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Post by Hoosier X on Jul 9, 2021 0:47:18 GMT -5
I went back and reread The Batman of Tomorrow. I have a digital copy of an Eighty Page Giant where it’s reprinted and I read it a few months ago.
I find Vicki Vale kind of hilarious. She has all the worst qualities of Lucy Lane and none of the good qualities of Lois. I guess she comes off as a Lois Lane rip-off but I think it makes sense for Batman to interact with the Gotham press corps and why wouldn’t there be a female photographer. And if you had a supporting character who’s a journalist who isn’t curious about Batman’s alter ego he or she would be the only person in Gotham who isn’t interested.
I’m not under the impression that Vicki is much respected in the Gotham press corps. She doesn’t work for the Gazette or even the Gotham Globe which is a rag of a newspaper. She works for Vue Magazine.
She gets by on personality and aggressiveness. And she dates Bruce Wayne from time to time. God knows what he sees in her.
Vicki Vale doesn’t really appear that often. She disappears for months and even years at a time.
Getting back to the story. This could have been so good if Bill Finger had written it. Brane Taylor comes off as kinda dumb. He must rely on his crime fighting gadgets A LOT. And he’s basically hitting on Vicki Vale constantly. He’s not very impressive and it’s easy to see why the Dynamic Duo didn’t call on him the next time they needed help protecting Batman’s identity.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jul 9, 2021 0:51:12 GMT -5
I went back and reread The Batman of Tomorrow. I have a digital copy of an Eighty Page Giant where it’s reprinted and I read it a few months ago. I find Vicki Vale kind of hilarious. She has all the worst qualities of Lucy Lane and none of the good qualities of Lois. I guess she comes off as a Lois Lane rip-off but I think it makes sense for Batman to interact with the Gotham press corps and why wouldn’t there be a female photographer. And if you had a supporting character who’s a journalist who isn’t curious about Batman’s alter ego he or she would be the only person in Gotham who isn’t interested. I’m not under the impression that Vicki is much respected in the Gotham press corps. She doesn’t work for the Gazette or even the Gotham Globe which is a rag of a newspaper. She works for Vue Magazine. She gets by on personality and aggressiveness. And she dates Bruce Wayne from time to time. God knows what he sees in her. Well, she did (somehow) notice that Batman's height was an inch off, and Batman (somehow) suspected she might, so she must be reasonably good at what she does. |
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Post by Hoosier X on Jul 9, 2021 1:23:35 GMT -5
I went back and reread The Batman of Tomorrow. I have a digital copy of an Eighty Page Giant where it’s reprinted and I read it a few months ago. I find Vicki Vale kind of hilarious. She has all the worst qualities of Lucy Lane and none of the good qualities of Lois. I guess she comes off as a Lois Lane rip-off but I think it makes sense for Batman to interact with the Gotham press corps and why wouldn’t there be a female photographer. And if you had a supporting character who’s a journalist who isn’t curious about Batman’s alter ego he or she would be the only person in Gotham who isn’t interested. I’m not under the impression that Vicki is much respected in the Gotham press corps. She doesn’t work for the Gazette or even the Gotham Globe which is a rag of a newspaper. She works for Vue Magazine. She gets by on personality and aggressiveness. And she dates Bruce Wayne from time to time. God knows what he sees in her. Well, she did (somehow) notice that Batman's height was an inch off, and Batman (somehow) suspected she might, so she must be reasonably good at what she does. I wish we weren’t so far away from Batman One Hundred and Fifty Seven. It has the best Vicki Vale story and also the best endangered Batman secret identity story that I’ve ever read. It is hilarious. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jul 9, 2021 4:45:24 GMT -5
Here's a question: I know from my love of 1930s movies and serials that the "girl" reporter thing neither began nor ended with Lois Lane, but where did it come from? I get that news reporters of the eras were often considered legitimate heroes and that a "girl" reporter allowed for romantic tension in an otherwise stereotypically male-driven plot, as well as a fantasy with which to entice girl readers, but was there a real-world female reporter that inspired all this, or did some fictional work come up with the idea first and then everyone else just sort of copied?
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Post by foxley on Jul 9, 2021 5:01:20 GMT -5
Here's a question: I know from my love of 1930s movies and serials that the "girl" reporter thing neither began nor ended with Lois Lane, but where did it come from? I get that news reporters of the eras were often considered legitimate heroes and that a "girl" reporter allowed for romantic tension in an otherwise stereotypically male-driven plot, as well as a fantasy with which to entice girl readers, but was there a real-world female reporter that inspired all this, or did some fictional work come up with the idea first and then everyone else just sort of copied? Nellie Bly, a female reporter who helped to create the field of investigative journalism in the 1880s. She is most famous for an exposé of mental health by going undercover as an inmate in an insane asylum in 1887, and for travelling around the world in 72 days in 1889 in imitation of the Jules Verne novel.
An absolutely fascinating woman, ahead of her time in so many ways. A link to her Wikipedia article is here. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jul 9, 2021 5:07:10 GMT -5
Here's a question: I know from my love of 1930s movies and serials that the "girl" reporter thing neither began nor ended with Lois Lane, but where did it come from? I get that news reporters of the eras were often considered legitimate heroes and that a "girl" reporter allowed for romantic tension in an otherwise stereotypically male-driven plot, as well as a fantasy with which to entice girl readers, but was there a real-world female reporter that inspired all this, or did some fictional work come up with the idea first and then everyone else just sort of copied? Nellie Bly, a female reporter who helped to create the field of investigative journalism in the 1880s. She is most famous for an exposé of mental health by going undercover as an inmate in an insane asylum in 1887, and for travelling around the world in 72 days in 1889 in imitation of the Jules Verne novel. An absolutely fascinating woman, ahead of her time in so many ways. A link to her Wikipedia article is here. Oh yes, I've definitely heard of Bly, and I love the Val Lewton film (loosely) based upon her mental health expose, but I assumed there was a more immediate inspiration in the 1930s, as "girl" reporters were nearly ubiquitous in adventure and crime serials of the time. |
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Post by Hoosier X on Jul 9, 2021 7:52:39 GMT -5
It’s a good question. I watch lots of movies from the thirties and forties and there are certainly quite a few girl reporters in the old movies. One film I watch from time to time is Front Page Woman with Bette Davis. I love it. It’s very well written and very funny and exciting with a great cast.
The popularity of the concept eventually gives us His Girl Friday and Lois Lane and Brenda Starr which started in nineteen forty. By the mid forties Brenda Starr got her own movie serial starring Joan Woodbury. It’s hilarious.
After Nellie Bly a more immediate real life inspiration for the girl reporter might be Maurine Watkins who worked in Chicago journalism and eventually covered the female murderers who inspired the musical Chicago. As a matter of fact she quit journalism and wrote a play about her experiences. It was also called Chicago and was turned into a popular film by the end of the twenties.
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Post by Hoosier X on Jul 9, 2021 7:58:44 GMT -5
According to Mikes Amazing World Vicki Vale appeared about thirty five times in a fifteen year period. It’s more than I thought.
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Post by Hoosier X on Jul 9, 2021 8:07:43 GMT -5
The silent film version of Chicago is still on YouTube.
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Post by MDG on Jul 9, 2021 8:37:27 GMT -5
Magazines about comics like Comic Book Marketplace sometimes have articles about segments of the press attacking comic books and it does indeed start very early. So if we see serious pressure put on DC prior to 1945, then I suppose my theory about post-WWII jingoism goes out the window. Maybe the criticism/pressure was always there, building momentum since the modern comic was born in the mid 1930s. By the time of the 1950s, America's post-war pride was so ever-present that it seemed obvious to connect that to crime's lessened depiction in the comic book page, but perhaps I connected two dots that were only marginally related. It might also be that after the war, individuals and civic groups had more time to focus on domestic problems. This was also the time people started railing about 1) communist influence and 2) "juvenile delinquency," both of which could lead right to comic books.
Also remember that comic books are in line of things that become popular, were attacked, (sometimes) toned down or "domesticated", and survived: penny dreadfuls, movies, pulps, rock and roll, saturday morning cartoons, video games, hip hop... It's probably because comics books didn't have the profit potential or industry clout of these other things (in the 50s anyway) that they seem to have gotten hit a lot harder.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jul 9, 2021 9:36:14 GMT -5
DC's comics had not been violent, compared to other adventure comics, since the very early 40s. Long before the CCA was a glimmer in anyone's eye, DC/AA/National had an editorial advisory board that, while not particularly powerful, at least had a voice as to the levels of violence and other perceived unsavoriness in their comics. I'd love to know more about this, Slam. Any idea why DC/National felt the need to create an editorial advisory board or when it was implemented? Hoosier_X beat me too it. But yeah, there had been pressure on publishers from near the start. And since DC/National was one of the big dogs they got a lot of the heat and had more to lose. I always thought it was cool that former heavyweight champ Gene Tunney was on the board and that's how I first found out that he was on the executive board of the Boy Scouts. |
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Post by Cei-U! on Jul 9, 2021 10:04:15 GMT -5
DC's comics had not been violent, compared to other adventure comics, since the very early 40s. Long before the CCA was a glimmer in anyone's eye, DC/AA/National had an editorial advisory board that, while not particularly powerful, at least had a voice as to the levels of violence and other perceived unsavoriness in their comics. I'd love to know more about this, Slam. Any idea why DC/National felt the need to create an editorial advisory board or when it was implemented? I cover the rationale behnd the DC/AA Editorial Advisory Board in some depth in the 1941 chapter of my book.
Cei-U! I summon the shameless plug!
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Post by Ricky Jackson on Jul 9, 2021 10:25:40 GMT -5
It's been years since I read it, but David Hajdu's "The Ten-Cent Plague" provides a pretty thorough overview of comics censorship in the 40s and 50s. Looks to be pretty affordable on Amazon or for kindle
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jul 9, 2021 10:57:02 GMT -5
I'd love to know more about this, Slam. Any idea why DC/National felt the need to create an editorial advisory board or when it was implemented? I cover the rationale behnd the DC/AA Editorial Advisory Board in some depth in the 1941 chapter of my book. Cei-U! I summon the shameless plug!
Sadly, no one sends the CCF free reader copies  I really do need to get my hands on your book, and not just because you're a dear friend. Once I've witled down my to-read list just a little further, I'll be making that purchase happen. I'm also considering buying one of those high-priced new editions of Seduction of the Innocent. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Jul 9, 2021 11:39:17 GMT -5
About 20 years before the attacks on comics, newspaper strips went through the same thing. Comics were considered subliterate material and unwholesome. Newspapers banded together to defend their First Amendment rights and won; comic book publishers rolled over and instituted the Code, to get the heat off and target their competitors who were outselling them with crime and horror. The chief publisher who fought was William Gaines, who was specifically targeted by the Code, in the aftermath. He tried working within it and threw up his hands (with expletives, if the legends are true), after it was clear that nothing he did would satisfy.
David Hajdu's The 10-Cent Plague is a must-read for the subject, covering the build-up, the background of the previous generation's attacks, how many in the industry left to find other work, completely outside of commercial art, and the publisher response. He talked to people who were fantastic artists, but the stigma became so great they left art altogether.
The older generation of comic artists were always trying to leave, for better paying and more respectable work, like newspaper strips and the slick magazines. It was the young generation, who were kids, who stayed and built the Silver Age. Guys like Kubert, Infantino, Kane and others. They started out as teenagers, working as assistants and gofers, learning their craft, while their bosses tried to get out. They saw the value in the medium and slowly transformed it, later.
Josette Frank was a psychologist and a respected one and was a staunch defender of the educational value of comics. However, her stance put her at odds with many of her peers, particularly Wertham. She ended up ostracized from her profession. The movie Professor Marston and the Wonder Women portrays her as a figure of censorship, from the Kefauver Committee, which is so false as to nearly constitute slander. It was one of many faults in that film, which jettisoned the truth for it's own thematic agenda. Her daughter attacked the film for the portrayal of her mother.
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