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Post by Prince Hal on Aug 31, 2022 11:36:41 GMT -5
It's interesting to me that our culture consumes comic books so much differently than we consume television. Comics from ten years ago are considered "classic" by this community while television from ten years ago is still being actively streamed by the general population, sometimes moreso than the new stuff. It would probably seem out of place to discuss currently popular shows like The Office, Grey's Anatomy, or Breaking Bad in this thread, and yet each are more than ten years old. I think part of the problem is that the word "classic" no longer is understood to mean what it used to mean. A classic -- whether it be a game, sporting event, novel, song, album, character, television show, movie, or whatever category you choose -- should be an exemplar of excellence that serves as a model for others. Although age certainly can play into that meaning, "classic" shouldn't be simply a synonym for "old" or "somewhat old." Age alone does not confer classic status.
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Post by berkley on Aug 31, 2022 12:13:20 GMT -5
It's interesting to me that our culture consumes comic books so much differently than we consume television. Comics from ten years ago are considered "classic" by this community while television from ten years ago is still being actively streamed by the general population, sometimes moreso than the new stuff. It would probably seem out of place to discuss currently popular shows like The Office, Grey's Anatomy, or Breaking Bad in this thread, and yet each are more than ten years old. I think part of the problem is that the word "classic" no longer is understood to mean what it used to mean. A classic -- whether it be a game, sporting event, novel, song, album, character, television show, movie, or whatever category you choose -- should be an exemplar of excellence that serves as a model for others. Although age certainly can play into that meaning, "classic" shouldn't be simply a synonym for "old" or "somewhat old." Age alone does not confer classic status.
And I think the 10 year mark was chosen here for comics somewhat arbitrarily just to have a clear definition for contests, etc. Personally, everything since the 2000s feels like the more or less the same era to me, as far as comics go.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2022 12:24:14 GMT -5
As for classic, in four years’ time, it’ll have been 100 years ago since my grandfather was born (he’s no longer with us). Feels odd to type that. As a kid, “100 years ago” was, well, history. For me growing up, 100 years ago was the 1880s. I recently commemorated 35 years since a film was released in U.S. cinemas. Yet, the year I was born (1980) was, well, WWII ended 35 years prior to that. 35 seems to mean something different now!
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Post by Prince Hal on Aug 31, 2022 12:30:57 GMT -5
I think part of the problem is that the word "classic" no longer is understood to mean what it used to mean. A classic -- whether it be a game, sporting event, novel, song, album, character, television show, movie, or whatever category you choose -- should be an exemplar of excellence that serves as a model for others. Although age certainly can play into that meaning, "classic" shouldn't be simply a synonym for "old" or "somewhat old." Age alone does not confer classic status.
And I think the 10 year mark was chosen here for comics somewhat arbitrarily just to have a clear definition for contests, etc. Personally, everything since the 2000s feels like the more or less the same era to me, as far as comics go.
Exactly, and that makes perfect sense. For me, everything after 1986 is just a blur, as that's when I pretty much gave up on most new stuff.
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,871
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Post by shaxper on Aug 31, 2022 20:21:01 GMT -5
I think part of the problem is that the word "classic" no longer is understood to mean what it used to mean. A classic -- whether it be a game, sporting event, novel, song, album, character, television show, movie, or whatever category you choose -- should be an exemplar of excellence that serves as a model for others. Although age certainly can play into that meaning, "classic" shouldn't be simply a synonym for "old" or "somewhat old." Age alone does not confer classic status. This could splinter off into a fasinating etymological debate. I certainly know a few Classics Professors who'd have a thing or two to say about this. As for which version of "classic" the title of this community implies, we certainly enjoy discussing some truly terrible comics from ages past, and we don't give much attention to newer comic works no matter how extraordinary they might be, so the age/era definition seems to apply more than the exemplar of excellence definition.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2022 3:42:53 GMT -5
If I have it right, Batman: The Animated Series debuted 30 years ago today, on Fox Kids.
I love this show, as do many. You know, even as a kid, watching some of those 60s and 70s Batman cartoons was not positive. Whatever the restrictions on violence, I just thought they were pretty mediocre. Very paint by numbers. I’m glad Batman: TAS came along. Was this the first cartoon to be called an “animated series” rather than a cartoon?
I wish I had this to rewatch. I like the mix of old and new vehicles/architecture, the Gothic nature of it, and how sophisticated it was.
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 5, 2022 11:16:09 GMT -5
If I have it right, Batman: The Animated Series debuted 30 years ago today, on Fox Kids. I love this show, as do many. You know, even as a kid, watching some of those 60s and 70s Batman cartoons was not positive. Whatever the restrictions on violence, I just thought they were pretty mediocre. Very paint by numbers. I’m glad Batman: TAS came along. Was this the first cartoon to be called an “animated series” rather than a cartoon? I wish I had this to rewatch. I like the mix of old and new vehicles/architecture, the Gothic nature of it, and how sophisticated it was. It's the first I can recall to use that tag. Generally speaking, adaptations of other works usually just used the original name or some variation. For instance, when the sitcom Happy Days was turned into a cartoon, it was The Fonz and the Happy Days Gang, to emphasize that Fonzie was the lead character. I Dream of Jeanie was turned into a cartoon, just called Jeanie. Filmation would use titles like The New Adventures of.... for various properties, including Batman, Glligan's Island and others. The 60s Adventures of Batman (from the Batman/Superman Hour), from Filmation, were pretty decent. They had the key villains and plenty of action, though they were in 7+ minute segments, so plots weren't very intricate. They made up for it with action, as this was before violence restrictions. That was because they were the primary target of those who wanted restrictions. So, the networks caved and an educational mandate was also installed, requiring the cartoons to have an educational component. Batman & Robin appeared in The New Scooby Doo Movies; but, the restrictions on violence meant they had to use elaborate traps. However, the plotting was more clever, as they had a longer story to unfold it and came up with some interesting mysteries, for their two appearances. The Super Friends went whole hog on the educational mandate, making most of the stories revolve around environmental concerns, which was a major current event, with the first Earth Day and the Environmental Protection Agency both being recent creations. It is tamer; but, they had some pretty interesting plots and a relatively long run time to carry them out. The next iteration went more for traditional adventure stories and morality tales, with special segments providing educational content (crafts, health tips, etc...). With Challenge of the Superfriends, they put supervillains back in the middle of things, but had to make the battles more abstract. With syndicated television, the restrictions were looser and the Fox network was very loose, to try to compete with the established Big 3. The creators of BTAS had cut their teeth on the earlier Saturday morning stuff and were aching to be able to do better stories and animation. Alan Burnett had worked on The Galactic Guardians version of the Super Friends, especially "The Fear," the episode that detailed Batman's origin, as he battled Scarecrow. Paul Dini had written for the fairly good Shazam cartoon and Bruce Timm had done animation work on several cartoons. Most were involved in Tiny Toons, including the episode, "Batduck," where Plucky Duck dreams of being a superhero, which satirized various eras of Batman. It helped that Warner had two massive hit films, with batman and wanted more and were willing to give these guys a lot of leeway. The inspiration to follow the look of the Fleischer Superman cartoons was a stroke of genius, as the simplified designs led to more fluid motion and action. One of the problems I had with the X-Men cartoon, of the same period, was that the figure work was so clunky, as they tried to make the characters muscular and it made for stiffer animation (plus the mediocre voice acting). They also used mature scripts that could still be shown to children. The real stroke of genius, in my opinion, was in the voice acting and direction, by Andrea Romano. They assembled a great core cast, then brought in a lot of people who were fresh to voice acting; but, Romano got them to give real performances. When Spider-Man launched, they also brought in guest actors and used Ed Asner, as J Jonah, after he had been doing a regular character on BTAS. However, his Roland Daggett was far better than his J Jonah Jameson, largely due to the directing of Romano. The producers have talked about how they dealt with budget constraints and network restrictions. When they had a story that needed a big visual, they would balance it with an episode that was more contained, to offset the costs. They negotiated with censors and might get a more violent episode, in exchange for a couple where there is action, but little violence. Bruce Timm once drew a gag cartoon of everything they were not allowed to use in the series.... {Spoiler}
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 5, 2022 11:37:55 GMT -5
I started watching old episodes of the UK show, The Comic Strip Presents. The show featured the top alternative comics from The Comic Strip, in little mini-movies, with different themes and characters, much like Terry Jones & Michael Palin's Ripping Yarns, though wider in scope. This included a send up of Enid Blyton's "Famous Five" series of children's books, a rock and roll parody, with a crappy band, called Bad News, a send up of various cop characters from the late 60s through the 90s, in a murder mystery, and similar fare. The bulk of the cast would also form the nucleus of The Young Ones and most of the others turned up in the series, at some point. The BBC had commissioned a pilot for the Young Ones, but kind of sat on it and then the Comic Strip Presents was done, for Channel 4 and the BBC were suddenly enthusiastic about The Young Ones. They are very different shows, but with the same people and the same kind of bite on the times. The Famous five parodies are filled with the racism and xenophobia of the stories and the time they were written, while one episode savages the Thatcher government. Another features Prime Minister John Major as a failed circus clown, who goes into politics and becomes prime minister, though he continues to help out the family circus, during his rise to power.
I just watched the episode Detectives on the Verge of a Nervous Breakdown. The basic plot sees a 90s gimmick detective (The Gourmet Detective) murdered by someone and the police bringing in a depressed Northern detective to investigate, but he gets nowhere, because he is depressed...and Northern (inspired by Spender).. The call up some old cops, who are 1970s hardcases, including a pair of gun toting maniacs (inspired by The Professionals) and a shouting detective inspector, who is always yelling "Shut it!," and "Leave it out!" (based on John Thaw's DCI Regan, in The Sweeney). Platform sole boots are a clue and an expert is brought in, a dandy with a Bentley and velvet clothes (inspired by Jason King). They have to solve the murder, as the independent production companies are too afraid to continue with their cop shows, or have their stars murdered. With no cop shows, there will be no tv cops, like this bunch. It features Jim Broadbent doing a John Thaw imitation and Jim Carter (Downton Abbey) as the police commander.
There are a few musical numbers, too, to add to the lunacy, including a sing-a-long that reveals the villain's plot.
In some ways, it is kind of Life on Mars, before Life on Mars.
The Bad News episode is reminiscent of This Is Spinal Tap, except it aired a few months before the release of the film.
Back in the 80s, when MTV picked up The Young Ones, for broadcast in America, they also brought over The Comic Strip Presents, since most of the same people were involved. They used clips from the Bad News episode repeatedly, to sell it to their audience.
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 5, 2022 12:30:13 GMT -5
ps Also watched more Columbo and saw Janet Leigh murder Sam Jaffe, while John Payne is prepared to take the fall (and Maurice Evans is the butler) and Hector Elizando murder Sal Mineo, while Jeff Goldblum has an uncredited cameo as a student protestor, outside the gates of the country's legation. I had mainly focused on the fact that the leader of the protestors was Bart Braverman, who played Belzer, on Vegas, then spotted Goldblum in a scene, when a limo comes through the front gates and they harass it. I checked, the episode is one year after his debut, as one of the punks, in Death Wish.
Watching the Janet Leigh one, I saw John Payne's credit, but couldn't match it with a face. Then, I saw Payne with Leigh and heard his voice, but was not exactly placing the face, until it finally dawned on me: Miracle on 34th Street! He had aged, lost some hair, had a mustache, but the eyes finally clued me in. The episode features Leigh as an aging film star, whose career went in decline and retired; but, a new retrospective film about musicals (based on That's Entertainment!) revives interest in her. She wants to make a comeback, on Broadway, in a self-financed production; but, her husband (Jaffe) is against it. There is a great twist at the end and the episode uses clips from an actual film, Walking my Baby Back Home, as an old film of Leigh's character. Leigh had a prominent role in the actual film, though the episode changes the name of her character. The original starred Donald O'Connor, but the episode says Payne's character was her dance partner, Ned Diamond (Leigh is Grace Wheeler, of Diamond & Wheeler). Maurice Evans, of Bewitched, is the butler. Great episode, with a terrific character study.
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Post by berkley on Sept 5, 2022 16:27:53 GMT -5
First I ever heard of The Comic Strip Presents, I'll definitely be keeping an eye out for that one.
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 5, 2022 16:54:00 GMT -5
First I ever heard of The Comic Strip Presents, I'll definitely be keeping an eye out for that one. The Comic Strip was a group of performers from the Comedy store, who were some of the leading performers of the alternative comedy movement, including Peter Richardson & Nigel Planer (who were a double act), Rik Mayal and Adrian Edmonson (ditto), Dawn French & Jennifer Saunders (same) and Alexi Sayle, who was the compere. They opened their own club and got the Comic Strip Presents gig with Channel 4 (which was just starting out) and a pilot for the Young Ones, at the BBC. Richardson was supposed to play Mike (The Cool One) on The Young Ones; but, he did not get along with producer/director Peter Jackson and bowed out. Richardson and writing partner Pete Richens did the bulk of the scripts and Richardson acted and later directed. There was a pilot film, directed by Julien Temple, where Saunders goes looking for French, who is supposed to be her sister, who has run away from a Salvation Army Shelter to join The Comic Strip. Series one had "The Five Go Mad in Dorset, with the Fabulous 5 on a cycling holiday, while also looking for a kidnapped scientist uncle and constantly running into gangsters and foreigners. Also features Robbie Coltrane. "War" has a Communist invasion of the UK, where two people retreat to a country home, but get separated. "The Beat Generation" features a group of Beat poets at a seaside villa, for a huge party. "Bad News Tour," is a documentary about a metal band going on a tour, but they are total f-ups. "Summer School has suburban students role playing an Iron Age village, in the middle of campus. Later episodes include "AFistful of Traveler's Cheques," about a group of spaghetti western fans who go to Spain (with plenty of SW cliches), the Detective episode, "The Five Go Mad on Mescalin," "Eddie Monsoon..ALife?" where Edmonson plays an entertainer, featured in a documentary. "Les Dogs" features a wedding reception, with rival gangs, where a gun battle breaks out, while they continue trying to carry on the reception activities. There is one about the efforts to stop the Thatcher government from flooding London to make it a yacht club (inspired by the battles between the government and the Greater London Council), where the group plays actors, playing the various politicians and figures, including Robbie Coltrane as Charles bronson as Ken Livingstone and Dawn French as Cher as Joan Ruddock, etc. Jennifer Saunders is Brigitte Nielsen as Margaret Thatcher, if you can wrap your head around that one. This retrospective gives you a nice feel of everything....
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 5, 2022 17:11:01 GMT -5
EDIT: never mind, can't link the scene.
The stuff is available on Youtube.
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 6, 2022 19:01:12 GMT -5
First I ever heard of The Comic Strip Presents, I'll definitely be keeping an eye out for that one. I have watched more episodes and do have to mention, there is a certain surreal quality to many of the episodes; so, the comedy isn't always gag-oriented as conceptual.
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Post by berkley on Sept 6, 2022 19:42:59 GMT -5
I like Alexei Sayle and French and Saunders, so their involvement alone is enticement enough for me.
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Post by Hoosier X on Sept 7, 2022 10:12:18 GMT -5
I watched an episode of Suspense last night.
I’ve listened to the radio show quite a bit, but I didn’t know there was a TV show. Apparently it lasted quite a few seasons and there’s over 200 episodes, except for the ones that don’t exist anymore.
The episode I watched was titled The Comic Strip Murder. It’s about an obsessive artist who draws a bloody adventure strip called Buzz O’Keefe. The female character based on his wife is going to be killed, and the wife thinks that the artist is going to kill her in real life!
Eva Marie Saint has a small part.
They occasionally showed panels from the strip. They didn’t really look like a comic strip, they were enlarged and simplified for the TV audience, I guess.
In the end credits, these comic strip panels were attributed to Dick Ayers.
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