|
|
Post by Hoosier X on Aug 29, 2024 15:31:15 GMT -5
Yes. It would be very difficult to try to say the Wundagore arc wasn’t wrapped up in a rather perfunctory manner.
|
|
|
|
Post by Yasotay on Aug 30, 2024 2:51:23 GMT -5
Oh boy. Lots of convenient occurrences mar an other wise visually great story. The man Beast creates an army of evil new men in about 5 minutes. That's bit much to swallow. Maybe that's the price to pay for compressed storytelling that wants to wrap up an adventure in 1 issue, but it didn't work for me. Thor knocks out the Beats with 3 punches. It's kind of cool and disappointing at the same time. Thor explains that he has the powers of eternity ( I'll admit that that scene was awesome). It points out a concept that is floated around later in an Avengers issue , that Thor is holding back most of the time. At the end, the Manbeast and his army are sent into space WITH ALL THEIR POWERS INTACT! Maybe the HE should have found a way to strip those advanced powers from the Manbeast. I'm not sure if the MB is this formidable when we next see him. And that is a pet peeve of mines that many villains are seemingly invincible in their first appearance,, only to be easily beaten the next time you see them. The High evolutionary leaves earth in a spaceship that was also the mountain of Wundergore the entire time. That's a bit Silver agey to me. There has been an ongoing discussion about who is actually plotting the stories in this thread, so whoever wrote this plot gets a fail. Nice review. Even if the story isn't great, I always enjoy seeing Thor at his most awesome tuning up powerful villains.
You're referring to Avengers 149 where Thor wipes out Orka and then says he's been with mortals too long? I always liked that because of how Thor had been portrayed so inconsistently, particularly in Avengers (Getting knocked out by Mantis? Really??). It was a good rationale to bring him back up to his status as the mightiest Avenger.
Part of Wundagore still stood apparently because the Avengers went back there on at least a couple of occasions I know of, and always had lots of trouble. You'd think someone would have roped it off as a safety hazard after the High Evolutionary left.
And again, the HE didn't really come off as a true bad guy in this, from what I saw. Is it fair to even label him a villain? Other than maybe that Evolutionary War story you brought up earlier, did he ever truly fight against a hero?
|
|
|
|
Post by Icctrombone on Aug 30, 2024 7:25:51 GMT -5
Oh boy. Lots of convenient occurrences mar an other wise visually great story. The man Beast creates an army of evil new men in about 5 minutes. That's bit much to swallow. Maybe that's the price to pay for compressed storytelling that wants to wrap up an adventure in 1 issue, but it didn't work for me. Thor knocks out the Beats with 3 punches. It's kind of cool and disappointing at the same time. Thor explains that he has the powers of eternity ( I'll admit that that scene was awesome). It points out a concept that is floated around later in an Avengers issue , that Thor is holding back most of the time. At the end, the Manbeast and his army are sent into space WITH ALL THEIR POWERS INTACT! Maybe the HE should have found a way to strip those advanced powers from the Manbeast. I'm not sure if the MB is this formidable when we next see him. And that is a pet peeve of mines that many villains are seemingly invincible in their first appearance,, only to be easily beaten the next time you see them. The High evolutionary leaves earth in a spaceship that was also the mountain of Wundergore the entire time. That's a bit Silver agey to me. There has been an ongoing discussion about who is actually plotting the stories in this thread, so whoever wrote this plot gets a fail. Nice review. Even if the story isn't great, I always enjoy seeing Thor at his most awesome tuning up powerful villains.
You're referring to Avengers 149 where Thor wipes out Orka and then says he's been with mortals too long? I always liked that because of how Thor had been portrayed so inconsistently, particularly in Avengers (Getting knocked out by Mantis? Really??). It was a good rationale to bring him back up to his status as the mightiest Avenger.
Part of Wundagore still stood apparently because the Avengers went back there on at least a couple of occasions I know of, and always had lots of trouble. You'd think someone would have roped it off as a safety hazard after the High Evolutionary left.
And again, the HE didn't really come off as a true bad guy in this, from what I saw. Is it fair to even label him a villain? Other than maybe that Evolutionary War story you brought up earlier, did he ever truly fight against a hero?
This is a real phenomenon seen in sports , where the team will often play down to the level of their opponent. In Avengers #211, Hercules determines that Powerman can take his punch so they fight. It's not really addressed in comics , but how does a hero know how hard to throw a punch in order not to kill someone? As for the Mantis scene, that was Engelhart jobbing the Avengers in order to prop up his Mary sue character.  |
|
|
|
Post by Yasotay on Aug 30, 2024 12:05:05 GMT -5
Nice review. Even if the story isn't great, I always enjoy seeing Thor at his most awesome tuning up powerful villains.
You're referring to Avengers 149 where Thor wipes out Orka and then says he's been with mortals too long? I always liked that because of how Thor had been portrayed so inconsistently, particularly in Avengers (Getting knocked out by Mantis? Really??). It was a good rationale to bring him back up to his status as the mightiest Avenger.
Part of Wundagore still stood apparently because the Avengers went back there on at least a couple of occasions I know of, and always had lots of trouble. You'd think someone would have roped it off as a safety hazard after the High Evolutionary left.
And again, the HE didn't really come off as a true bad guy in this, from what I saw. Is it fair to even label him a villain? Other than maybe that Evolutionary War story you brought up earlier, did he ever truly fight against a hero?
This is a real phenomenon seen in sports , where the team will often play down to the level of their opponent. In Avengers #211, Hercules determines that Powerman can take his punch so they fight. It's not really addressed in comics , but how does a hero know how hard to throw a punch in order not to kill someone? As for the Mantis scene, that was Engelhart jobbing the Avengers in order to prop up his Mary sue character. I can see a character like Thor or Hercules pulling their punch a little against an inferior opponent so as not to kill them. But a lot of times I think it's just lazy writing, either to build up another character like you say with Mantis, or just to extend the story. Realistically, when Thor shows up to help the Avengers (or Superman with the JLA for that matter), the fight should be over unless they're going against a real major leaguer like Thanos.
The other thing you mentioned, about seemingly powerful villains who later end up as basically jobbers is a good point. There was an old thread on here about B list villains and it occurred to me that almost all villains, no matter how powerful they start out as, inevitably have to end up as B listers. If you look at the big menaces from the 60s, and probably from the 70s and 80s now, most of them are now kind of cannon fodder villains except for one or two arch nemesis, like Dr. Doom with the FF. But that's the way it has to be since for years all of them have been portrayed as losing time after time. After a while, they kind of become a joke because you know they always lose. Personally, I'd like to see a villain win occasionally, and I don't mean a brief win before the hero comes back a few issues later and defeats them. Have a villain permanently kill a hero, or take over a country and rule it for years like Doom with Latveria. I think it would up the stakes when that villain next appears.
|
|
|
|
Post by Hoosier X on Sept 1, 2024 17:17:41 GMT -5
The Mighty Thor # 135
 I don't have a whole lot to add to this one. It's a fun read but it turns out a bit sloppy when you think about it. The whole conflict is Thor's fault! He needs to be a bit more patient. He barges in, demanding to see Jane Foster! This is an HR problem! Not an HE problem! So The high Evolutionary is distracted at just the wrong moment and the Man-Beast is born! (On the other hand, if the High Evolutionary is SO SMART, why is his equipment designed in such a way that a highly developed and highly evolutionized wolf that hates everything and wants to kill everyone is a possible outcome! How about some quality control! And maybe train some of these New Men in lab work so that you don't have monitor your experiments every second! Just sayin'!) The High Evolutionary isn't really the villain in this. He's kind of arrogant and full of himself, sure. He didn't mean to create the Man-Beast. He's just careless. The Man-Beast is the villain. I hope the High Evolutionary took good notes and LEARNED HIS LESSON about tampering with the secrets of Marvel Universe Evolutionary Theory! Which brings us to the GET JANE FOSTER recap. After a couple of issues where she makes her own decisions, doesn't get abducted, avoids Asgardian amnesia spells and Rigellian hypnosis, Jane Foster grabs at a great career opportunity at Wungadore ... and sees it all go down in flames because of the accidental creation of the Man-Wolf. Good going, Thor! With a little patience, you could have attempted a less flamboyant and provocative approach to Wundagore and met up with Jane peacefully through peaceful without creating a situation that drove the High Evolutionary and Wundagore away, taking Jane's job with them. Oh well! Jane will have another chance to change careers in the very next issue! As for Tales of Asgard ... Fafnir is so awesome. |
|
|
|
Post by Hoosier X on Sept 2, 2024 21:54:11 GMT -5
Thor #136January 1967 "To Become an Immortal!" Co-written and penciled by Jack Kirby Co-written by Stan Lee Inked by Vince Colletta Lettered by Artie Simek Edited by Stan Lee Well, now that the Wundagore arc is all wrapped up, Thor can take Jane Foster to Asgard where Odin has given permission for Jane to be Thor's girlfriend. There's just one catch ... Jane will be given immortality and the powers of a GODDESS, and she will have to proven worthy of this gift in order to take her place among the gods of Asgard. The god of thunder takes Jane to the rainbow bridge and she's a little JUMPY when she sees a bound captive TROLL being taken to Asgard for interrogation. And then Heimdall greets them and she freaks out a bit. This timidity does not bode well for her coming initiation to godhood. I'm also a little dubious that Jane would be so scared of everything. She's been kidnapped by everybody from the Cobra and Hyde to Loki. She was NOT intimidated by Hercules. She was hypmotized by Tana Nile and then willingly joined the staff at Wundagore without blinking an eye. Well, maybe a bound, drooling TROLL shouting obsecenities and spitting acid is a bit different from all that. Thor takes Jane to meet the All-Father, and he puts on the charm and freets his son's beloved. She is so overwhelmed that she doesn't even compliment Odin on his wonderful hat. Odin doesn't wait for much more than a minute before he turns Jane into a goddess and wraps her in green and white Asgardian goddess raiment! (I think I forgot to mention at the beginning that this is another one that I love! Even though I've read it a few times, I have not read it over and over again like I have with some of these 1960s Thor stories.) And then Jane has to go through some tests. They are TOUGH! And Jane doesn't do so well. She kinda FLIPS OUT, and Thor has to save her. Thor starts arguing with Odin that it was not really a fair test to throw Jane into a rat's nest like that when she was a mortal just minutes ago. Odin says that if she is to be a goddess, then she must have the heart of a goddess. (I get the feeling that Odin KNEW this would happen, but he finally realized that Thor would never relent until he saw it for himself.) Jane interrupts before this little discussion goes any further. SHE DOESN'T WANT TO BE A GODDESS! IT'S TOO HORRIBLE! DON'T THEY REALIZE HOW MAD IT IS? Yeah. That kinda sums it up. MADNESS! I love this exchange! Yeah, it is pretty mad! To be handed the powers of a god? To face the horrors of cosmically powered being and be expected to fight them? How is a mortal to cope with THAT? At least on Wundagore, she was a nurse and a teacher. The circumstances were mad, but she was still herself and using her training in a helpful way that she understood. Odin sends Jane back to Earth and he's even set up a new job for her as a resident nurse in a hospital on the West Coast. Her boss is Dr. Kincaid, a handsome blond man who smokes a pipe! I guess Odin think he was being nice, but I think that it would have been nicer for Jane to choose her own damn job. It's also kind of annoying that Jane once again gets the Asgardian Amnesia Treatment. Meanwhile, Thor is angry but Odin sets him straight with some lightning and some giant, pointy word balloons! And then he sends Thor off to fight that monster that was freed to scare Jane and see if she was worthy. Sif shows up to help him fight off the monster, and together they prevail. They walk off together hand in hand. Commentary: Well, Odin is apparently the BOSS of GET JANE FOSTER! Because he won the last round. Nobody is in his league! Just give her what she thinks she wants! She needs to be goddess to marry Thor. And that's what she got! But it was a bit too much for her and she rejected the offer. So Odin GOT JANE FOSTER and he GOT HER GOOD! She's out of the series, working at a hospital on the West Coast. She'll have a cameo (attending the circus) in a few issues, but then we won't see her for awhile. I think there was a realization that there was just nowhere to go with the relationship between Jane and Thor. And the return of Sif seemed like a good idea. And they took care of Jane Foster in a very good story that also examined the burden of god-like power. Tales of Asgard: "There Shall Come a Miracle!": And then over in Tales of Asgard, Fafnir menaces Thor, Hogun and Fandral in the far-off land of Nastrond while Odin and his nameless associates watch on the giant magic Odintelly. But Thor calls forth the lightning and Fafnir falls into a crevice or something and so the curse is removed from Nastrond! The rain falls on the barren land and Odin tells his nameless associated that soon Nastrond will be a green, fruitful, prosperous land again! Oh, and I forgot to mention that they bust Volstagg out of a cage. Very nice inking on this feature! Colletta seems to have really been able to do a great job when he had time and the inclination.
|
|
|
|
Post by berkley on Sept 2, 2024 23:52:44 GMT -5
I've always felt that getting Jane Foster out of the series was one of the best moves they ever made and should have been done much earlier. I also like the way it was done, reinforcing the point that Asgard isn't just an alien planet with lot of fancy buildings and weird costumes, it's different to earth or the mortal realm in general in a more fundamental way.
|
|
|
|
Post by Roquefort Raider on Sept 3, 2024 5:35:06 GMT -5
Cool review as ever, Hoosier X ! Odin really should have led with that when he first opposed Thor and Jane's fling, I think.
That issue holds a special place in my heart, ever since I bought this French digest in 1978:
It contains the main stories from Thor 136 to 139, one Tale of Asgard and Captain America #112. All for 80 Canadian cents (or 4 French francs, when they were still a thing).
I believe that comic played a large role in my becoming a Kirby fan.
|
|
|
|
Post by Hoosier X on Sept 3, 2024 12:44:29 GMT -5
Cool review as ever, Hoosier X ! Odin really should have led with that when he first opposed Thor and Jane's fling, I think.
That issue holds a special place in my heart, ever since I bought this French digest in 1978:
It contains the main stories from Thor 136 to 139, one Tale of Asgard and Captain America #112. All for 80 Canadian cents (or 4 French francs, when they were still a thing).
I believe that comic played a large role in my becoming a Kirby fan.
Your comment made me think for a minute about the stuff I read very early on that made me a big Kirby fan. One book that really sticks out is Marvel Treasury Edition #11 featuring the Fantastic Four, which I bought brand new at the magazine rack at Ayr-Way. (Anybody else remember Ayr-Way? I think it became Target a few years later.) It reprinted … Fantastic Four #4 (the Silver Age return of Namor) Fantastic Four #24 (still one of my favorite Dr. Doom stories) Fantastic Four #51 (WOW!!) Fantastic Four #94 (Agatha Harkness AND the Frightful Four!) |
|
|
|
Post by Yasotay on Sept 4, 2024 1:59:04 GMT -5
I think Jane died from cancer at one point, a few years back. I guess constant exposure to mystical lightning, evolution-inducing radiation and various cosmic rays isn't good for your long term health.
Also, Odin always seemed to teeter back and forth in his representations between being the wise, noble all-father and a bit of a tool.
|
|
|
|
Post by berkley on Sept 4, 2024 3:28:40 GMT -5
I think Jane died from cancer at one point, a few years back. I guess constant exposure to mystical lightning, evolution-inducing radiation and various cosmic rays isn't good for your long term health. Also, Odin always seemed to teeter back and forth in his representations between being the wise, noble all-father and a bit of a tool.
Given the Jewish background of both Kirby and Lee, I've often wondered if Marvel's Odin was influenced as much by the Jehovah of the Old Testament as by Norse mythology.
|
|
|
|
Post by Batflunkie on Sept 4, 2024 9:18:43 GMT -5
I think Jane died from cancer at one point, a few years back. I guess constant exposure to mystical lightning, evolution-inducing radiation and various cosmic rays isn't good for your long term health. Also, Odin always seemed to teeter back and forth in his representations between being the wise, noble all-father and a bit of a tool. Odin is one of those 60's era Marvel characters that seemed to get upset at the drop of a hat. I know that it was supposed to add to the drama that made the book great, but IDK. You'd think that a centuries old immortal being wouldn't be that easily anger prone, especially when he was trying to teach Thor humility |
|
|
|
Post by Hoosier X on Sept 4, 2024 11:11:04 GMT -5
I think Jane died from cancer at one point, a few years back. I guess constant exposure to mystical lightning, evolution-inducing radiation and various cosmic rays isn't good for your long term health. Also, Odin always seemed to teeter back and forth in his representations between being the wise, noble all-father and a bit of a tool. Odin is one of those 60's era Marvel characters that seemed to get upset at the drop of a hat. I know that it was supposed to add to the drama that made the book great, but IDK. You'd think that a centuries old immortal being wouldn't be that easily anger prone, especially when he was trying to teach Thor humility Comic books are stupid. It’s more of an observation than a criticism. |
|
|
|
Post by Farrar on Sept 4, 2024 15:28:23 GMT -5
Thor #136
January 1967
"To Become an Immortal!"
....
Just give her what she thinks she wants! She needs to be goddess to marry Thor. And that's what she got! But it was a bit too much for her and she rejected the offer. So Odin GOT JANE FOSTER and he GOT HER GOOD!
...
Excellent review. This story--Jane as Icarus--must have been shocking! But it's further proof that back then Marvel didn't shy away from changing the status quo for their series (or at least for some of them). A quite heartbreaking but inevitable turn of events IMO, and a brilliant story. |
|
|
|
Post by berkley on Sept 4, 2024 16:52:04 GMT -5
The one relatively disappointing development for me was the way Sif was written: after a promising beginning that seemed to be setting her up to be a formidable warrior in her own right they never quite followed up with this idea as strongly as one would have hoped. Yes, she was a warrior, but all too often she ended up playing the damsel in distress role, which wasn't as much of an improvement on Jane Foster as it should have been.
|
|
