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Post by wildfire2099 on May 19, 2022 6:45:41 GMT -5
Seems like they'll go more with the Slott series (IIRC there she was a superhero lawyer who used comics as precedent) more than anything. I definitely remember at the time thinking Jen Walters was extra small and mousy looking in that series, which seems like the route they're going. I agree the CGI is awful... seems like She-Hulk is just taller, not really more muscular, which is weird. Also, Hulk's arm seems to be ok.. I sorta felt like that was going to be permanent.. I wonder if they'll explain that or ignore it? Between this is them changing Ms. Marvel to be sparkle Green Lantern, not that excited about the MCU rn. |
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Post by thwhtguardian on May 19, 2022 8:13:31 GMT -5
I feel like some people have near impossible expectations for cgi. The purpose of any effect whether it be digital or practical is to aid the imagination in convincing you that something impossible is appearing on your screen. It's not to actually present the impossible(which by it's very definition is you know, not possible), just to suggest it and convey it to the audience...which I think these effects appear to do rather well. It clearly shows a green woman with absurdly large proportions.
Could they have just painted a female body builder green and called it a day?
Sure.
But would that hypothetical female body builder have been able to convey the nuances of the performance that they required to tell the story they wanted to bring to the screen?
It may be stereotyping to say that body builders don't tend to be the greatest actors, but that's the world we live in.
It worked for the old Incredible Hulk series because there was no other technical way to pull off the change but also because the Hulk was portrayed as "other" than Banner on the show, where as here She-Hulk isn't meant to be seen as separate from who Jenn is so using a body double wouldn't work.
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Post by impulse on May 19, 2022 8:46:49 GMT -5
I'm reminded of the saying "No one hates Star Wars more than Star Wars fans."  |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on May 19, 2022 10:27:06 GMT -5
I feel like some people have near impossible expectations for cgi. The purpose of any effect whether it be digital or practical is to aid the imagination in convincing you that something impossible is appearing on your screen. It's not to actually present the impossible(which by it's very definition is you know, not possible), just to suggest it and convey it to the audience...which I think these effects appear to do rather well. It clearly shows a green woman with absurdly large proportions. I respectfully disagree. I've seen a lot of higher quality CG than this. It's not a limit of the medium; it's corner cutting. She-Hulk's face looks like something out of Shrek. There is a notable dearth of texture that causes it to look unreal.  They can absolutely clean that up by throwing more money at it. Marvel assigns a lower budget to its TV shows, and that is understandable, but don't do a series that relies heavily on the cg if you aren't going to invest in the cg. |
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Post by The Captain on May 19, 2022 11:29:57 GMT -5
They can absolutely clean that up by throwing more money at it. Marvel assigns a lower budget to its TV shows, and that is understandable, but don't do a series that relies heavily on the cg if you aren't going to invest in the cg. This is my problem with Loki’s show. It just felt...fake and artificial. There were parts of it (such as when he and Sylvie were stuck on that one planet), and it was so obviously a total greenscreen/soundset job that it took me out of the show entirely. I know they can’t ACTUALLY film on another planet, but they can try to make it look a little convincing. That’s probably why my two favorite Disney+ shows are Hawkeye and Falcon/Winter Soldier. They filmed in actual places, with solid objects for the characters to interact with, and that made the shows feel REAL. |
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Post by impulse on May 19, 2022 13:58:04 GMT -5
They often use unfinished CGI in commercials and trailers as they continue to work until the release date. It's quite possible it will look better by the time it airs.
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Post by Duragizer on May 19, 2022 14:02:11 GMT -5
Could they have just painted a female body builder green and called it a day? Sure. But would that hypothetical female body builder have been able to convey the nuances of the performance that they required to tell the story they wanted to bring to the screen? It may be stereotyping to say that body builders don't tend to be the greatest actors, but that's the world we live in. If male actors can bulk up for these types of roles, there's no reason a female actor can't do the same. I do understand we live in a world where women are expected to meet certain narrow, outmoded, and frankly stupid beauty standards, but that's all the more reason to start bucking the trend. |
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Post by impulse on May 19, 2022 15:04:13 GMT -5
Could they have just painted a female body builder green and called it a day? Sure. But would that hypothetical female body builder have been able to convey the nuances of the performance that they required to tell the story they wanted to bring to the screen? It may be stereotyping to say that body builders don't tend to be the greatest actors, but that's the world we live in. If male actors can bulk up for these types of roles, there's no reason a female actor can't do the same. I do understand we live in a world where women are expected to meet certain narrow, outmoded, and frankly stupid beauty standards, but that's all the more reason to start bucking the trend. They can certainly find an actress who will bulk up, but I don't think they could get around her not being 7 feet tall quite as easily. |
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Post by badwolf on May 19, 2022 16:42:41 GMT -5
They often use unfinished CGI in commercials and trailers as they continue to work until the release date. It's quite possible it will look better by the time it airs. True-it happened with Battle Angel Alita--ostensibly because people hated the way she looked. |
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Post by thwhtguardian on May 19, 2022 17:51:16 GMT -5
I feel like some people have near impossible expectations for cgi. The purpose of any effect whether it be digital or practical is to aid the imagination in convincing you that something impossible is appearing on your screen. It's not to actually present the impossible(which by it's very definition is you know, not possible), just to suggest it and convey it to the audience...which I think these effects appear to do rather well. It clearly shows a green woman with absurdly large proportions. I respectfully disagree. I've seen a lot of higher quality CG than this. It's not a limit of the medium; it's corner cutting. She-Hulk's face looks like something out of Shrek. There is a notable dearth of texture that causes it to look unreal. They can absolutely clean that up by throwing more money at it. Marvel assigns a lower budget to its TV shows, and that is understandable, but don't do a series that relies heavily on the cg if you aren't going to invest in the cg. I don't know, that looks like She-Hulk to me and really that's all I need. Could it be more realistic? Sure, but the fact that it isn't just shouldn't be a deal breaker, especially if the story is good and it appears to be based on what we've seen so far. Maybe it's growing up loving Doctor Who, where you intellectually know there is nothing menacing about the daleks as they look just like trash cans that are barely able to move but you believe they're a threat anyway because the other actors take them seriously. Some people can't buy in like that, I know, but I've always thought that was on them and not the medium. Could they have just painted a female body builder green and called it a day? Sure. But would that hypothetical female body builder have been able to convey the nuances of the performance that they required to tell the story they wanted to bring to the screen? It may be stereotyping to say that body builders don't tend to be the greatest actors, but that's the world we live in. If male actors can bulk up for these types of roles, there's no reason a female actor can't do the same. I do understand we live in a world where women are expected to meet certain narrow, outmoded, and frankly stupid beauty standards, but that's all the more reason to start bucking the trend. Except in this case there is supposed to be a marked difference between the two visually, you can't sell her alter ego as a small, mousy woman if you have Gina Carano as Jenn, and at the same time you can't use a bigger body double like Lou Ferrigno as the Hulk because She-Hulk still has to sound and resemble Jenn. |
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Post by Duragizer on May 19, 2022 19:35:05 GMT -5
If male actors can bulk up for these types of roles, there's no reason a female actor can't do the same. I do understand we live in a world where women are expected to meet certain narrow, outmoded, and frankly stupid beauty standards, but that's all the more reason to start bucking the trend. They can certainly find an actress who will bulk up, but I don't think they could get around her not being 7 feet tall quite as easily. If male actors can bulk up for these types of roles, there's no reason a female actor can't do the same. I do understand we live in a world where women are expected to meet certain narrow, outmoded, and frankly stupid beauty standards, but that's all the more reason to start bucking the trend. Except in this case there is supposed to be a marked difference between the two visually, you can't sell her alter ego as a small, mousy woman if you have Gina Carano as Jenn, and at the same time you can't use a bigger body double like Lou Ferrigno as the Hulk because She-Hulk still has to sound and resemble Jenn. In both circumstances, I'd use a combination of deepfakery, dubbing, and blue/greenscreen. I can't imagine the final result would be as/more expensive than 100% CGI, and it would certainly look more realistic. Admittedly, I'm biased against CGI; I loathe it immensely. |
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Post by shaxper on May 19, 2022 22:06:43 GMT -5
They often use unfinished CGI in commercials and trailers as they continue to work until the release date. It's quite possible it will look better by the time it airs. That is my hope. Where I'm confused is why they couldn't just paint her face green, put her in a wig, and then CG the rest. They certainly didn't need to CG her face, so why do it and then not do it right? Hopefully because this is a rough cut. |
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Post by Dizzy D on May 20, 2022 2:49:59 GMT -5
There is currently a big rush on various CGI studios, while a lot of them have shut down over COVID and CGI studios were always working till the last minute, so trailers often have an unfinished look.
In case of She-Hulk, I do think all of the various 'solutions' have drawbacks:
- The actress needs to do emotive acting but as She-Hulk as well as Jen, she will switch between both forms, so just having an actress bulk up for the role will bring its own problems (unless you hire a set of twins and tell one of them to hit the gym).
- Make-up brings its own problems: actors need to be in make-up for hours and there can be annoying side effect (Virginia Hey dropped out of Farscape because of allergic reactions to the bodypaint). Results can be great though (Colin Farrell's Penguin make-up in the recent Batman movie was the one thing that I really liked about that)
Generally you want to have a mixture of practical and CGI effects.
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Post by wildfire2099 on May 20, 2022 6:44:02 GMT -5
Would it be crazy, naive of me to wonder this.. couldn't they film the 'Jen' parts of the show, have her bulk up, then film the she hulk parts? It's been in production for at least 2 years, plenty of time for that to work.
I'm not super excited about the show before the effects to be honest, and the medicore effects haven't made me any more excited.
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Post by thwhtguardian on May 20, 2022 8:12:53 GMT -5
Would it be crazy, naive of me to wonder this.. couldn't they film the 'Jen' parts of the show, have her bulk up, then film the she hulk parts? It's been in production for at least 2 years, plenty of time for that to work. I'm not super excited about the show before the effects to be honest, and the medicore effects haven't made me any more excited. Female actors, and to a lesser extent actors in general, already have serious body issues so adding that kind of pressure on yo-yoing their bodies just sounds cruel and unusual to me so I definitely wouldn't advocate that. |
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