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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2022 13:11:16 GMT -5
You are spot-on about U.F.O. defying the trope. I blew off U.F.O. during its original U. S. run in 1971. But, a couple of years ago, I caught up with it on YouTube. I was impressed with the interpersonal drama---a science-fiction series which placed more emphasis on critical judgements and the weight of command decisions than on flying saucers and alien creatures. If you haven't gotten to it yet, keep an eye out for the episode "Confetti Check A-O.K." I've never seen a better example of the lonely, grinding pressure of command. It's my favourite episode of the series. (If you haven't seen it yet, don't jump to it until you've got at least four or five episodes under your belt. One needs to have a good grasp of Commander Straker's personality and dedication to duty for "Confetti Check A-O.K." to have a real impact. Particularly, the last scene.) Yes, I have seen that episode. It was very poignant. There are about six (or five) recommended viewing orders of the show, from the production order and Blu-ray order to an order endorsed by someone who wrote a book on the show. So I was able to see that episode about 2 weeks ago. “A Question of Priorities” is on the Blu-ray before "Confetti Check A-O.K”, but the viewing order that I Googled has the latter episode recommended before the former. I am glad I followed that, given how “A Question of Priorities” focuses on Straker’s son. And you are so right, about the emphasis on critical judgements and the weight of command decisions than on saucers and creatures. I do like Straker’s bureaucratic battles with General Henderson. There have been rumours of a big-screen remake for years but I worry it’d just be a CGI-fest.
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Post by Commander Benson on Jul 6, 2022 13:45:22 GMT -5
"A Question of Priorities" and "The Square Triangle" both illustate the terrible, almost unthinkable decisions that must be made by the man in command.
In both episodes, that aspect was far more engaging than shooting down the flying saucers.
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Post by EdoBosnar on Jul 6, 2022 14:12:25 GMT -5
"The Square Triangle" is perhaps not the best but certainly the most memorable episode of UFO. I still remember saying, 'whoa!' out loud at the ending when I watched it for the first time.
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Post by badwolf on Jul 6, 2022 15:05:53 GMT -5
One trope that bothers me is the hero just consistently stumbling into unusual adventures. If there's a story engine or a narrative explanation, I'm fine with that. I like the reveal in Doctor Who that the Tardis sends the Doctor to places he'll be needed. But it bothers me if a superhero gets mugged on a weekly basis. It did annoy me when Shang-Chi kept getting mugged early in his series but apart from that, isn't this just how adventure comics work? Or adventure series in any media?
I actually didn't like that thing in Doctor Who... I felt it was something that didn't need to be explained. To be honest I'm not fond of the whole "sentient TARDIS" idea.
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Post by mistermets on Jul 7, 2022 10:18:53 GMT -5
One trope that bothers me is the hero just consistently stumbling into unusual adventures. If there's a story engine or a narrative explanation, I'm fine with that. I like the reveal in Doctor Who that the Tardis sends the Doctor to places he'll be needed. But it bothers me if a superhero gets mugged on a weekly basis. It did annoy me when Shang-Chi kept getting mugged early in his series but apart from that, isn't this just how adventure comics work? Or adventure series in any media?
I actually didn't like that thing in Doctor Who... I felt it was something that didn't need to be explained. To be honest I'm not fond of the whole "sentient TARDIS" idea.
It works for one-offs. It's okay to have a story in which outrageous things happen to a seemingly random character. The only reason we're interested in John McClane is that his wife and kids have been taken hostage by terrorists. But after the initial situation, when the hero gets into new adventures, it's better to have some kind of explanation, be it someone seeking revenge or the hero's expertise. If Ms. Marple keeps stumbling into murder mysteries in Small Town England, the cops would eventually decide that she's a person of interest.
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Post by badwolf on Jul 7, 2022 10:41:18 GMT -5
If Ms. Marple keeps stumbling into murder mysteries in Small Town England, the cops would eventually decide that she's a person of interest.
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Post by Commander Benson on Jul 7, 2022 11:30:04 GMT -5
If Ms. Marple keeps stumbling into murder mysteries in Small Town England, the cops would eventually decide that she's a person of interest. Heh. I always thought the last episode of Murder, She Wrote should have showed Jessica Fletcher under suspicion of being a serial killer because of the 270-odd murders that occurred when she was around.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Oct 11, 2022 13:58:24 GMT -5
Great explanation, Commander. I do think details matter. I am watching UFO on Blu-ray. One of the many things that makes it credible is how busy an organization SHADO is. There are the top guys such as Commander Straker, but it looks very busy, with all sorts of people performing vital functions. Yes, the show will focus on Straker, Colonel Freeman and Colonel Foster, but SHADO seems like such a hive of activity. Another bit of trope-breaking in UFO {Spoiler: Click to show} is when Straker's kid died after his dad prioritized a mission over saving his son. The "hero doesn't divert crucial resources for a personal matter even though it costs them greatly in the end" is an overused one, but in UFO it had repercussions all the way through the series' end. It wasn't just a one-episode stunt. A trope that grated me way back when (the straw that broke the camel's back was an early issue of Cloak and Dagger) was how it was seemingly impossible to run into a priest who wasn't (a) a fanatic, (b) secretly a devil worshipper, (c) lusting after a young heroine or (d) any combination thereof. Thank heaven for army chaplains; they seemed to usually get a pass in that department.
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Post by tarkintino on Oct 11, 2022 16:26:01 GMT -5
A trope that grated me way back when (the straw that broke the camel's back was an early issue of Cloak and Dagger) was how it was seemingly impossible to run into a priest who wasn't (a) a fanatic, (b) secretly a devil worshipper, (c) lusting after a young heroine or (d) any combination thereof. Thank many a Baby Boom (and Generation X) generation writers for that, as many held anti-religious (and practitioner) views, so to see endless stories of the kind of tropes you refer to was damn near unavoidable, and certainly tiresome.
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Post by badwolf on Oct 11, 2022 19:09:13 GMT -5
A trope that grated me way back when (the straw that broke the camel's back was an early issue of Cloak and Dagger) was how it was seemingly impossible to run into a priest who wasn't (a) a fanatic, (b) secretly a devil worshipper, (c) lusting after a young heroine or (d) any combination thereof. Thank many a Baby Boom (and Generation X) generation writers for that, as many held anti-religious (and practitioner) views, so to see endless stories of the kind of tropes you refer to was damn near unavoidable, and certainly tiresome. I don't think the priest Cloak and Dagger hung around with fell into any of those categories did he?
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Post by foxley on Oct 11, 2022 21:15:11 GMT -5
Thank many a Baby Boom (and Generation X) generation writers for that, as many held anti-religious (and practitioner) views, so to see endless stories of the kind of tropes you refer to was damn near unavoidable, and certainly tiresome. I don't think the priest Cloak and Dagger hung around with fell into any of those categories did he? As with anything, there are exceptions. Father Bowen, who was Dagger's uncle IIRC, was a thoroughly decent man.
So was Rev. Craemer, the chaplain to the Suicide Squad and dedicated to doing his best to help some of the most reprehensible human beings around. A few issues gave him more focus and did an excellent job of displaying his faith.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Oct 12, 2022 6:43:12 GMT -5
Thank many a Baby Boom (and Generation X) generation writers for that, as many held anti-religious (and practitioner) views, so to see endless stories of the kind of tropes you refer to was damn near unavoidable, and certainly tiresome. I don't think the priest Cloak and Dagger hung around with fell into any of those categories did he?
I'll let the man himself make his case as he recaps his career (in Strange Tales #13, after he's been in a straightjacket for a while) :
"My faith? I have none left... I once had plenty, but then I entered the demon Cloak, and there I witnessed Judgement Day, a day bereft pf hope and salvation * (*C & D #1!)
The death of righteousness was only underscored when I discovered that the flock that I taught and led was rife with drug-dealing scum, living well off the misery of others * (*C & D #6)
But the final, killing blow to my faith came when the church hierarchy turned its back on me because I believed in the power of an exorcism to kill the soul-destroying demon Cloak and save the pure angel of light Dagger* (*C & D #7)
She is the only pure, uncorrupt thing left in this universe... I had to possess her... to own her... I was driven mad by desire for her purity..."
Good of him to provide footnotes, but he's kind of a walking cliché!
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Post by tonebone on Oct 12, 2022 7:36:44 GMT -5
One trope that bothers me is the hero just consistently stumbling into unusual adventures. If there's a story engine or a narrative explanation, I'm fine with that. I like the reveal in Doctor Who that the Tardis sends the Doctor to places he'll be needed. But it bothers me if a superhero gets mugged on a weekly basis. It did annoy me when Shang-Chi kept getting mugged early in his series but apart from that, isn't this just how adventure comics work? Or adventure series in any media?
I actually didn't like that thing in Doctor Who... I felt it was something that didn't need to be explained. To be honest I'm not fond of the whole "sentient TARDIS" idea.
This was a trope that bothered me as a kid watching The Incredible Hulk. "Why does everyone, mostly complete strangers, pick on Banner every episode?"
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Post by badwolf on Oct 12, 2022 8:19:29 GMT -5
I don't think the priest Cloak and Dagger hung around with fell into any of those categories did he?
I'll let the man himself make his case as he recaps his career (in Strange Tales #13, after he's been in a straightjacket for a while) :
"My faith? I have none left... I once had plenty, but then I entered the demon Cloak, and there I witnessed Judgement Day, a day bereft pf hope and salvation * (*C & D #1!)
The death of righteousness was only underscored when I discovered that the flock that I taught and led was rife with drug-dealing scum, living well off the misery of others * (*C & D #6)
But the final, killing blow to my faith came when the church hierarchy turned its back on me because I believed in the power of an exorcism to kill the soul-destroying demon Cloak and save the pure angel of light Dagger* (*C & D #7)
She is the only pure, uncorrupt thing left in this universe... I had to possess her... to own her... I was driven mad by desire for her purity..."
Good of him to provide footnotes, but he's kind of a walking cliché!
Ew. I have read the second series (if that's what it is from) but it was a long time ago and I didn't remember.
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,140
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Post by Confessor on Oct 12, 2022 14:23:15 GMT -5
This was a trope that bothered me as a kid watching The Incredible Hulk. "Why does everyone, mostly complete strangers, pick on Banner every episode?" He's just got one of those faces you want to punch.
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