|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2014 9:37:23 GMT -5
I've just been reading the intros thread on the Everything Else board, and I picked up on something Dan said there that I'm sure I've seen him mention before (you know how he tends to rant about stuff  ) about Doug Moench and Fleetwood Mac in his* MOKF run, and it just hit me that I had no idea what he was talking about. I read all of those comics as they came out, and never even noticed any FM references. Now, in fairness, like all right-minded people I've never regarded FM as anything other than muzak for lifts, so maybe I've got an excuse, but: a) what were those references - character names, song lyrics, ...,? b) what else is there where you have suddenly realised, perhaps many years later, that there was an allusion or other reference in something you've read that either you've only just got, or that you've found out that everyone else knew about and you never noticed at the time? (*Doug's not Dan's. Dan's would have had more Eagles) |
|
|
|
Post by Roquefort Raider on Nov 19, 2014 10:07:03 GMT -5
I've just been reading the intros thread on the Everything Else board, and I picked up on something Dan said there that I'm sure I've seen him mention before (you know how he tends to rant about stuff ) about Doug Moench and Fleetwood Mac in his* MOKF run, and it just hit me that I had no idea what he was talking about. I read all of those comics as they came out, and never even noticed any FM references. Now, in fairness, like all right-minded people I've never regarded FM as anything other than muzak for lifts, so maybe I've got an excuse, but: a) what were those references - character names, song lyrics, ...,? b) what else is there where you have suddenly realised, perhaps many years later, that there was an allusion or other reference in something you've read that either you've only just got, or that you've found out that everyone else knew about and you never noticed at the time? (*Doug's not Dan's. Dan's would have had more Eagles) a) Well, Shang-Chi was playing the LP "rumors" from Fleetwood Mac, and Leiko made a comment about it. It was more of a plug than a reference! Chi had an interest in western music, and once quoted Mick Jagger to Tarr and Reston (prompting them to say "his father sure wouldn't approve", forgetting for a moment who Chi's father was). b) I didn't know that Rufus J. Hackstabber was Groucho Marx when I first saw him, as I had never seen a Marx brother movie. The references their films went right over my head. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2014 10:08:03 GMT -5
I had this happen with Alpha Flight.
I read Byrne's run, but didn't catch HALF the things like what Dupersuper mentioned today about nobody in Marrina's town thinking she was a mutant, just thought she was inbred and deformed like a lot from that area. I also did not catch Mac threatening to expose Northstar for being a homosexual in the flashback meeting they had when Northstar reluctantly joined Alpha Flight. That was brought to my attention as well.
But mainly "a" and "b" occur more in everyday life for me than just comics.
And, unfortunately, for me, they're often cringe-worthy moments once I realize that I either stupidly replied or that it just flew over my head and I never got it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Paradox on Nov 19, 2014 11:34:29 GMT -5
Avengers #91. The Avengers are fighting the Sentry and Rick Jones is there, too. He says something to the effect of "I feel like the original wheel #5 up here chucking rocks at this Sentry!" I was ten and not only did I not get the "fifth wheel" reference, I actually thought Wheel #5 was his new hero name, and that there had been another one previously! I took his statement of impotence and made it into one of joy! I even drew him in a costume (I drew pages and pages of costume sheets of all the heroes at that age) much like his "Bucky" costume with a big wheel (which actually looked more like a gear) on the chest!  A MAJOR "D'oh!" moment when I reread it a few years later and got the reference.  |
|
|
|
Post by badwolf on Nov 20, 2014 13:49:40 GMT -5
Bill Mantlo used to use a lot of song titles or lines as titles for his stories. I remember the Hulk issue that introduced the Texas Rangers was called "You Can't Always Get What You Want But If You Try Sometime You Just Might Find You Get What You Need!" (because Rick Jones had been trying to get the Avengers). The Rocket Raccoon issue a little later also had a long title that referenced the Beatles song that inspired him. I didn't know of either song at the time they first came out.
|
|
|
|
Post by thebeastofyuccaflats on Nov 20, 2014 14:40:26 GMT -5
I missed what was a cameo by Doc Savage & Co. at the end of Superman's 1997 Annual (this would have been the "Pulp Heroes" theme).
|
|
|
|
Post by fanboystranger on Nov 20, 2014 15:01:16 GMT -5
Bill Mantlo used to use a lot of song titles or lines as titles for his stories. I remember the Hulk issue that introduced the Texas Rangers was called "You Can't Always Get What You Want But If You Try Sometime You Just Might Find You Get What You Need!" (because Rick Jones had been trying to get the Avengers). The Rocket Raccoon issue a little later also had a long title that referenced the Beatles song that inspired him. I didn't know of either song at the time they first came out. Grant Morrison used to do this a lot, too. Mostly songs from The Jam or The Smiths. Occasionally, he'd build an entire issue around a lyric. You really see that in Doom Patrol. |
|
|
|
Post by thebeastofyuccaflats on Nov 20, 2014 15:17:06 GMT -5
Oh, and Superman's final words at the end of JLA/Hitman are paraphrased from The Pogues' "The Limerick Rake." Don't think I got that 'til I read something at Scans_Daily or MightyGodKing (I forget).
|
|
|
|
Post by gothos on Nov 20, 2014 17:19:28 GMT -5
There's a 1960s PLASTIC MAN comic by Arnold Drake featuring a Russian villain, Ivan Byturnozov.
For years I didn't get the joke because I mentally pronounced the last name, "By-turn-o-zov."
One guess how it was supposed to be pronounced.
|
|
|
|
Post by badwolf on Nov 20, 2014 20:39:53 GMT -5
Bill Mantlo used to use a lot of song titles or lines as titles for his stories. I remember the Hulk issue that introduced the Texas Rangers was called "You Can't Always Get What You Want But If You Try Sometime You Just Might Find You Get What You Need!" (because Rick Jones had been trying to get the Avengers). The Rocket Raccoon issue a little later also had a long title that referenced the Beatles song that inspired him. I didn't know of either song at the time they first came out. Grant Morrison used to do this a lot, too. Mostly songs from The Jam or The Smiths. Occasionally, he'd build an entire issue around a lyric. You really see that in Doom Patrol. Yah, Danny the Street was a regular Morrissey. Fortunately, by then I knew their entire discography. |
|
|
|
Post by tolworthy on Nov 21, 2014 7:08:01 GMT -5
"He ain't heavy, he's my brother" from the end of the first Judge Rico story, where Dredd refuses help in carrying his clone. I thought at the time that it was a wonderful, touching sentiment, a powerful last line. It was many years before I realised it was also a song. Dredd was full of such references, e.g. the names of buildings: but I had a vague idea that those were real people. My first exposure to the names "Sonny Bono" and "Ricardo Montalban" were on the sides of city blocks. I'm always missing stuff in the FF, mainly because the references are often to shows that didn't air in Britain. A random example that comes to mind is when Ben says "hey kids, what time is it?" which apparently comes from something called Howdy Doody. This missing of references is probably why I have a deep seated suspicion that everything in the FF is based on something. Hence my web site.  |
|
|
|
Post by Paradox on Nov 21, 2014 8:14:26 GMT -5
There's a 1960s PLASTIC MAN comic by Arnold Drake featuring a Russian villain, Ivan Byturnozov. For years I didn't get the joke because I mentally pronounced the last name, "By-turn-o-zov." One guess how it was supposed to be pronounced.  For the record, I wouldn't have gotten it, either. |
|
|
|
Post by Paradox on Nov 21, 2014 8:17:18 GMT -5
"He ain't heavy, he's my brother" from the end of the first Judge Rico story, where Dredd refuses help in carrying his clone. I thought at the time that it was a wonderful, touching sentiment, a powerful last line. It was many years before I realised it was also a song. The phrase is actually much earlier than the song. I remember it as being the Boys' Town motto, and Wiki tells me it was from even before that. Wiki |
|
|
|
Post by tolworthy on Nov 21, 2014 9:42:11 GMT -5
There's a 1960s PLASTIC MAN comic by Arnold Drake featuring a Russian villain, Ivan Byturnozov. For years I didn't get the joke because I mentally pronounced the last name, "By-turn-o-zov." One guess how it was supposed to be pronounced. Reminds me of the Beano's "Babyface Finlayson, the cutest bandit in the west". As a child I read it as "cut -est", like he cuts things. I assumed it was some American phrase that I didn't understand. |
|
|
|
Post by fanboystranger on Nov 21, 2014 11:55:12 GMT -5
"He ain't heavy, he's my brother" from the end of the first Judge Rico story, where Dredd refuses help in carrying his clone. I thought at the time that it was a wonderful, touching sentiment, a powerful last line. It was many years before I realised it was also a song. Dredd was full of such references, e.g. the names of buildings: but I had a vague idea that those were real people. My first exposure to the names "Sonny Bono" and "Ricardo Montalban" were on the sides of city blocks. I'm always missing stuff in the FF, mainly because the references are often to shows that didn't air in Britain. A random example that comes to mind is when Ben says "hey kids, what time is it?" which apparently comes from something called Howdy Doody. This missing of references is probably why I have a deep seated suspicion that everything in the FF is based on something. Hence my web site. Oh, yeah... JD is chock full of references. Block names ("Rowdy Yates"), villain names, story names, etc. Strontium Dog and Nikolai Dante as well. |
|
) about Doug Moench and Fleetwood Mac in his* MOKF run, and it just hit me that I had no idea what he was talking about. I read all of those comics as they came out, and never even noticed any FM references. Now, in fairness, like all right-minded people I've never regarded FM as anything other than muzak for lifts, so maybe I've got an excuse, but:
