Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,200
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Post by Confessor on Oct 12, 2021 3:13:42 GMT -5
Spotted this story on the BBC. Apparently the latest Superman, Jon Kent, is going to be revealed to be bisexual in November's issue. It's apparently all part of the 'Superman: Son of Kal-El' storyline that is currently running. In this forthcoming issue Jon will be getting romanticly involved with his male friend Jay Nakamura. No doubt this will cause the usual teeth-gnashing and fury from the man-child bigots and online trolls. But then again, I'd be lying if I said I didn't roll my eyes at the shallow virtue signalling and obvious "outrage marketing" aspect of it all. On a related note, I also dislike the way that DC have chosen National Coming Out Day to announce this. I mean, the day is meant to bring attention to the fact that, even in 2021, not everybody is accepted for who they are or allowed to just be honest about who they're attracted to. It never sits well with me when a money-grabbing, tax-dodging bunch of fat capitalist pigs like Warner Bros jumps on a minority bandwagon and aligns themselves with some important social issue or terrible injustice just to sell more of their s**t. Anyway, full story here... www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-58879161
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Post by Icctrombone on Oct 12, 2021 4:39:55 GMT -5
It feels like a non story to me , but anything to sell their comics.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Oct 12, 2021 9:16:05 GMT -5
Spotted this story on the BBC. Apparently the latest Superman, Jon Kent, is going to be revealed to be bisexual in November's issue. It's apparently all part of the 'Superman: Son of Kal-El' storyline that is currently running. In this forthcoming issue Jon will be getting romanticly involved with his male friend Jay Nakamura. No doubt this will cause the usual teeth-gnashing and fury from the man-child bigots and online trolls. But then again, I'd be lying if I said I didn't roll my eyes at the shallow virtue signalling and obvious "outrage marketing" aspect of it all. On a related note, I also dislike the way that DC have chosen National Coming Out Day to announce this. I mean, the day is meant to bring attention to the fact that, even in 2021, not everybody is accepted for who they are or allowed to just be honest about who they're attracted to. It never sits well with me when a money-grabbing, tax-dodging bunch of fat capitalist pigs like Warner Bros jumps on a minority bandwagon and aligns themselves with some important social issue or terrible injustice just to sell more of their s**t. Anyway, full story here... www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-58879161Sure, it's just a cash grab so I'm not going to go head over heals applauding them but at the same time it does create representation which can help build towards "normalcy" in the public's eye so I'm not going to be too down on the move even if there are obvious ulterior motives.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Oct 12, 2021 12:56:38 GMT -5
WHAT???
Superman has kids???
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Crimebuster
CCF Podcast Guru
Making comics!
Posts: 3,958
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Post by Crimebuster on Oct 12, 2021 15:19:39 GMT -5
WHAT??? Superman has kids???And the mother is Gwen Stacy!!!
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Post by tingramretro on Oct 12, 2021 16:10:26 GMT -5
Spotted this story on the BBC. Apparently the latest Superman, Jon Kent, is going to be revealed to be bisexual in November's issue. It's apparently all part of the 'Superman: Son of Kal-El' storyline that is currently running. In this forthcoming issue Jon will be getting romanticly involved with his male friend Jay Nakamura. No doubt this will cause the usual teeth-gnashing and fury from the man-child bigots and online trolls. But then again, I'd be lying if I said I didn't roll my eyes at the shallow virtue signalling and obvious "outrage marketing" aspect of it all. On a related note, I also dislike the way that DC have chosen National Coming Out Day to announce this. I mean, the day is meant to bring attention to the fact that, even in 2021, not everybody is accepted for who they are or allowed to just be honest about who they're attracted to. It never sits well with me when a money-grabbing, tax-dodging bunch of fat capitalist pigs like Warner Bros jumps on a minority bandwagon and aligns themselves with some important social issue or terrible injustice just to sell more of their s**t. Anyway, full story here... www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-58879161Sure, it's just a cash grab so I'm not going to go head over heals applauding them but at the same time it does create representation which can help build towards "normalcy" in the public's eye so I'm not going to be too down on the move even if there are obvious ulterior motives. Yes, but these days it seems to me to be more like over representation. First Robin, now Jon? It's a bit much.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Oct 12, 2021 16:12:28 GMT -5
Sure, it's just a cash grab so I'm not going to go head over heals applauding them but at the same time it does create representation which can help build towards "normalcy" in the public's eye so I'm not going to be too down on the move even if there are obvious ulterior motives. Yes, but these days it seems to me to be more like over representation. First Robin, now Jon? It's a bit much. Oh noes! Two characters out of thousands.
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Post by tingramretro on Oct 12, 2021 16:32:53 GMT -5
Yes, but these days it seems to me to be more like over representation. First Robin, now Jon? It's a bit much. Oh noes! Two characters out of thousands. It's not about how many, it's about the sudden spate of them. And also which characters. I get that the gay community want representation, but Tim Drake is a character I've followed since his creation almost thirty years ago. He's a character I identified with because I've followed his development since the beginning. He was "my" Robin, the one I identified with. And now he's been taken away from me. And his decades long relationship with Spoiler, which I was emotionally invested in,has been ditched in order to make him gay. I resent that, frankly. I don't see that as me being homophobic, I see it as DC being completely oblivious to how invested long term readers are in their characters. And yes, I feel the same way about Alan Scott, another character I'd followed for decades. Where is Molly, anyway? Does anyone care?
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Post by brutalis on Oct 13, 2021 2:31:48 GMT -5
WHAT??? Superman has kids???And the mother is Gwen Stacy!!! I would be more impressed if they gave Supes a pair of illegitimate kids with Lori Lemaris. One with a tail and the other with legs. And does this woke awakening mean we get a Tim and Jon series called the Brave and the Bold or World's Finest?
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Oct 13, 2021 7:54:50 GMT -5
Oh noes! Two characters out of thousands. It's not about how many, it's about the sudden spate of them. And also which characters. I get that the gay community want representation, but Tim Drake is a character I've followed since his creation almost thirty years ago. He's a character I identified with because I've followed his development since the beginning. He was "my" Robin, the one I identified with. And now he's been taken away from me. And his decades long relationship with Spoiler, which I was emotionally invested in,has been ditched in order to make him gay. I resent that, frankly. I don't see that as me being homophobic, I see it as DC being completely oblivious to how invested long term readers are in their characters. And yes, I feel the same way about Alan Scott, another character I'd followed for decades. Where is Molly, anyway? Does anyone care? I felt the same when Jean Grey was brought back, Madelyne Pryor turned into a clone and Scott Summers into a jerk. That's when I first realized that the emotional investment of fans weighed little against the possibility of generating a little more money, or a little more visibility on social media.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Oct 13, 2021 7:58:43 GMT -5
Oh noes! Two characters out of thousands. It's not about how many, it's about the sudden spate of them. And also which characters. I get that the gay community want representation, but Tim Drake is a character I've followed since his creation almost thirty years ago. He's a character I identified with because I've followed his development since the beginning. He was "my" Robin, the one I identified with. And now he's been taken away from me. And his decades long relationship with Spoiler, which I was emotionally invested in,has been ditched in order to make him gay. I resent that, frankly. I don't see that as me being homophobic, I see it as DC being completely oblivious to how invested long term readers are in their characters. And yes, I feel the same way about Alan Scott, another character I'd followed for decades. Where is Molly, anyway? Does anyone care? I've never gotten why a character's sexual orientation should stop one from identifying with them, I mean by that token do you have a hard time identifying with female characters because they're interested in men? Anne Shirley Cuthbert from Anne of Green Gables has always been and shall always be my favorite fictional character, and I totally see my self as her when I read L. M. Montgomery's novels and I've never once felt weird reading about her feelings for Gilbert Blythe or had any trouble understanding why she feels the way she does...and the reason for that is despite the fact that she's pining after a boy it's no different than my own memories of relationships I've had with women. Gay, straight, bi...or whatever else there might be... it's all the same emotions, so what's the big deal?
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Post by tingramretro on Oct 13, 2021 8:36:55 GMT -5
It's not about how many, it's about the sudden spate of them. And also which characters. I get that the gay community want representation, but Tim Drake is a character I've followed since his creation almost thirty years ago. He's a character I identified with because I've followed his development since the beginning. He was "my" Robin, the one I identified with. And now he's been taken away from me. And his decades long relationship with Spoiler, which I was emotionally invested in,has been ditched in order to make him gay. I resent that, frankly. I don't see that as me being homophobic, I see it as DC being completely oblivious to how invested long term readers are in their characters. And yes, I feel the same way about Alan Scott, another character I'd followed for decades. Where is Molly, anyway? Does anyone care? I've never gotten why a character's sexual orientation should stop one from identifying with them, I mean by that token do you have a hard time identifying with female characters because they're interested in men? Anne Shirley Cuthbert from Anne of Green Gables has always been and shall always be my favorite fictional character, and I totally see my self as her when I read L. M. Montgomery's novels and I've never once felt weird reading about her feelings for Gilbert Blythe or had any trouble understanding why she feels the way she does...and the reason for that is despite the fact that she's pining after a boy it's no different than my own memories of relationships I've had with women. Gay, straight, bi...or whatever else there might be... it's all the same emotions, so what's the big deal? I don't really identify with female characters. Sorry. I might enjoy reading about them, but I don't identify with them. I identify with characters who are like me.
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,200
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Post by Confessor on Oct 13, 2021 8:50:52 GMT -5
It's not about how many, it's about the sudden spate of them. And also which characters. I get that the gay community want representation, but Tim Drake is a character I've followed since his creation almost thirty years ago. He's a character I identified with because I've followed his development since the beginning. He was "my" Robin, the one I identified with. And now he's been taken away from me. And his decades long relationship with Spoiler, which I was emotionally invested in,has been ditched in order to make him gay. I resent that, frankly. I don't see that as me being homophobic, I see it as DC being completely oblivious to how invested long term readers are in their characters. And yes, I feel the same way about Alan Scott, another character I'd followed for decades. Where is Molly, anyway? Does anyone care? I've never gotten why a character's sexual orientation should stop one from identifying with them, I mean by that token do you have a hard time identifying with female characters because they're interested in men? Anne Shirley Cuthbert from Anne of Green Gables has always been and shall always be my favorite fictional character, and I totally see my self as her when I read L. M. Montgomery's novels and I've never once felt weird reading about her feelings for Gilbert Blythe or had any trouble understanding why she feels the way she does...and the reason for that is despite the fact that she's pining after a boy it's no different than my own memories of relationships I've had with women. Gay, straight, bi...or whatever else there might be... it's all the same emotions, so what's the big deal? Not necessarily wanting to speak for tingramretro, or anyone else who has a problem with this sort of thing, but I think the most important thing to remember is that these are fictional characters. They are not real people. If a real, live human being comes out as homosexual or bisexual then of course there should be a willingness to support, accept and understand them (unless you're a total asshat). But if you have followed a beloved fictional character for years and years and then some writer or editorial team suddenly decides to have him/her come out as homosexual/bisexual it is a deliberate decision being made by the creatives working on that character. And I think some people feel -- with some justification -- that it's a decision that doesn't in any way need to be taken. In comics, it is likely that readers have seen these characters act in a way representative of a certain sexual orientation and been privy to their innermost thoughts for years, without even the remotest suggestion of them being closeted. Therefore, suddenly changing their sexuality is a fundamental change to that character's makeup that is obviously going to rankle with some long term fans (yes, I believe a person's sexuality is a fundamental aspect of their psychological makeup). So, I think it's reasonable for fans of these characters -- and even casual observers -- to be somewhat cynical and annoyed about the motives behind such dramatic changes, whether they believe it's "outrage marketing" to drive up publicity/sales, or empty "virtue signalling", or diversity box-ticking or whatever. However, most importantly, it is a mistake to automatically equate a person's attitudes towards a previously heterosexual fictional character suddenly being revealed to be homosexual or bisexual with their attitudes towards a real human being who comes out.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Oct 13, 2021 8:52:03 GMT -5
I've never gotten why a character's sexual orientation should stop one from identifying with them, I mean by that token do you have a hard time identifying with female characters because they're interested in men? Anne Shirley Cuthbert from Anne of Green Gables has always been and shall always be my favorite fictional character, and I totally see my self as her when I read L. M. Montgomery's novels and I've never once felt weird reading about her feelings for Gilbert Blythe or had any trouble understanding why she feels the way she does...and the reason for that is despite the fact that she's pining after a boy it's no different than my own memories of relationships I've had with women. Gay, straight, bi...or whatever else there might be... it's all the same emotions, so what's the big deal? I don't really identify with female characters. Sorry. I might enjoy reading about them, but I don't identify with them. I identify with characters who are like me. That's just the thing though...they ARE just like you, male female, gay, straight...the experiences aren't that different; they're all facets of the human experience.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Oct 13, 2021 9:00:52 GMT -5
I've never gotten why a character's sexual orientation should stop one from identifying with them, I mean by that token do you have a hard time identifying with female characters because they're interested in men? Anne Shirley Cuthbert from Anne of Green Gables has always been and shall always be my favorite fictional character, and I totally see my self as her when I read L. M. Montgomery's novels and I've never once felt weird reading about her feelings for Gilbert Blythe or had any trouble understanding why she feels the way she does...and the reason for that is despite the fact that she's pining after a boy it's no different than my own memories of relationships I've had with women. Gay, straight, bi...or whatever else there might be... it's all the same emotions, so what's the big deal? Not necessarily wanting to speak for tingramretro, or anyone else who has a problem with this sort of thing, but I think the most important thing to remember is that these are fictional characters. They are not real people. If a real, live human being comes out as homosexual or bisexual then of course there should be a willingness to support, accept and understand them (unless you're a total asshat). But if you have followed a beloved fictional character for years and years and then some writer or editorial team suddenly decides to have him/her come out as homosexual/bisexual it is a deliberate decision made by those creatives working on the character. And it's a decision that doesn't in any way have to be taken. In comics, it is likely that readers have seen these characters act in a way representative of a certain sexual orientation and been privvy to their innermost thoughts for years, without even the remotest suggestion of them being closeted. Therefore, suddenly changing their sexuality is a fundamental change to that character's makeup that is obviously going to rankle with some long term fans (yes, I believe a person's sexuality is a fundamental aspect of their psychological makeup – right after gender in terms of importance). So, I think it's reasonable for fans of these characters -- and even casual observers -- to be somewhat cynical and annoyed about the motives behind such dramatic changes, whether it's "outrage marketing" to drive up publiscity/sales, or empty "virtue signalling", or whatever. However, most importantly, it is a mistake to automatically conflate a person's attitudes towards a previously heterosexual fictional character suddenly being revealed to be homosexual or bisexual with their attitudes towards a real human being who comes out. It amounts to he same thing though, fictional or real...nothing has changed about the character from when you thought they were straight to learning that they are gay. It doesn't make them less heroic, less intelligent, less humorous or any other characteristic that made you like them in the first place just because they are now gay. The only difference is that they're attracted to a different sex, and if that's a deal breaker then yeah that does say something whether its a fictional character or not. Sure we know there is a slightly cynical reason for making a character gay, and a little exasperation and eye rolling at that corporate decision because it seems hollow is to be expected and is indeed acceptable, but when you get into more than that? That the character is ruined, "taken away" from you and causes resentment simply for being gay? That's a completely different kind of reaction and one that shouldn't be accepted.
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