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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2021 10:55:49 GMT -5
it's getting a little easier, as I'm hitting couples some others have posted. in this case, just posted yesterday by Crimebuster (I think). but my #4? Cap & Diamondbackreally, the easiest explanation I can give? - Marvel freaking got me to buy a CAPTAIN AMERICA book (for *years*) featuring a pink haired ex member of the Serpent Squad (which happens to be my favorite Marvel villain group, but she also happens to be, by far, my least favorite member of that group!). the pairing was phenomenal. . watching the oil & water beginning, then the development of feelings, and getting to the point that I was ROOTING for them (and annoyed when other members of the squad that she split off with - such as Black Mamba - would bad mouth Steve. a case of Marvel employing an excellent writer, with some great art
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Dec 21, 2021 10:56:15 GMT -5
Having been up most of the night... 4. Spider Jerusalem & Yelena Rossini (Transmetropolitan) This is certainly the most toxic relationship on my list. Yelena started out as one of Spider's "filthy assistants." Spider treats her awfully (as he does everyone), but it's clear that he eventually recognizes her potential as a writer and journalist. And, for Spider, that gives her worth. A drunken tumble gave rise to aggressive denial on the part of Yelena, though she ultimately had to admit that it happened. And as she grew in to her role as a journalist she also grew in to her role as a care-giver for Spider. Just a wild ride of a relationship.
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Post by codystarbuck on Dec 21, 2021 11:39:31 GMT -5
#4 Scott & Barda FreeIt's been discussed before; but, I have a slight different angle to this, which I will get to, momentarily. Scott Free, son of Highfather, handed over to Darkseid as part of The Pact. To broker a peace between New Genesis and Apokolips, Darkseid and Highfather traded their sons, as hostages. This is an actual medieval (and earlier) practice, which shows the depth of Kirby's creations, when you look beyond the costuming and superhero trappings. Orion became the ward of Highfather, who helped tame his wild nature and focus it into something more positive. Scott got a hellish childhood, where he was dumped in Granny Goodness' orphanage, to be trained as an aero-trooper. However, embedded in Scott's DNA was a longing for freedom. Granny called him Scott Free to mock his imprisonment; but, Scott embraced the name and made it reality, as, with Himon's help, he escaped from Apokolips and came to Earth. This touched off a return to open hostilities between Apokolips and New Gensis, just as Darkseid had planned. However, Scott was a conscientious objector to the war, feeling there was a better way for both worlds. Barda was another resident of Granny's orphanage. She knew no other life than her training and the hellish conditions. She was honed into a powerful warrior and was given command of the Female Furies, Darkseid's elite soldiers. They were Darkseid's SS and a name feared on Apokolips. When Scott disappeared, they were tasked with locating him and bringing him back. However, there was a wrinkle; Barda was attracted to Scoot and she soon fell hard for him. Scott proved that you could defy Darkseid and Granny and be free. The very act of defiance was freedom from their control, even if the body was imprisoned. Again and again, Scott defied confinement and imprisonment. Through his actions, Barda's world was changed; and, she loved him for that gift. Barda abandoned her post to be with Scott and stood by him at every step. She, in turn, led the Furies away from Apokolips, furthering the rebellion against Darkseid. Eventually, Scott and Barda were married, in a ceremony officiated by Highfather. Darkseid turned up at the wedding, but even his presence could not stop true love. From that point on, Scott and Barda were lifepartners, forever linked, until the end of their time. They were our favorite couple of the justice League, playfully bickering and teasing, while befuddling the bad guys. They tried suburban living, with comical results. They were adventuresome spirits and settling was not in their nature, but love was always there to support their endeavors. I mentioned a different angle to Scott & Barda. Scott Free and Barda are actually stand-ins, for a real couple. Jack & Roz Kirby. Jack & Roz met in their youth, in New York, when they lived in the same neighborhood (same building, I think, at one point). Jack was smitten with Roz from the start and she was taken with him. In an interview, she remarked about his young, fit body and handsome features, plus his confident smile. He invited her to his room to see his etchings, a common euphemism of the day. Except, he actually showed her his drawings! They were married, but Jack was shipped off to war; given an M-1 and a Hershey Bar and told to go kill Hitler (in his words). Jack saw some pretty heavy combat, especially since his artistic abilities got him assigned as a scout, rather than a cushy rear echelon job (they thought he could draw maps of what lay ahead). That meant he and his unit went in first. Jack nearly didn't survive the war. At one point, he spent long hours in a wet and muddy hole, keeping out of sight of the Germans, during fighting. He developed severe trench foot and came close to losing part of his foot. he was eventually medevaced and spent time in hospital, recovering. Roz had to wait at home for letters from Jack, like most wives, girlfriends and family. Finally, Jack came home to her and never left again. They raised a family together, while Jack created comics to provide for them. He also suffered heavily from PTSD, suffering horrible nightmares of the war, coupled with those of being out of work and unable to feed his family. Roz helped him through the nightmares and was his staunch defender as those in power exploited and abused his talents. Jack's daughter suffered from severe asthma and Jack pushed for a steady staff job, at Marvel, and pay or benefits to help with her treatment. Jack also wanted some professional security, especially in light of how great his contribution was to Marvel's success, let alone its survival, in the early 60s. He was rebuffed by Martin Goodman and turned to DC. The Kirby's headed west, to California, for a dryer climate to aid his daughter's health. The Kirby's spent the rest of their lives in California, with Jack leaving DC to go back to Marvel, to less than respectful treatment. Jack had enough and left comics (more or less) for animation. By the 80s, a new regime at DC offered him the respect he long deserved and he returned to dabble a bit; but also gain some financial remuneration for his work. Jack now had provisions for his family, beyond his savings and insurance. He became an elder statesman of comics, attending shows to receive the many fans who came to pay tribute to the master. Always by his side was Roz, making sure everyone got their chance to say hello to Jack and fending off those who tried to make money off of him. In 1994, Jack Kirby went to get the morning paper and never got a chance to read it. He died of a heart attack, in his home. After over 50 years together, Roz was alone. Roz continued to attend the shows, to represent Jack and fans continued to pay tribute to the man, and his biggest fan, of all. Marvel finally stepped up and provided a small pension for Roz; and, in Mark Evanier's words, Roz lived long enough to get every sent she could out of them, for all that they didn't pay Jack his due. Later, his family secured a bigger legacy that should have been Jack's, when he was alive. Roz and Jack were Barda and Scott. They had a playful, bickering banter, with Roz often yelling "Kirby!" at Jack. She kept him out of trouble, drove him around (Jack was dangerous behind the wheel, probably more than he was with his M-1), feeding the many visitors who disturbed their home to meet the legend, making him eat once in a while and comforting him when the nightmares came. Jack worked miracles on paper and created or co-created an entire universe (several, actually) that has thrilled readers for 50+ years, including a new generation, at the cinema. So, whenever you delight at the adventures of Scott & Barda, picture Jack & Roz in the middle of it, and you won't be wrong.
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Post by EdoBosnar on Dec 21, 2021 13:55:06 GMT -5
4. Ka-Zar and ShannaThey've appeared before, as I figured they would; I started reading this revived Ka-Zar series with issue #3, and I was immediately hooked. I loved the way writer Bruce Jones tweaked Ka-Zar's personality, so that he became a sort of wise-a** (rather than a Tarzan clone) and I absolutely loved the relationship with Shanna. Like an earlier entry in my list, Misty Knight & Danny Rand, they're a power couple with very similar skill sets and competencies and, more importantly, they're just so good together. They were a fun and likeable couple who were put through the ringer, as the series was almost non-stop action - so that they only rarely had little quiet moments like this one: Usually, though, they were always on the run, dealing with some sort of crisis, so even when they got married it was done in a pause between battles. Naturally, their relationship wasn't idyllic. Both experienced romantic detours with others during the course of the series, but they always came back to each other, always better for the experience and even more in love.
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Post by Mister Spaceman on Dec 21, 2021 15:32:04 GMT -5
#4. Zack Overkill and Zoe Zeppelin ( Incognito and Incognito: Bad Influence) When we meet former science villain Zack Overkill, he is, in the words of writer Ed Brubaker, “a bad guy, a real villain, who’s … put into a position [where he] starts doing decent things.” Pressed by external forces to fight for good, Zack initially agrees to do so simply because he is so bored with his life in hiding. Over the course of these two series, we see Zack’s uncertain movement toward morality become more assured with the help of science hero Zoe Zeppelin. They become lovers and although Zoe insists they are not a romantic couple, their connection compels Zack to admit to his own humanity. As with many post-Marvel superheroes, our protagonist is strongly shaped by an existential identity crisis. Even as he contends with a variety of science villains (and the stories are replete with bloody action), Zack’s most fraught conflict comes from within. Consequently, Zoe’s influence on him is ultimately determined by Zack himself. His gradual transformation into an empathetic human being depends upon his willingness to believe in the good that Zoe sees in him. If one of the presiding lessons of the genre is that with great power comes great responsibility, Zack and Zoe’s relationship confirms that the greatest power of all is that of love.
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Post by Prince Hal on Dec 22, 2021 0:09:12 GMT -5
4. Superman and Lyla LerrolDon’t want to prolong the torture of Slam Bradley, but even after reconsidering this choice in order to spare my long-distance pal, I have to include the doomed romance of Superman and the misty-eyed Lyla Lerrol, the Marilyn Monroe of Krypton, who were madly in love for just one brief, but timeless issue of Superman many years ago. This one came out a couple of years before I started reading comic books and I think I first read it courtesy a coverless copy I came across for a quarter or so in an old bookstore when I was in high school or college. no matter, I was still smitten by the story, which went beyond the usual melodrama and hit the heights of tragedy. As in so many of these dream/hoax/imaginary stories produced by the Weisinger factory, the usual tired tropes show up: improbable coincidence, excruciating irony, predictable foreshadowing, pathos by the pound, and a plot that sweeps along quickly enough to keep us from asking too many questions. Just as they do in every Greek tragedy. No, it ain't "Oedipus" or "Antigone," but Jerry Siegel tossed in the same ingredients as Sophocles did, mixed them together and gave us a genuine classic. Superman may be the most difficult type of super-hero to write for all the obvious reasons, thus the many memorable variations on the usual that stick out in our - well, not Slam's - memories. The treat here is that we see a non-powered Superman as a stranger in a relatively strange land. He gets to explore a fantasy that for most people would be humdrum life: living life as the person you are are underneath the disguise you must wear very day; getting to hang with your parents as an adult; finting a good job (he winds up at a missile base as Jor-El's assistant); making friends whom you never have to suspect of using you because of how powerful and famous you are. And -- best of all, you can fall in mad, crazy love at first sight, knowing that you can pursue that love because you're not burdened by the guilt and risk and self-denial that comes with that "With great power..." admonition issued by from an older authority figure that is meant as an ideal but rapidly becomes a curse.
How freeing Kal-El's trip back home and his love for the golden girl of Krypton are! For the first time in his life of service to the whole damn universe, he doesn't have to worry about saving the world and solving everyone else's problems. In his Kryptonian take on "Our Town," Siegel shows us a Superman who revels more in the ordinary the more the sense of foreboding increases with each rumble beneath Krypton's surface and each desperate day of research and investigation go by on this celestial Titanic.
But Superman can no more change Fate than Oedipus could and once again, no matter how much he tries to remain with his loved ones, he is doomed to be the only survivor of Krypton, a Fate which now Kal might consider worse than death.
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Post by foxley on Dec 22, 2021 0:18:32 GMT -5
4. Superman and Lyla Lerrol Are they sneaking some symbolism past the Comics Code Authority with those spurting jets of flame as Superman and Lyla embrace? Or am I reading too much into it? (Alfred Hitchcock once said that the only symbolism in his films was the train racing into the tunnel at the end of North by Northwest.)
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Post by Prince Hal on Dec 22, 2021 0:24:39 GMT -5
Are they sneaking some symbolism past the Comics Code Authority with those spurting jets of flame as Superman and Lyla embrace? Or am I reading too much into it? (Alfred Hitchcock once said that the only symbolism in his films was the train racing into the tunnel at the end of North by Northwest.) Sometimes a spurting jet of flame is only a spurting jet of flame.
(This issue is one of the all-time best favorite Wayne Boring art jobs.)
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Post by EdoBosnar on Dec 22, 2021 4:59:56 GMT -5
So this is the second (or third?) time the Superman and Lyla romance has appeared here, and given how well-loved and remembered it seems to be (to the point of being incorporated into that excellent Alan Moore story, as Kurt pointed out), I kind of regret that I've never actually read it. And I'm surprised it was never reprinted in one of the digests of the late '70s/early '80s - which otherwise contained a wealth of classic DC Silver Age stories, esp. Superman.
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Crimebuster
CCF Podcast Guru
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Post by Crimebuster on Dec 22, 2021 19:03:30 GMT -5
4. Nick Fury and Pam HawleyThe early issues of Nick Fury are great. They show Nick as the toughest, roughest, meaning, grubbiest soldier in the war, a born scrapper with no refinement, just raw killing power. And then he meets the well heeled British nurse Lady Pam Hawley. Nick does his best to change, to clean up his act, to be worthy of her. And she sees that he is. They are a perfectly mis-matched pair in the classic sense, beauty refining the beast. The tragic end of their romance is just as classic, one of the high points of the Marvel Age. Nick gets a ring and is going to propose. But when he returns from a mission and sets out to find her so he can pop the question, instead he discovers that she has been randomly killed by a bomb in an air raid. It's a gut punch for him, and for the reader, and an all-time classic.
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Post by coke & comics on Dec 23, 2021 3:38:59 GMT -5
4. Nick Fury and Pam HawleyThe early issues of Nick Fury are great. They show Nick as the toughest, roughest, meaning, grubbiest soldier in the war, a born scrapper with no refinement, just raw killing power. And then he meets the well heeled British nurse Lady Pam Hawley. Nick does his best to change, to clean up his act, to be worthy of her. And she sees that he is. They are a perfectly mis-matched pair in the classic sense, beauty refining the beast. The tragic end of their romance is just as classic, one of the high points of the Marvel Age. Nick gets a ring and is going to propose. But when he returns from a mission and sets out to find her so he can pop the question, instead he discovers that she has been randomly killed by a bomb in an air raid. It's a gut punch for him, and for the reader, and an all-time classic. I just covered that issue in my Marvel Universe reading: cokeandcomics.com/sgt-fury-18/They were strongly considered for my list.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Dec 23, 2021 14:34:01 GMT -5
Random thoughts on Day Nine before I go to jail. Shang-Chi and Leiko Wu - Again, it's been soooooo long since I've read Master of Kung Fu. The Human Torch (Johnny Storm) and Lyja - I guess this was a marginal way of getting rid of the abomination created by Byrne. Better if they'd just said "that was a stupid idea, just ignore it." I've never read a single book with the latter character. I'm more than fine with that. Wandavision - Is this the first we're seeing of them. I liked them in the 70s and 80s. I've no idea what's happened since. Susan "Omaha" Jensen and Charles "Chuck" Tabey, Jr. - I've never read Omaha the Cat Dancer. Jim Corrigan and Gwen Sterling - This was a pretty great choice and one I likely should have thought of. Likely wouldn't have made my list, but still great. Mr. Freeze and Nora - I only know of this from Batman Animated, which would not make it eligible for me. Kate Kane and Maggie Sawyer - After I had stopped reading superhero funnybooks. Jennifer Walters (She-Hulk) & Wyatt Wingfoot - I vaguely know about this, but I've never read She-Hulk and it's been eons since I've read Byrne's FF. Wiccan and Hulkling - I got nothin'. Zack Overkill and Zoe Zeppelin - Gahhh! I really need to re-read Incognito. Superman and Lyla Lerrol - Nick Fury and Pam Hawley - I'm pretty well versed in Silver and Bronze Age Marvel. I've never read a single issue of Sgt. Fury. Not a one. Maybe some day.
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Post by berkley2 on Dec 24, 2021 22:58:41 GMT -5
4. Doctor Strange and Clea.
Another pair that moved on and off my list until finally ending up quite a bit higher than I had originally thought.
What is the opposite of recency bias? Nostalgia, I suppose, but that's a little vague. I'm thinking more of a deep impression that informs your thoughts and feelings about certain things for years afterwards, maybe even the rest of your life. The first Doctor Strange comics I read fall into that category. They were #171-173 of the 1960s series that picked up where Strange Tales left off, written by Roy Thomas, with artwork by Tom Palmer and Dan Adkins (171) then Gene Colan and Palmer (172, 173).
The first instalment of this 3-issue story took the form of a quest in which Doctor Strange has to enter one of those alien dimensions in search of the angelically beautiful Clea who is lost, trapped, or imprisoned somewhere in that unknown and dangerous realm. It's a story that's been told in one form or another since before recorded history began and this might have been if not my first encounter with it, the first to make such a deep and lasting impression.
So that's basically why Clea and Strange are on my list and why they moved up higher and higher the more I thought about it: their story, or rather this early phase of it, is one that we've seen time and time again, in everything from ancient Greek myth to Arthurian legend to ERB's planetary romances (and perhaps the last named is the one it's most directly related to). I think it's a narrative-type that is so firmly embedded into our subconscious that when you come across it in a form you happen to find specially appealing, it'z going to leave its mark.
What was especially appealing about this one? I think the visual aspect of the strange dimensions - rendered here by Palmer, Adkins, Colan, but of course derived from Ditko's genius - and of the protagonists themslves (counting Clea along with Strange, also Ditko designs of course), the eerie, unsettling atmosphere. There wss an impressive gloominess to it, in spite of the often colourful settings and costumes.
Anyway, I could go on and on, but you get the idea. The Romantic quest to rescue the beautiful alien princess has never been done better, in my book, and I dont think it's only that I read this at such a young age, though that's part of it. The other, more important part is that this particular vefsion of that age-old story struck a chord with me in a way only a handful ofother things have done.
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Post by coke & comics on Dec 25, 2021 8:34:49 GMT -5
Nick Fury and Pam Hawley - I'm pretty well versed in Silver and Bronze Age Marvel. I've never read a single issue of Sgt. Fury. Not a one. Maybe some day. At the time it was coming out, I thought it was the single best Lee/Kirby book.
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Post by Farrar on Dec 29, 2021 15:58:45 GMT -5
#4 "Jim White" and Sally Selwyn Superman #165 "The Sweetheart Superman Forgot!" (1963) When the topic was announced I immediately thought of this story and knew it would be high on my list of favorite comic book romances. I first read this story a few years ago as part of the "Superman in the Sixties" trade collection. This trade contains a lot of unforgettable stories including Superman dying of Virus X, the tragic Lyla Lerrol romance that Cei-U and Prince Hal had on their lists...and the Sally Selwyn story. A bonafide tearjerker by Jerry Siegel, who also wrote the Lyla story. No one did these heart-wrenching types of stories better than Siegel! Thanks to Red K Superman temporarily loses not only his powers but also his memory. He adopts the identity of "Jim White" (thanks to dim memories of Jimmy Olsen and Perry White) and enters into a romance with blonde beauty Sally Selwyn. Sally appreciates Jim's courage, resourcefulness, and kindness. They fall in love, but there's a problem: a would-be suitor of Sally's is jealous of Jim and repeatedly sabotages Jim until Jim is (seemingly) drowned. Jim is rescued (by Lori Lemaris) and when the Red K's effects wear off, Superman has no memory of Sally or what's gone on. It's back to the Daily Planet and Clark/Superman muses on what it would be like to be loved for himself and not for his superpowers. A couple years after I read this, I came upon a sequel to this story in Superman #169. The second Selwyn story attempts to wrap things up and contains too many elements (a Clark Kent lookalike; Superman remembering Sally and giving her up for the same reason he won't marry Lois or Lana). It's all too neatly wrapped up and IMO it's unsatisfying--and unnecessary--as a follow up. I prefer to remember this story from #165 as a standalone. The ending of "The Sweetheart Superman Forgot!" Superman #165
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