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Post by Icctrombone on Dec 17, 2022 10:05:23 GMT -5
It was intention to include this also. I still might, but in my opinion this run with Conway, Colan and Newton was the best Batman run ever. Sorry O’Neil and Adams. Damn straight, though I'd argue Moench is a continuation of that run and makes it even better. Just finished re-reading it with Amber, and it still holds up. Thanks. I forgot to mention Moench. That run was the only time I collected both Batman books.
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Post by Prince Hal on Dec 17, 2022 11:11:47 GMT -5
foxley, the Force of July was a bit after my time, so thanks for making me aware of it in your excellent post. Another reason to like Mike W. Barr's work. Also, I'm sure it was meant as a reaction to Reaganism and pseudo-patriotism, especially since it came out in 1984. (Not that there's ever a lack of pseudo-patriotism around here.) Also love that the head honcho's name is a tribute to the inventor of double-speak, George Orwell, née Eric Blair.
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Post by MWGallaher on Dec 17, 2022 11:40:23 GMT -5
8. The Mud PackPreston Payne was the villain who drew me fully back into DETECTIVE COMICS when Marshall Rogers and Len Wein created the third villain to bear the title of Clayface in 1978. The previous versions hadn't shown up much in either new or reprint form in my 8 years of comics reading, so I don't know how much I knew about them when Alan Grant and Norm Breyfogle brought all of them, along with a new "Lady Clayface", together under the inspired group name of "the Mud Pack". And hey, they got their own logo on the issues of SECRET ORIGINS and DETECTIVE COMICS where they appeared, and I've already established what a level of prestige I always attached to that accomplishment! Clayface is a great name for a supervillain, evocative and sinister and unnerving, but vague enough that it could mean a lot of things, as it in fact did with the variety of evildoers here--a psychotic version of Lon Chaney, a shapeshifting lug, a tragic melting monstrosity with a deadly touch, all wonderful riffs based on a simple phrase. Is this the only supervillain team where everybody has the same code name? I think it is!
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,860
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Post by shaxper on Dec 17, 2022 13:37:05 GMT -5
8. The Mud PackPreston Payne was the villain who drew me fully back into DETECTIVE COMICS when Marshall Rogers and Len Wein created the third villain to bear the title of Clayface in 1978. The previous versions hadn't shown up much in either new or reprint form in my 8 years of comics reading, so I don't know how much I knew about them when Alan Grant and Norm Breyfogle brought all of them, along with a new "Lady Clayface", together under the inspired group name of "the Mud Pack". And hey, they got their own logo on the issues of SECRET ORIGINS and DETECTIVE COMICS where they appeared, and I've already established what a level of prestige I always attached to that accomplishment! The Mud Pack was on my list for much the same reasons (especially Preston Payne), and I didn't realize until now that, somehow in all the constant reshuffling, they fell off of it. I'm thankful to see them still being represented. great choice and write-up!
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Post by Cei-U! on Dec 17, 2022 13:44:13 GMT -5
Are the Lady Liberators the villains ? Yeah, sorry, Ben, but I'm not sure The Lady Liberators count as an actual super-villain team. If you can offer a good argument for doing so, though, I'm all ears.
And incidentally, I consider that the single worst issue of Avengers prior to the "everybody wears a jacket over their costume" era. Yechh.
Cei-U! I summon the rare Roy Thomas misfire!
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Post by Icctrombone on Dec 17, 2022 16:01:14 GMT -5
Are the Lady Liberators the villains ? Yeah, sorry, Ben, but I'm not sure The Lady Liberators count as an actual super-villain team. If you can offer a good argument for doing so, though, I'm all ears.
And incidentally, I consider that the single worst issue of Avengers prior to the "everybody wears a jacket over their costume" era. Yechh.
Cei-U! I summon the rare Roy Thomas misfire!
We might have an argument here …
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2022 16:44:12 GMT -5
A little late because I was playing D&D all afternoon. On the fifth day of Christmas, the Ghost of Christmas Villainy brought to me... Jake Fury's LMD Zodiac Another greatest hits from the nostalgia train here. I got Defenders 350 in one of the polybagged 3 packs of Marvels as a stocking stuffer one Christmas and in those wondrous Giffen channeling Kirby pages I discovered to my delight a group of villains based on the Zodiac (I had briefly seen Libra from the other Zodiac in a copy of Avengers #124 I inherited from a neighbor, but this was my first full exposure to a Marvel Zodiac team). I absolutely adored the Giffen designs for these villains and mixture of incompetence and deadliness embodied by these sad sack LMDs charmed 8 year old me. I recently revisited the 4 issue orc of Defenders (47-50) where Moon Knight was working with the team and reread this Zodiac saga and it still held some of its peculiar charm, so I knew I wanted these guys to appear on my list when Kurt announced the topic. The kind of straddle the line between pure nostalgia and one I still like today, but I think their longevity in my esteem stems form the nostalgia side of the equation, so they inhabit the lower half of my list. -M
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Post by thwhtguardian on Dec 17, 2022 17:08:15 GMT -5
On the 5th Day I give you... Aliens and Predators...oh my!mea culpa Cei-U!Seven Deadly Enemies of ManWhiz Comics #2 1940, Fawcett Comics While Billy Batson wasn't the first hero to battle a team of villains, he may none the less lay a certain claim on the title as C.C. Beck and Bill Parker drew clear inspiration from the seven deadly sins which are certainly some of man's earliest fictional foe teams. Originally lacking Lust as it was thought to be too adult for a funny book this team of Pride, Envy, Greed, Hatred, Laziness, Selfishness, and Injustice were a near omnipresent fear for the Big Red Cheese...as they resided as statues in his very own base of operations: The Rock of Eternity! Captured in eons past they stood as statues warning of the evil that lurked in the shadows of Earth and when they would escape(either as a group or individually) they'd give the good captain no end of trouble!
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Dec 17, 2022 17:24:17 GMT -5
Are the Lady Liberators the villains ? Yeah, sorry, Ben, but I'm not sure The Lady Liberators count as an actual super-villain team. If you can offer a good argument for doing so, though, I'm all ears. Let's judge the tree by its fruit: Dixit Medusa : "I will aid you against the Avengers... if the Inhumans shall be the next to fall!" It seems that the fall of the Avengers and that of the Inhumans is in the cards. A bit later, after the Masters of evil are defeated by the Avengers and the Liberators, Medusa attacks Pietro for no reason. The game is afoot! The Wasp then says : "Come on, Widow! Let's take the Panther together!" (this is followed by a simultaneous wasp sting and widow blast). Walkyrie then blasts the (male) Avengers with her power lance, much to the delight of the rest of her team. The Avengers are then bound and the Liberators abduct a scientist, all on Walkyrie's say-so. The scientist is supposed to help operate an untested and dangerous space-time gizmo, a nefarious trope we've often seen. Only then does Wanda come to her senses and breaks the influence she had been operating under. Granted, this was a one-shot deal and the Enchantress used a spell to convince her partners to join her cause... but the Lady Liberators were not acting like heroes when they attacked their erstwhile colleagues or abducted Professor Sciencedude; they were acting like regular bad guys (or bad ladies). I rest my case, your honour, and beg court's indulgence.
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Post by Icctrombone on Dec 17, 2022 17:51:05 GMT -5
Mind control doesn’t make you a villain in the comic world. What say you , Kurt ?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2022 18:01:57 GMT -5
Mind control doesn’t make you a villain in the comic world. What say you , Kurt ? Validus from the Fatal Five is technically under the mental control of Tharok. This becomes a slippery slope if mind-controlled villains don't qualify, same thing with "amnesia" manipulated like Medusa in the Frightful Four. It would even mess up another choice I have for tomorrow.
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Post by Cei-U! on Dec 17, 2022 18:04:11 GMT -5
Mind control doesn’t make you a villain in the comic world. What say you , Kurt ? Yeah, that was pretty much my thinking. Sorry, Ben, I'm ruling thumbs down on the Lady Liberators.
Cei-U! Hates being the bad guy!
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Post by Cei-U! on Dec 17, 2022 18:06:34 GMT -5
Mind control doesn’t make you a villain in the comic world. What say you , Kurt ? Validus from the Fatal Five is technically under the mental control of Tharok. This becomes a slippery slope if mind-controlled villains don't qualify, same thing with "amnesia" manipulated like Medusa in the Frightful Four. It would even mess up another choice I have for tomorrow. But the Liberators aren't mind-controlled villains, they're mind-controlled heroes. That's a huge difference.
Cei-U! I draw the line!
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Post by foxley on Dec 17, 2022 18:08:29 GMT -5
foxley , the Force of July was a bit after my time, so thanks for making me aware of it in your excellent post. Another reason to like Mike W. Barr's work. Also, I'm sure it was meant as a reaction to Reaganism and pseudo-patriotism, especially since it came out in 1984. (Not that there's ever a lack of pseudo-patriotism around here.) Also love that the head honcho's name is a tribute to the inventor of double-speak, George Orwell, née Eric Blair. The George Orwell connection is actually plot relevant, because as a boy Blairman read 1984, and instead of seeing a warning for the dangers of state control, saw how ubiquitous surveillance could be used to ensure America's security if it was done by the 'patriots' for the 'right' reasons.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2022 18:22:59 GMT -5
Validus from the Fatal Five is technically under the mental control of Tharok. This becomes a slippery slope if mind-controlled villains don't qualify, same thing with "amnesia" manipulated like Medusa in the Frightful Four. It would even mess up another choice I have for tomorrow. But the Liberators aren't mind-controlled villains, they're mind-controlled heroes. That's a huge difference.
Cei-U! I draw the line!
Validus is not a "hero" by nature, but nor is he a villain. Lady Blackhawk became Queen Killer Shark when a villain brainwashed her. I would argue she was a villain during that whole era. Edit: Malice, Dark Phoenix... Not trying to be difficult with this, again just trying to sound out. I've always thought that a mind-controlled hero is a tragic turn of events, but once they are engaged in villainous activity, the label is appropriate. Hal Jordan was portrayed as a villain for years, and then they sort of retrofitted "it wasn't his fault", but I think again the Parallax years stand as villainy. Maybe it's easier to say "if they change their name" their villainous identity is clearer, versus same name/looking hero but acting completely out of character. But that feels a bit more superficial to me. I don't know, sorry Ben if I'm encroaching, and Cei-U, the call is of course yours!
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