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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2022 10:33:31 GMT -5
Thanks to DC Infinite, I’ve been able to catch up on Justice League Europe stories (I think I only got 2 issues or so back in the day). I do like the 1987 Justice League comic, particularly the humour. It seems JLE is going for the same approach.
And I’m not sure it’s working for me. The stories are solid - and it’s nice to see Power Girl get some spotlight - but the humour seems a tad forced, almost as if Giffen/DeMatteis are trying too hard to replicate the humour-driven success of the JL comic. I hate to criticise them, as I think Giffen/DeMatteis (and Kevin Maguire) are awesome, but JLE isn’t quite working for me on a humour level.
Is it the “facsimile thing”, where someone tries to replicate their earlier success? I can’t praise Giffen/DeMatteis enough. The JL humour works for, especially interactions between Mister Miracle and Blue Beetle, or Guy Gardner and everyone else, but the JLE humour seems just a tad contrived. Just a tad.
There’s enough to enjoy, though, whether it be the JLE adapting to life in France, the threats from super-villainy, the aforementioned spotlight on Power Girl, the slight dissension between members, Captain Atom having to adapt to leadership, etc. That’s certainly working for me. It’s just a shame the humour isn’t.
Any thoughts?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2022 11:10:43 GMT -5
It wasn't trying to recapture the success, it was trying to expand it. JLE exists because it was a spin-off of JLI, and it wouldn't exist as a book at all if it weren't for the success of the humor based approach to the League as a whole that Giffen and DeMatteis took. That said, it didn't work as well, but I think that is largely because the cast they used weren't as well suited for the approach. The core of the humor in JL revolved around the chemistry Giffen/DeMatteis created between Beetle, Booster, Guy Gardner, Fire and Ice with Martian Manhunter and at times Batman playing straight man to the jokes. Different characters require a different chemistry, and the pieces they had to use in JLE were never quite as suited for the style as the ones in the first book. The thing is, JLE wouldn't have worked as a straight super-hero book at that time either. The consumer expectation for the League at that point was humorous adventure with an emphasis on humor, and it was wildly successful sales-wise, hence the spin-off book using the same formula. But while the formula and the creators may have been the same, the ingredients were different and wound up not working as well. It still had its moments, but it never reached the levels the main book did without the same ingredients that book had to work with.
-M
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 7, 2022 20:31:28 GMT -5
I thought the early issues were decent, but not as good as JLI. However, I liked Bart Sears art and the action stuff was a bit of a step up, particularly when they introduced the villains that came from Blue Jay, Wandjina and Silver Sorceress' world/dimension (who were all homages to Marvel villains). Sears had a nice dynamic and relatively unique style. He had his problems, as his women tended to be top heavy and had harsh features (Power Girl looked downright "butch").
A lot of the humor in JLA was carried by the artists facility with facial expressions and body language; guys like Maguire, Ty Templeton and Adam Hughes. Sears was not a humor guy, which hurt the timing of the jokes. I do think JLE petered out before JLI/JLA, even before Giffen & DeMatteis left.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2022 5:35:53 GMT -5
Whatever my view on the humour attempts, I am enjoying the stories immensely. It’s nice to see characters of lesser renown given the spotlight.
The issue I really enjoyed saw the JLE attend French lessons - which some villains had (innocently) attended too. I guess even supervillains need to be multilingual.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 8, 2022 10:31:26 GMT -5
Whatever my view on the humour attempts, I am enjoying the stories immensely. It’s nice to see characters of lesser renown given the spotlight. The issue I really enjoyed saw the JLE attend French lessons - which some villains had (innocently) attended too. I guess even supervillains need to be multilingual. Well, yeah; otherwise, when they tell them to hand over the money, they just shrug and say " je ne parlais pas anglais!" Then, the gendarmes turn up and interrogate their lookout.... |
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Post by mikelmidnight on Jun 8, 2022 11:31:07 GMT -5
Whatever my view on the humour attempts, I am enjoying the stories immensely. It’s nice to see characters of lesser renown given the spotlight. The issue I really enjoyed saw the JLE attend French lessons - which some villains had (innocently) attended too. I guess even supervillains need to be multilingual.
The sheer Americanness of the cast irked me so much I could never get into it (and it's not as if the JLA wasn't short of characters who weren't, strictly speaking, 100% American).
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2022 11:55:12 GMT -5
Whatever my view on the humour attempts, I am enjoying the stories immensely. It’s nice to see characters of lesser renown given the spotlight. The issue I really enjoyed saw the JLE attend French lessons - which some villains had (innocently) attended too. I guess even supervillains need to be multilingual.
The sheer Americanness of the cast irked me so much I could never get into it (and it's not as if the JLA wasn't short of characters who weren't, strictly speaking, 100% American).
You’ll have me going off on a rant about how few WWF European Championship holders were actually European… |
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,701
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Post by shaxper on Jun 8, 2022 12:14:23 GMT -5
I've only gotten up to the very start of JLE in my Justice League Reviews, but I can already speculate with some level of confidence that a big factor here is the departure of Kevin McGuire, whose visuals did so much to emphasize and exaggerate Giffen and DeMatteis' humor, just as JLE was launching. McGuire's leaving is a large part of why I haven't been inspired to return to my reviews, actually. |
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Post by MDG on Jun 9, 2022 8:18:27 GMT -5
I've only gotten up to the very start of JLE in my Justice League Reviews, but I can already speculate with some level of confidence that a big factor here is the departure of Kevin McGuire, whose visuals did so much to emphasize and exaggerate Giffen and DeMatteis' humor, just as JLE was launching. McGuire's leaving is a large part of why I haven't been inspired to return to my reviews, actually. Yeah--while the humor was welcome (even unexpected) in the early days, it started to feel forced around JLE times.
And as i've said before, Sears is a good artist, but even characters who weren't Captain Atom often looked like they were made from polished chrome.
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Post by Cei-U! on Jun 9, 2022 9:30:06 GMT -5
I hate the Giffen-DeMatteis League with a white-hot passion so I'm probably the wrong guy to ask.
Cei-U!
Bwa-ha-hell no!
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 9, 2022 20:37:04 GMT -5
I hate the Giffen-DeMatteis League with a white-hot passion so I'm probably the wrong guy to ask. Cei-U! Bwa-ha-hell no! I loved it. To paraphrase Stone Cold Steve Austin, "Gimme a Bwa-Ha-HELL YEAH!" And that's the bottom line, because Bone Old said so! J'onn 3:16! |
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 9, 2022 20:40:46 GMT -5
Seriously, I enjoyed JLI up through the whole Kooie-Kooie thing, then it starts going south and plummets when the boys leave. It had a nice mix of adventure and sitcom, with great character interplay and great timing and not just with Maguire. Templeton had the chops for the humor and so did Adam Hughes (though not the speed for a monthly book, which wasn't Maguire's forte, either).
I came back for both reunion minis and enjoyed them far more than the Morrison JLA.
"Moving Day," (JLI #*) is still one of the funniest comics stories I ever read.
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Post by commond on Jun 9, 2022 21:15:28 GMT -5
I enjoyed JLI right up until the end, though it was kind of rough when they’d have Kevin Maguire or Adam Hughes covers and someone else on the interiors. I liked Templeton’s run, but Hughes was the second great penciller on the series and nearly as good as Maguire. I remember being really excited as a kid when he came back for that one guest issue. I would have loved to have seen Steve Rude on the book.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 9, 2022 21:18:29 GMT -5
I enjoyed it overall.. Guy was especially great. I didn't love all of it... the whole Beetle getting fat thing was kinda dumb, and I never likely Oberon, but more often than not it made me smile, and a couple bits (Like the Major Glorry arc) were quite good.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 10, 2022 10:05:56 GMT -5
I enjoyed JLI right up until the end, though it was kind of rough when they’d have Kevin Maguire or Adam Hughes covers and someone else on the interiors. I liked Templeton’s run, but Hughes was the second great penciller on the series and nearly as good as Maguire. I remember being really excited as a kid when he came back for that one guest issue. I would have loved to have seen Steve Rude on the book. Rude would have been great' but, he was struggling with putting out his own book. A JL Quarterly issue or an annual would have been nice, though. |
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