of the story is a pointless waste of a character. You could give the excuse that it is MJ, possessed by the spirit of Red Sonja, or a spell from the sword; but, I find that to be a cop out. Had the spirit of Conan inhabited Flash Thompson, you can be darn sure that Conan would get a few more licks in than two panels. I think there would have been a more interesting story in Spidey witnessing the possession of MJ and him try to reach her mind and release her from the spell, than what we got; or, having Red Sonja time or dimension displaced into this world and allowed to fight as in her own stories. You could have put any female Marvel hero in this role, with the exact same result, that they were little more than a victim. They might have just as well made it Millie the Model. MTU was often rather lopsided in favor of Spidey, since he was the star; but, the better stories struck more of a balance with the guest star; or, at least, gave them a more dynamic role. Even Bill Mantlo managed that. Claremont was capable of doing better. |
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