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Post by kirby101 on Jun 29, 2024 18:50:24 GMT -5
My guess is that Hades is a name people think is Hell. Pluto doesn't let there be confusion.
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Post by Hoosier X on Jun 29, 2024 19:02:21 GMT -5
I would guess that they used whatever sounded best between the differing names of the Roman and the Greek gods. It’s unlikely that there were ever any plans to use the Roman gods as a separate pantheon within the Marvel Universe. I don’t have the vaguest idea how you would go about doing that. So it didn’t really matter which names they used if they’re only going with one pantheon for the two mythologies.
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Post by Calidore on Jun 29, 2024 20:06:58 GMT -5
My guess is that Hades is a name people think is Hell. Pluto doesn't let there be confusion. That makes sense. I would guess that they used whatever sounded best between the differing names of the Roman and the Greek gods. It’s unlikely that there were ever any plans to use the Roman gods as a separate pantheon within the Marvel Universe. I don’t have the vaguest idea how you would go about doing that. So it didn’t really matter which names they used if they’re only going with one pantheon for the two mythologies. That does, too. Just seemed odd in this mix of Norse and Greek pantheons to have a Roman god pop up out of nowhere. I bet Roy Thomas would have had fun making that work, though. |
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Post by Hoosier X on Jun 29, 2024 21:21:18 GMT -5
My guess is that Hades is a name people think is Hell. Pluto doesn't let there be confusion. That makes sense. I would guess that they used whatever sounded best between the differing names of the Roman and the Greek gods. It’s unlikely that there were ever any plans to use the Roman gods as a separate pantheon within the Marvel Universe. I don’t have the vaguest idea how you would go about doing that. So it didn’t really matter which names they used if they’re only going with one pantheon for the two mythologies. That does, too. Just seemed odd in this mix of Norse and Greek pantheons to have a Roman god pop up out of nowhere. I bet Roy Thomas would have had fun making that work, though. He would have been the only one! Lol |
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Post by berkley on Jun 29, 2024 22:03:42 GMT -5
I believe Pluto is actually another Greek name - or rather the Latin version of the Greek Plouton (according to wiki, where I just looked to check).
The Romans themselves saw their gods and those of the Greeks as one Pantheon with different names in their different languages. Our idea of national pantheons I think derives more from the Judaeo-Christian tradition, which tended to see their god as the one true god and the gods of other cultures as different and weaker gods, or as evil demons in disguise, or simply as false idols, etc, etc.
I remember as a teenager being struck by this when Caesar in his writings about the Gallic wars, in describing the Germanic tribes he encountered, said "They honour Mercury above all other gods. They call him Odin." or something like that.
But yeah, I think Stan Lee or Jack Kirby would have just taken whatever they liked the sound of, most likely. For a long time in English the Latin names were much better known as most educated people learned Latin in school, while Greek was much less common. Some of that feeling may have lingered on into the earlier decades of the 20th century, depending on the background of the individual. I imagine that's why James Joyce titled his famous novel Ulysses rather than Odysseus. Even today Hercules is much more common than Heracles.
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Post by Hoosier X on Jun 30, 2024 10:39:38 GMT -5
I did not know that Pluto was another Greek name for Hades. I’ve just been reading about that on the Intertubez.
I’ve read an awful lot about the Greek myths over the years, but not recently. Years ago, I read volume one of The Greek Myths by Robert Graves, and I’ve been meaning to read volume two for at least 20 years.
Maybe I read about Pluto a long time ago and just don’t remember it.
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Post by berkley on Jul 1, 2024 1:14:08 GMT -5
I did not know that Pluto was another Greek name for Hades. I’ve just been reading about that on the Intertubez. I’ve read an awful lot about the Greek myths over the years, but not recently. Years ago, I read volume one of The Greek Myths by Robert Graves, and I’ve been meaning to read volume two for at least 20 years. Maybe I read about Pluto a long time ago and just don’t remember it.
Much the same experience here. For a long time I assumed that Pluto was the Roman counterpart of Hades, as Mars was of Ares, Juno of Hera, etc.
Graves's Greek Myths was an important book for me: like many young readers mesmerised by Tolkien, after reading his books I spent a few years of floundering around trying to find something along the same lines. I tried various Tolkien-derived fantasy books, some good some bad, but none of them really having anywhere near the same impact. Eventually I gravitated towards the mythology that had inspired him, which soon led me to Graves and his Greek Myths, and then Lattimore's English versions of the Iliad and the Odyssey.
I think you probably did read about Pluto in Graves, since if I remember he put the stories of the Olympian gods near the beginning of the first volume. I don't have my copy nearby to check if he talks about the names Pluto and Hades but I would imagine he did, perhaps in the notes. The annotations and his controversial interpretation of those stories were almost as fascinating as the stories themselves.
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Post by Batflunkie on Jul 1, 2024 7:43:09 GMT -5
I did not know that Pluto was another Greek name for Hades. I’ve just been reading about that on the Intertubez. I’ve read an awful lot about the Greek myths over the years, but not recently. Years ago, I read volume one of The Greek Myths by Robert Graves, and I’ve been meaning to read volume two for at least 20 years. Maybe I read about Pluto a long time ago and just don’t remember it. It's kind of one of those things where you wonder why they used the name of the planet instead of the actual Greek name. Guessing it was a cold day in hell? |
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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 8, 2024 8:48:54 GMT -5
THOR #129June 1966 "The Verdict of Zeus!"  Comments:Is this Jack Kirby driving Thor around in his cab ?  Thor tells Jane that he is willing to give up his Immortality for her. That's a heavy price, didn't he ever have a girlfriend before her ? The Rainbow bridge is a very imaginative idea. Was it created by Jack just for the book, or did it exist in some other legend or book ?  This is a very interesting comment that Ares makes, he claims that Hercules' strength should be rightfully his. What does that mean, did Zeus have to choose between the two to gift the power of strength ?  The first appearance of Tana Nile shows her having an influence on Thor. Is this a mind power like Star Fox ? I'm guessing it will be revealed in future issues.  Another appearance of Limbo. Man, this place is used quite often as a throw away concept and inconsistently.  The last page has a great entrance by Thor.  Tales of Asgard
Thor and the warriors three are sent on a mission to take the Warlocks eye from the people of Muspelheim. We see a formidable army led by Harokin. Comments : The 5 pager is highlighted by a nice splash page.  Ads and stuff-  The ad for the Black Panther in the FF book has the cover obscured. I'm liable to believe it was so some of the southern states wouldn't ban the book. This was the early 60's and society was not as educated yet.  |
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Post by Cei-U! on Jul 8, 2024 14:33:28 GMT -5
The Bifrost a.k.a. the Rainbow Bridge is very much a part of genuine Norse mythology and has been depicted in many works of art over the centuries, but never as vividly as when Kirby was at the drawing board.
Cei-U!
I summon the bona fides!
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Roquefort Raider
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jul 8, 2024 14:46:42 GMT -5
The Bifrost a.k.a. the Rainbow Bridge is very much a part of genuine Norse mythology and has been depicted in many works of art over the centuries, but never as vividly as when Kirby was at the drawing board. I don't disagree on Kirby's Bifrost, but the colours here are all wrong!!! (Ares in red looks pretty formidable, though). Also, weren't comics just grand in those days? See how matter-of-factly they have a space alien be the new roommate of the god of thunder's girlfriend! I mean, what are the odds?  |
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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 10, 2024 5:37:05 GMT -5
The Mighty Thor # 130 Writer Stan Lee Artist: Jack Kirby Artist Inks: Vince CollettaPlot summary: Thor arrives to fight for Hercules freedom and is transported to the Netherworld by Pluto. Essentially we see a battle spectacular where the Thunder God goes through a gauntlet of warriors and tech. Meanwhile we see what is happening to Jane Foster in New York. Tana Nile accidentally reveals that she's from a far distant place and mind controls Jane into leaving. It's implied that Thor will have to search the far reaches of space to find her. Um, I just see her walking out the door. There's no space craft or teleporter that I see. To be continued in the next issue. We return to the underworld where Thor is laying waste to each challenger and also wrecking the crap out of Plutos home. Pluto ends the combat by releasing Hercules from the contract in order for this home to be left in one piece and two immortals leave. Comments:Nice issue where Thor is shown to be fearless and quite formidable. I like the way underworld warrior announces himself right before they get their butts handed to them.    Kirby is in his element depicting far out locales  I find it interesting and a bit humorous that Pluto has acquired a fondness for the underworld. The two walking off at the end reminds me of   This might be the beginning of a beautiful friendship. Tales of Asgard Thor and the three invade Muspelheim and the Thunder god dispatches Harokin with one punch. He still has to procure the Warlocks eye and notices that he has a resemblance to the fallen leader. The last panel has Thor with brown hair giving orders to the enemy army. CommentsFun battle but his being a look alike for Harokin is very contrived. Reminds me of this:  Ads and stuff 
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jul 10, 2024 7:26:36 GMT -5
"Thou grotesque caricature of a warrior" is a neat insult!!! Love the Casablanca reference, Icctrombone. It's spot on! |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2024 7:29:29 GMT -5
I did not know that Pluto was another Greek name for Hades. I’ve just been reading about that on the Intertubez. I’ve read an awful lot about the Greek myths over the years, but not recently. Years ago, I read volume one of The Greek Myths by Robert Graves, and I’ve been meaning to read volume two for at least 20 years. Maybe I read about Pluto a long time ago and just don’t remember it.
Much the same experience here. For a long time I assumed that Pluto was the Roman counterpart of Hades, as Mars was of Ares, Juno of Hera, etc.
Graves's Greek Myths was an important book for me: like many young readers mesmerised by Tolkien, after reading his books I spent a few years of floundering around trying to find something along the same lines. I tried various Tolkien-derived fantasy books, some good some bad, but none of them really having anywhere near the same impact. Eventually I gravitated towards the mythology that had inspired him, which soon led me to Graves and his Greek Myths, and then Lattimore's English versions of the Iliad and the Odyssey.
I think you probably did read about Pluto in Graves, since if I remember he put the stories of the Olympian gods near the beginning of the first volume. I don't have my copy nearby to check if he talks about the names Pluto and Hades but I would imagine he did, perhaps in the notes. The annotations and his controversial interpretation of those stories were almost as fascinating as the stories themselves.
Pluton was another aspect and name of the Greek god Hades. Hades itself is actually the Latin spelling, whereas the Greek is "Haides" or "Aides" among other names/spellings, and he was the god of the underworld indeed. Pluton (or "Plouton") was a name given to his "giver of wealth" aspect. Plato indicates in his Cratylus work that people preferred calling him Pluton because Hades was the more dreaded name. And it can get confusing because then there's "Plutus" who is actually a completely different Greek god (a son of Demeter) who is also associated with wealth, and identifies closely with Pluton in that regard. But Pluto is indeed the Latinized form of Pluton, and generally speaking I think it is fair to say the common understanding that Pluto is basically the Roman version of the Greek Hades holds (the Etruscan/Roman god Orcus also having some association with Pluto). |
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Post by kirby101 on Jul 10, 2024 8:56:10 GMT -5
Another great issue in this formidable run. That panel of Thor smashing Cerebus is pure Kirby firepower. Even with Vinnie "the Living Eraser" inking. On a side note, this is why I hate modern recoloring. Look at these two panels from the original printed book. And compare to the recolored reprint above.   In the first, the green is more of an Army drab not a golf course green, giving him a military look. And the toned down purple doesn't make him look like he is going to the Madi Gras. In the second page, again the green on that rocky formation makes it look old, not like a living tree in the recolored. The whole feel changes because they keep making these colors garishly pop. |
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