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Post by Cei-U! on Jan 25, 2024 14:37:15 GMT -5
The one character I keep seeing that shows Stan was capable of creating great characters on his own is The Kingpin. Here is what Romita said about the characters origins. Do I see Stan having a hand in creating the Kingpin, absolutely. But I also see the bulk of creating the character done by Romita. Then Stan doing what he did best, riffing off the plotting work the artist did to make the comic fun. But I don't see "next month, The Kingpin of Crime" (do we remember Ditko's Crime Boss?) showing the creative fountain that he has claimed to be. It's a matter of who you want to believe. The man who claims he thought up some of the greatest characters in comics for about 5 years, creating nothing of worth before or after. Or the man who was a creative powerhouse for his entire 50 years in comics. This whole article is very telling to me. I don't believe for a second that the only thing Stan Lee told Romita for the ENTIRE plot was " Next Month, I want a character called the Kingpin of crime" . And neither should you. I believe it. Stan himself said that with artists he trusted all he'd sometimes say is "Let's use Doctor Doom next issue" and turn them loose. Kirby, Romita, and Colan all remembered him doing this.
Cei-U! I summon the straight skinny!
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Post by Hoosier X on Jan 25, 2024 15:02:16 GMT -5
I don't believe for a second that the only thing Stan Lee told Romita for the ENTIRE plot was " Next Month, I want a character called the Kingpin of crime" . And neither should you. I believe it. Stan himself said that with artists he trusted all he'd sometimes say is "Let's use Doctor Doom next issue" and turn them loose. Kirby, Romita, and Colan all remembered him doing this.
Cei-U! I summon the straight skinny!
I believe it too. The giveaway to me is all those scenes in various 1960s Marvel comics where the dialogue is really dumb, indicating that Lee barely understood the story some of the time. |
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Post by kirby101 on Jan 25, 2024 16:16:49 GMT -5
I don't believe for a second that the only thing Stan Lee told Romita for the ENTIRE plot was " Next Month, I want a character called the Kingpin of crime" . And neither should you. So Romita is also lying? He said as much about the Rhino. He said Stan had more involvement with the idea of the Shocker. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 25, 2024 17:21:22 GMT -5
I don't believe for a second that the only thing Stan Lee told Romita for the ENTIRE plot was " Next Month, I want a character called the Kingpin of crime" . And neither should you. So Romita is also lying? He said as much about the Rhino. He said Stan had more involvement with the idea of the Shocker. Let me get this straight, you think that Lee gave romita no plot or story at all? He just told him Kingpin, see you next month? I don't think that makes sense. It shouldn't make sense to you either. |
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Post by Hoosier X on Jan 25, 2024 17:48:13 GMT -5
So Romita is also lying? He said as much about the Rhino. He said Stan had more involvement with the idea of the Shocker. Let me get this straight, you think that Lee gave romita no plot or story at all? He just told him Kingpin, see you next month? I don't think that makes sense. It shouldn't make sense to you either. If Stan Lee can come up with a plot, I don’t see why it’s the least bit difficult to imagine Jack Kirby or John Romita or Steve Ditko coming up with a plot on their own. I don’t think artists are idiots who can’t come up with a plot from a one-word or one-sentence suggestion. |
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Post by Ozymandias on Jan 25, 2024 18:06:14 GMT -5
I don't believe for a second that the only thing Stan Lee told Romita for the ENTIRE plot was " Next Month, I want a character called the Kingpin of crime" . And neither should you. So Romita is also lying? He said as much about the Rhino. He said Stan had more involvement with the idea of the Shocker. That actually explains a lot! Out of those three characters, pick a loser  |
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Post by kirby101 on Jan 25, 2024 18:15:35 GMT -5
So Romita is also lying? He said as much about the Rhino. He said Stan had more involvement with the idea of the Shocker. Let me get this straight, you think that Lee gave romita no plot or story at all? He just told him Kingpin, see you next month? I don't think that makes sense. It shouldn't make sense to you either. That is what multiple artists have said he sometimes did. Not all the time, often there was a brief discussion, sometimes a longer one. Almost never anything written or a complete story. But Romita, Buscema, Colan, Heck...all have said the one sentence idea was something Stan did. Kirby, Ditko and Wood mostly did their own stories are had Stan just suggest something. |
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Post by tarkintino on Jan 25, 2024 18:43:31 GMT -5
]I don't believe for a second that the only thing Stan Lee told Romita for the ENTIRE plot was " Next Month, I want a character called the Kingpin of crime" . And neither should you. I do not, either--not to the extent suggested in this quote: "Romita recalled that this character’s creation began with a note from Lee which stated: “Next month, I want a character called ‘The Kingpin of Crime.’”Emphasis on began. The creative process does not end there, the statement merely pointed out an origin point. I've read just about everything about Romita and heard the great man in person discuss the creative process of his heydays, and from collective information, he never suggested Lee had little to do with the creation of characters or storylines in the way implied in a misreading of a quote. Lee's relationship with Romita always seemed to be one of perfect synergy in achieving the evolutionary goals of character and book, which stands as evidence of the unprecedented success they brought to Spider-Man, making him Marvel's unquestioned flagship character and marketing jewel. Lee clearly had a way of shaping character and plot, which was evident during the Ditko period, but grew exponentially when teamed with Romita, who did co-create and contribute to many of Spider-Man's landmark storylines, but again, from the Romita sources i've read, the road to those great stories was not reduced to the equivalent of one person scribbling something on the back of a business card. |
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Post by commond on Jan 25, 2024 19:01:31 GMT -5
I doubt that Lee said next month I want the Kingpin of Crime and Romita went off and plot and drew an entire 22 page comic. That wouldn't make any sense if Stan didn't like something about the work. Romita would have been forced to spend extra time redrawing the pages. I assume instead that Romita drew up some sketches of what the Kingpin might look like and once Stan was happy with those he went to work on the story. Romita goes into great detail about his experiences working with Stan in his Comic Book Journal interview -- linkRomita thought highly of Stan as both an editor and a writer but also admits that he was a good soldier and never tried to rock the boat. He wasn't confident in his ability to work in the Marvel method style in the beginning but eventually it helped unlock his storytelling ability. As he grew in confidence, he began creating more of the plots on his own. As others have attested to, the depth of Stan's involvement in the plotting varied from issue to issue. It sounds totally believable that Stan would call a guy and say I want a crime lord in the next issue, and away the artist would go, but there were more layers to it than just that. Romita talks about Marie Severin helping him with the Rhino design. These people were incredibly talented artists but there weren't magicians. |
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Post by Hoosier X on Jan 27, 2024 11:44:01 GMT -5
What’s your favorite scene in a comic book edited by Stan Lee that makes no sense?
Everybody has one.
And there are so many.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 27, 2024 12:41:10 GMT -5
What’s your favorite scene in a comic book edited by Stan Lee that makes no sense? Everybody has one. And there are so many. A quartet of individuals sneak past security, manage to climb aboard a space rocket and succeed in launching it all on their own. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 27, 2024 13:03:44 GMT -5
What’s your favorite scene in a comic book edited by Stan Lee that makes no sense? Everybody has one. And there are so many. A quartet of individuals sneak past security, manage to climb aboard a space rocket and succeed in launching it all on their own. It turns out that the security guards were actually mannequins. Budget cuts, you know... |
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Post by driver1980 on Jan 27, 2024 13:07:00 GMT -5
Well, Slam_Bradley mentioned in one of his reviews about a space shuttle launch occurring in or near New York City, where Spidey saved John Jameson. Makes me smile to think of Marvel Comics’ NASA having facilities in an urban area. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 29, 2024 7:24:34 GMT -5
What’s your favorite scene in a comic book edited by Stan Lee that makes no sense? Everybody has one. And there are so many. Here's one from Fantastic Four Annual #2, in which Stan (as the scripter) completely misunderstands what Jack Drew. Doctor Doom manages to get the FF to fight one another. They all erupt in a room at the same time, and it's obvious that Sue attacks Reed with her force field while Johnny and Ben come to blows. Here I present the scene without any dialogue :  However, Stan mistakes Reed for Johnny and his dialogue has Sue attacking Johnny first, dousing her brother's flame for one panel, right before he manages to flame on again in time for the next panel in which he attacks Ben!!!  This error is all the more glaring when one looks at the next page, where Reed is still fighting Sue's force field, pretty much in the same position as on the previous page:
Where's the editor??? Oh... right...
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Post by commond on Jan 29, 2024 8:36:28 GMT -5
Isn't Kirby jumping the line with that third panel with the reverse shot of Johnny vs. Ben?
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