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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2023 12:57:37 GMT -5
Not to say however one looks at it, having a secret identity equals one thing: lying. Constantly lying. Ilya Salkind did an audio commentary for the first Superman movie, and he did mention that in a sense, specifically the scene on the balcony where Superman says to Lois, “I never lie.”
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Post by kirby101 on Mar 25, 2023 13:03:20 GMT -5
There's one little other detail about secret identities (at least as they're portrayed in superhero comics) that would make me argue against them. Superman spent half his waking time and more trying to protect his secret identity, even calling Batman for help (and distracting him from his crime-fighter activities). Furthermore, always to protect his identity, he did not hesitate to harm others and casually resort to brainwashing. Now, in the name of what principle does protecting my secret identity justify actions that if done by others would be considered criminal? And that still take time away from what I have a secret identity for, which is to protect others! Not to say however one looks at it, having a secret identity equals one thing: lying. Constantly lying. Ergo, the most ethical thing to do, if I truly consider myself a hero, would be NOT to have a secret identity. So how would you deal with not having one meant your friends and family were in constant danger and you probably couldn't be in any work environment because of how disruptive it would be.
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Post by kirby101 on Mar 25, 2023 13:04:14 GMT -5
Also is a secret identity any different than an undercover law enforcement officer?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2023 13:07:10 GMT -5
Also is a secret identity any different than an undercover law enforcement officer? I would say no. As I stated a few posts ago, recently an attempt was made on the life of a detective chief inspector in Northern Ireland. He was shot, but not killed. Now, you can hardly give every uniformed cop and detective in Northern Ireland a mask, but it does make you think about anonymity. That applies even more to an undercover law enforcement officer.
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Post by kirby101 on Mar 25, 2023 13:09:46 GMT -5
I believe the federal officers who go after Cartels in Mexico are masked.
Or maybe that's just the movies.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2023 13:20:19 GMT -5
There's one little other detail about secret identities (at least as they're portrayed in superhero comics) that would make me argue against them. Superman spent half his waking time and more trying to protect his secret identity, even calling Batman for help (and distracting him from his crime-fighter activities). Furthermore, always to protect his identity, he did not hesitate to harm others and casually resort to brainwashing. Now, in the name of what principle does protecting my secret identity justify actions that if done by others would be considered criminal? And that still take time away from what I have a secret identity for, which is to protect others! Not to say however one looks at it, having a secret identity equals one thing: lying. Constantly lying. Ergo, the most ethical thing to do, if I truly consider myself a hero, would be NOT to have a secret identity. So how would you deal with not having one meant your friends and family were in constant danger and you probably couldn't be in any work environment because of how disruptive it would be. Would you let your family in on it and keep it secret form the rest of the world? Keeping it from your family violates the trust on which the relationship is based and you'll probably quickly find you will have to be scheduling visitation rights and figuring out child support and alimony payments if you keep it from your spouse and they find out. As I said earlier, it's a violation of trust on par with infidelity because you are leading a second life without your spouse. How will you explain missing visitation times with your children because you are off being a vigilante to your kids or the court when they call you on it? Being a super-hero and having a family is essentially incompatible unless your family is part of your support network. And if your family is choosing to be a part of the support network. they need to do so understanding the risk involved. Secret identity or not, you are putting family at risk because that secret identity is not sacrosanct. Is it better to put them at risk and not let them know so they can't take appropriate precautions? If that moral or good behavior or just a from of selfishness and rationalization? I mean if they don't know and a villain finds out, they won't be in danger because they don't know right? -M
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Post by zaku on Mar 25, 2023 13:26:20 GMT -5
Also is a secret identity any different than an undercover law enforcement officer? Well, yes. A lot. (if we intend "secret identity" as in the comics).
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Post by kirby101 on Mar 25, 2023 13:27:21 GMT -5
Yes to that, mrp. Of course I think becoming a crime fighting super hero is stupid and a waste of time and power.
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Post by zaku on Mar 25, 2023 13:28:40 GMT -5
So how would you deal with not having one meant your friends and family were in constant danger and you probably couldn't be in any work environment because of how disruptive it would be. Would you let your family in on it and keep it secret form the rest of the world? Keeping it from your family violates the trust on which the relationship is based and you'll probably quickly find you will have to be scheduling visitation rights and figuring out child support and alimony payments if you keep it from your spouse and they find out. As I said earlier, it's a violation of trust on par with infidelity because you are leading a second life without your spouse. How will you explain missing visitation times with your children because you are off being a vigilante to your kids or the court when they call you on it? Being a super-hero and having a family is essentially incompatible unless your family is part of your support network. And if your family is choosing to be a part of the support network. they need to do so understanding the risk involved. Secret identity or not, you are putting family at risk because that secret identity is not sacrosanct. Is it better to put them at risk and not let them know so they can't take appropriate precautions? If that moral or good behavior or just a from of selfishness and rationalization? I mean if they don't know and a villain finds out, they won't be in danger because they don't know right? -M I remember the Pre-Crisis Superman: "I can't reveal my secret identity to Lois Lane to protect her!!" Lois Lane: She gets kidnapped every odd day because she's Superman's girlfriend. WHAT IS THE LOGIC MAN? WHAT IS!?!?
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Post by zaku on Mar 25, 2023 13:34:22 GMT -5
Incidentally, why the hell would I fight crime in a flamboyant costume while yelling my nom de guerre: "NOW YOU WILL FACE THE WRATH OF [insert your superhero name here]"?
Why shouldn't I be discreet about the whole thing?
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Post by kirby101 on Mar 25, 2023 13:37:35 GMT -5
Why fight crime at all? Name a power and I can give you a better use.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2023 13:38:26 GMT -5
Incidentally, why the hell would I fight crime in a flamboyant costume while yelling my nom de guerre: "NOW YOU WILL FACE THE WRATH OF [insert your superhero name here]"? Why shouldn't I be discreet about the whole thing? Everyone’s mileage will vary, but I feel you have to play the game a little. I like the colourful costumes, names and the absurdity (not meant in a pejorative way) of superhero comics. It’s up to you what you like and what you choose to read, and I don’t mean to sound critical, but, with the greatest respect, if you can’t embrace that, I would respectfully wonder why you would ever even pick up a DC or Marvel superhero comic.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2023 13:45:34 GMT -5
Eh, I find fighting crime to be like trying to deal with the symptoms or putting a band aid on a knife wound without removing the knife. If I truly wanted to make the world better, or to achieve something resembling "justice" I would want to find a way to start addressing or dealing with the root causes, or fighting crime would be a never-ending battle with no victory conditions. No matter what you did, it wouldn't make a difference in stopping crime or fixing things, it's triage at best. you can save some lives, but you won't do anything towards putting less lives o at risk on a regular basis. Of course, determining what the root causes are is a can of worms best not opened on these forums, so I will leave it at that.
But a costumed hero fighting crime is essentially Cervantes' Don Quixote written large in the modern world.
-M
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Post by kirby101 on Mar 25, 2023 14:02:01 GMT -5
The Ff didn't fight crime, Thor, when the book found it's footing, didn't fight crime, Dr Strange didn't fight crime. Spidey did, but that's not what his book was about. Most comics left the crime fighting motif long ago.
Since the Silver Age they became the myths of battling gods.
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Post by zaku on Mar 25, 2023 14:02:05 GMT -5
Ehi! Do you remember this scene?
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