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Post by Icctrombone on Sept 24, 2024 6:39:48 GMT -5
This book was released in 1967 and it was an era where they weren't ready for the kick ass women that would follow like Red Sonja, Big Barda, and Thundra. And yet Barda was introduced in Mister Miracle #4 (1971 ) by Kirby and kicked a lot of @$$, mostly male. It was a missed opportunity. Sif could have at least knocked out 3 or 4 before being captured.
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Post by Yasotay on Sept 24, 2024 23:46:30 GMT -5
I don't know if Marvel had any kick ass women back in the 60s. Even when one would help out in winning a fight, like the Scarlet Witch, she'd still usually end up captured or fainting or something. But to be fair, there weren't many examples of kick ass women in real life back in the 60s to inspire the comics. There were barely any female boxers, no women in combat positions in the military and not that many female police. I'd say Leiko Wu in Master of Kung Fu was the first kick ass Marvel female who didn't spend a huge amount of time doubling as a damsel in distress.
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Post by berkley on Sept 25, 2024 1:33:09 GMT -5
I don't know if Marvel had any kick ass women back in the 60s. Even when one would help out in winning a fight, like the Scarlet Witch, she'd still usually end up captured or fainting or something. But to be fair, there weren't many examples of kick ass women in real life back in the 60s to inspire the comics. There were barely any female boxers, no women in combat positions in the military and not that many female police. I'd say Leiko Wu in Master of Kung Fu was the first kick ass Marvel female who didn't spend a huge amount of time doubling as a damsel in distress.
Maybe we can add the Black Widow, though I'm a bit vague on that character's chronology and when exactly she transitioned from more of a hands-off schemer type to the combat expert she became known as later on.
I hate to say it but as time went on, I think even Leiko Wu was put into the damsel in distress role a few times. But I think this was indirectly part of a general trend of diminishing the supporting cast i order to show how Shang Chi was progressing as a martial artist. Reston and Tarr also seemed to become less impressive physically as time went on. And Shang Chi and Cat agrees that while Shang Chi likely would have lost their first fight he would have won their second one years later.
This is one of my few real criticisms of MoKF: that in the last years of the series Moench, perhaps unconsciously, sometimes seemed to be trying to make the protagonist more impressive at the expense of the other characters. In her earlier appearances Leiko Wu was pretty much on equal terms with Shang Chi, but in thelater years, not so much. I've always wondered if this was Moench's way of trying to hold on to the original series concept of depicting "the rising and advancing of a spirit". Yes or no, I always think it's a mistake in fiction to try to make one character look stronger by taking other characters down a peg or two.
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Post by Yasotay on Sept 25, 2024 10:56:44 GMT -5
Maybe we can add the Black Widow, though I'm a bit vague on that character's chronology and when exactly she transitioned from more of a hands-off schemer type to the combat expert she became known as later on.
I hate to say it but as time went on, I think even Leiko Wu was put into the damsel in distress role a few times. But I think this was indirectly part of a general trend of diminishing the supporting cast i order to show how Shang Chi was progressing as a martial artist. Reston and Tarr also seemed to become less impressive physically as time went on. And Shang Chi and Cat agrees that while Shang Chi likely would have lost their first fight he would have won their second one years later.
This is one of my few real criticisms of MoKF: that in the last years of the series Moench, perhaps unconsciously, sometimes seemed to be trying to make the protagonist more impressive at the expense of the other characters. In her earlier appearances Leiko Wu was pretty much on equal terms with Shang Chi, but in thelater years, not so much. I've always wondered if this was Moench's way of trying to hold on to the original series concept of depicting "the rising and advancing of a spirit". Yes or no, I always think it's a mistake in fiction to try to make one character look stronger by taking other characters down a peg or two.
I thought of Black Widow but I recall, even when she was in Daredevil in the early 70s, she frequently ended up needing rescuing by DD.
Moench had introduced a precursor to Leiko even before she came along. I recall a Chinese woman who was a kick ass kung fu babe that appeared in one issue. Credit to Moench for being ahead of the curve.
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Post by Hoosier X on Oct 1, 2024 15:18:57 GMT -5
Thor #138
March 1967 "The Flames of Battle!" Co-written and penciled by Jack Kirby Co-written by Stan Lee Inked by Vince Colletta Lettered by Artie Simek Edited by Stan Lee I admit that the epic troll storyline that introduces Ulik could be better. The characterization of Sif is pretty weak. Is it asking too much to expect to see Sif defending herself against the trolls for at least a page? Two or three panels? Apparently, the answer is yes. And unfortunately, she's just a hostage for most of the rest of the arc. Nor does she contrive an escape ... the trolls just let her go when they have secured Thor's hammer. And then there's Orikal. He is some kind of very powerful other-dimensional entity who the trolls have captured somehow, and he must do King Gierrodur's bidding. BECAUSE REASONS! This arc would have been so much better if, instead of Orikal, the trolls had access to some new and powerful device dreamed up by Gierrodur's Troll Science Division. Imagine Ulik being all sulky because the troll scientists are getting and all the glory because of their inventions and he's being sidelined. I consider the great Thor run to be, well, technically Journey into Mystery #97 to Thor #139. I like the world-building in #97 to #113, and then it really gets going about #125. And after #139, it's not so great for a few issues. Some one-shots and then the Enchanters, which is not a great arc. (Somebody should bring back the Enchanters and give them another shot at greatness.) But Thor gets good again pretty quickly with the return of Loki, the introduction of the Wrecker, and then the Mangog story arc. So now, on to the story in #138! Thor goes to New York, looking for Ulik and Sif, and he turns into Don Blake so he can search the five boroughs without being noticed. But he doesn't know that the trolls know that Blake is Thor's secret identity! So the trolls capture him almost immediately and he becomes Thor and gets embroiled in a fight scene with Ulik in an underground cavern below New York City. I guess it's an abandoned subway station? An underground city power plant? Just some urban cave? Whatever it is, Thor and Ulik throw each other and smash walls and stuff for a few pages. Meanwhile in Asgard, Odin's armies face a formidable horde of optimistic, invading trolls. What is their secret? Why are the trolls so highly motivated, almost giddy? Well, the trolls have a secret weapon ... Orikal! Geirrodur has trapped him and so Orikal is helping the trolls. The king has promised Orikal that he will free him if he helps the trolls destroy Asgard with a sea of unending volcanic flame! Getting back to Thor and Ulik's epic battle under the streets of New York ... it's so great! Just CRRASH! and SPOK! and THOOBM! and THOK! and BTROK! as they punch each other around in the cavern. It's easy to pick apart some of the story elements in this arc. But when it's good, it's great! The fight between Thor and Ulik and the troll war against Asgard almost make up for Hostage Sif and the way Orikal is a bit underwhelming. The trolls manage to grab Mjolnir with a magic pink troll gadget that looks like a big coin purse. Then they hop into a magic troll tunnel and head back to Asgard. They leave Sif behind, trapped in a magic transparent troll cage. The cage dissolves of its own accord and thus Thor and Sif are reunited. They just have to figure out how to get to Asgard without Mjolnir! Back in Asgard, a great troll onslaught manages to force its way inside the Golden Gates ... Odin's palace is threatened. And everyone wonders ... WHERE IS THOR? TO BE CONTINUED! TALES OF ASGARD: "The Quest for the Mystic Mountain": Ogur, the One-Eyed Guardian of Wazir's Cave, pops out of a cavern and fights Thor, Fandral and Hogun. (Volstagg is guarding the horses.) The fight wakes up Wazir from meditation. While Ogur recovers from getting hit by Mjolnir, they ask Wazir the way to the Mystic Mountain. He gives them directions and tells them that it's very dangerous and no one has ever returned. They shrug it off. "This ain't our first rodeo, mister!" They go back down the path and find that Volstagg has fallen asleep but the horses are safe anyway. Volstagg is hilarious!
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Oct 1, 2024 18:18:01 GMT -5
Maybe we can add the Black Widow, though I'm a bit vague on that character's chronology and when exactly she transitioned from more of a hands-off schemer type to the combat expert she became known as later on.
I hate to say it but as time went on, I think even Leiko Wu was put into the damsel in distress role a few times. But I think this was indirectly part of a general trend of diminishing the supporting cast i order to show how Shang Chi was progressing as a martial artist. Reston and Tarr also seemed to become less impressive physically as time went on. And Shang Chi and Cat agrees that while Shang Chi likely would have lost their first fight he would have won their second one years later.
This is one of my few real criticisms of MoKF: that in the last years of the series Moench, perhaps unconsciously, sometimes seemed to be trying to make the protagonist more impressive at the expense of the other characters. In her earlier appearances Leiko Wu was pretty much on equal terms with Shang Chi, but in thelater years, not so much. I've always wondered if this was Moench's way of trying to hold on to the original series concept of depicting "the rising and advancing of a spirit". Yes or no, I always think it's a mistake in fiction to try to make one character look stronger by taking other characters down a peg or two.
I thought of Black Widow but I recall, even when she was in Daredevil in the early 70s, she frequently ended up needing rescuing by DD.
Moench had introduced a precursor to Leiko even before she came along.
Yes indeed! That was Sandy, and even Shang-Chi noticed. The first thing Chi thought about Leiko is that she reminded him of her. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Oct 23, 2024 19:33:23 GMT -5
Thor #138
March 1967 "The Flames of Battle!" Sorry for the delay.  Comments:I agree with mr. X that this story was a step down from the previous arcs. The Orikal character came out of left field. That It is a visitor from another planet and taken prisoner by the trolls, is a bit weak. Marvel in the silver age seemed to be rife with aliens that have tech to travel between star systems but got captured by the people of earth or even trolls. The bad:Where did trolls get the tech to capture Thor and how did it get transported there? Did Tony Stark owe them a favor?   It might have been easier to swallow if it was explained that the Orikal provided them with these objects. The Troll tries to turn Dons walking cane into the Hammer and fails. Not so fast there skippy, didn't the team of Hyde and the Cobra strike the stick without Don holding it in an earlier story and transform him into Thor? Maybe we need a guide telling us which events are no longer canon.  Sloppy story continuity ; The first panel has Ulik throwing a punch and suddenly the second panel has a metal wall appear when Thor side steps the punch. Please don't blame Vinnie for erasing the wall in panel one.  A Sloppy plot device has Thor laying his hammer down to attend to Sif. Why? He could secure it on his belt like he's done many times before. What annoyed me also was that Thor was on the ropes against Ulik in the previous issue and this book has him throwing him and about 4 other trolls around combined. Someone ( Kirby, Lee) should have caught the difference in power levels. It's like they needed an outcome and they just wrote whatever got them there. It's acknowledged that Kirby is co plotter , so one of them should have fixed the story telling. The Good:The Kirby art provided some nice splash pages and battle scenes.   I have to make a comment about the coloring that seems to be an ongoing discussion in this forum. The scans that I have provided are digital and superior to the original coloring IMHO.  The conclusion to the story has Thor waiting the remaining 60 seconds before he loses all his power. This trope is getting tiring. Tales of Asgard
Comments:A 4 pager that doesn't really justify its existence. They find the address to the Mystic Mountain by beating a one eyed monster. Uh wait... Letters page |
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Post by Icctrombone on Oct 27, 2024 20:49:37 GMT -5
The Mighty Thor # 139 Story: Stan Lee/Jack Kirby
Script: Stan Lee
Pencils: Jack Kirby
Inks: Vince Colletta
Plot summary: The cliffhanger from the previous issue has Thor and Sif stranded on earth because Thor's hammer was taken by the trolls. Sif reveals that she has the power of teleport and takes them to Asgard where the Trolls are fighting the Asgardians. ` Once there, they discover that the being called Orikal has been supplying them with weapons and advanced tech to fight the Asgardians. Thor and Sif take on the trolls in their lair and Ulik has a duplicate Mjolnir hammer created by the Orikal technology and they engage each other. The fray is broken up by more of the Orikal weaponry and Thor opens up a wall to escape it when he discovers the Imprisoned alien. Ulik has been following them and tries to kill Orikal because he’s jealous of the attention that was taken away from him. Ulik threatens to increase the flames and heat to murder the alien when Thor throws his hammer at him ,knocking him out. Thor frees the alien who leaves and diables the weapons given to the Trolls. Once the advanced weapons are off the table, Odin leads the army and repels the remaining troll forces. Thor and Sif join the allfather in celebrating the victory as the credits roll. Comments:This issue is an upgrade from the last issue showing some nice action and Sif finally holding her own. Sif having the power of teleportation is an interesting reveal. It says she can bypass the Bridge , so I’m wondering if her power is limited to just going to Asgard , or can she teleport anywhere? As the reading goes on we will find out it even gets used again. Ulik having a duplicate hammer was kind of cool and it didn’t go any further than just a hammer. It obviously didn’t possess any of the magic features. Ulik again has a poor showing in this issue. Thor knocks him clean out with a hammer throw. Orikal seems to be a weird character. He comes from an advanced world but is incapacitated by flames. He also is pretty passive. I was a bit annoyed by his predictions, but given the name of Orkical ( Oracle) I guess Stan had to work predictions into his schtick. Uh, Did Thor really consider killing himself at the beginning of the book, by letting the train hit his mortal form in order to go to Valhalla ? Cool Images:I enjoyed this " back against the wall" image with Thor and Sif.  Tales of Asgard:Thor and crew discover the Mystic mountain is actually underground. Mogul sends the Jenni Devil to take the warriors out. Comments: Nothing really warrants having this feature if it’s going to be this sparse. It’s almost like reading the daily funnies in the newspapers. This cool Image of an underground mountain revealed by Thors hammer is Kirby's imagination at its finest.  This splash page has a Steve Ditko vibe.  Ads and stuff 
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Post by Icctrombone on Oct 28, 2024 6:33:31 GMT -5
Something that I missed, How can Ulik lift the actual hammer ?  |
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Post by berkley on Oct 28, 2024 20:59:29 GMT -5
I've always liked the way Kirby drew dancing women, as in the splash page above with the the girl in the foreground dancing for Moghul. Odd the top of my head, I can't think of anyone else who did it in quite the same way - other artists would tend to rely on motion-lines or music symbols overhead, or some other external indicator. But Kirby did it just with body language, as in this picture with the positioning of the girl's arms and her hand gestures. And instead of motion-lines, he uses the flowing lines of her wispy cape or train or whatever that is. I can recall seeing a few other examples of this kind of thing throughout his work but will have to think some more to pin down the specific comics.
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Post by Hoosier X on Nov 2, 2024 15:26:14 GMT -5
The Mighty Thor # 139 For me, this issue is kind of the end of an era. The Thor series was getting better and better, and it hit a plateau around number 125 and then it was a great comic for a while! #139 is the end of the three-part story arc that introduced Ulik, and that, along with the epic scale and the Geirrodur’s Troll Army and the continuing great Kirby art, puts it with this great era of Thor. But as we’ve been pointing out, there are a few issues with these issues. And I’m not sure which one is the main problem. Is it A) Sif barely pulling her weight and hardly justifying the change from Jane Foster? Or B) The mysterious entity Orikall popping out of left field and somehow weak enough to be the thrall of the trolls, but strong enough to defeat all Asgard? I am not really going to get into it. Except to say that it is very nice to see Sif having a few panels in the conclusion where she is fighting back to back with Thor and beating up on the trolls instead of just being hostage fodder the first time in a troll tries to grab her. So that’s definitely a step in the right direction in #139. I have to agree with Mr. Trombone that #139 is quite a bit better than #138. Also, lots of great art as Asgard fights for its life against the trolls and their many weapons and their schemes. As for Tales of Asgard … It’s winding down. It’s only going to last a few more issues. And there will certainly be some really good segments here and there. The Lee/Kirby Thor series is going to still have some really great story arcs. But not right away. We’ve got a few issues coming that aren’t really very good. But it starts getting really good again around #145 and then we’re going to have another 20 issues or so where it is another great run. Be patient!! |
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Roquefort Raider
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Nov 3, 2024 8:19:32 GMT -5
Something that I missed, How can Ulik lift the actual hammer ? Who'd ha' thunk? Ulik is worthy!!! That reminds me... Didn't he replace Thor a few years ago? Did he have a hammer then? |
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Post by Hoosier X on Nov 5, 2024 21:57:47 GMT -5
Thor #140
May 1967 "The Growing Man!" Conceived and created by Jack Kirby and Stan Lee Inked by Vince Colletta Lettered by Sam Rosen The Troll War is won and all Asgard has gathered for some crazy ceremony where they watch as Odin walks up the majestic Odin-Stairway to retake the sparkling Odin-Throne to show he is again reigning supreme over all the Golden Realm. Odin then takes a royal Odin-Bath (it was A LOT of Odin-Steps in the Odin-Stairway and Odin is kind of stinky) in the Pool of Peace. Thor goes with him to request a boom or something. He asks Odin to be allowed to return to Earth. Meanwhile some cops and some museum officials are examining a mysterious figure that has been uncovered in some non-definite and vaguely described manner. It is dressed in purple and has orange skin. (It will soon be revealed to be The Growing Man!) Anyway, he's growing. Yesterday he was the size of a doll. Now he's the size of a man! They don't know what to do. He awakens and gets bigger and fights them and gets bigger and starts wondering about his purpose in life ... and then he gets bigger! No matter what he does, the only that can happen next is that he gets bigger! He crashes through a wall and wonders around in the streets, mumbling that he needs to find his "master." Back in Asgard, Sif wants to go to Earth with Thor, but Thor tells her, Bah! It's man's work! Make me a sammich, woman! (I'm paraphrasing a bit.) Odin tells Thor he has much to learn about women but gives him permission to go with Sif. Another blatant lost opportunity. We want to see more of Sif! For one thing we'd like to see some evidence that she's more suited to this strip than Jane Foster. But no, not just yet. Sif has to stay on Asgard and clean the Odin-Kitchen or something. Thor goes to Earth and turns to Blake and chats with the janitor. Meanwhile, the cops are looking for the Growing Man as they follow his trail of destruction. Kang steps out from behind a bush and uses a raygun to return the Growing Man back to the size of a doll. The cops confront Kang but they don't accomplish much. Meanwhile, the cops - between panels - have picked up Blake and brought him to the battle site without telling him anything. They finally explain that they want him to contact Thor to help them now that they know Kang is involved. The Growing Man attacks them and Blake turns to Thor in the confusion. Then he fights him for a few pages and figures out that he should stop hitting him because it makes him grow. He walloped the Growing Man with Mjolnir and he was as big as a building afterwards! Kang attacks Thor with COBALT ENERGY embedded in his magic science gloves! This weakens Thor long enough for Kang to tell us all a story about The Growing Man. Kang created the Growing Man to defeat Kang's enemies in the future, probably in a year ending in three zeros. But Kang hid the Growing Man in the 20th century to keep it a secret from Kang's foes. It turns out Thor was faking defeat so that Kang would reveal his plans. Thor say: Ha ha Kang you dumb! Kang escapes to another century (probably to a year ending in three zeros) in a magic science boulder. Kang say: Ha ha Thor who dumb now! Thor uses a new app on his hammer to send Kang's magic science time rock to a Universal Infinity Vortex! Thor say: Ha ha dumb Kang who is now stuck in a vortex! Yup. That's a story that happened. Tales of Asgard: "Battle Begin!": Thor, Fandral, Hogun and Volstagg are fighting a big green jinni! Mogal dissipates the jinni because it's getting dark and the jinni might get a cold overnight, I guess. Thor and his comrades are like, what happened to the jinni? then the walk down some steps. Commentary: That's what happened. I don't have anything else to say about it.
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Roquefort Raider
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Nov 6, 2024 20:10:16 GMT -5
Journey into Mystery #120
September 1965 "With My Hammer in Hand!" The Destroyer is defeated! But we still have a few subplots to resolve from the last few issues. First things first! Thor has to fix Mjolnir, so he goes to Pittsburgh to find a giant blast furnace with a forge great enough to repair Mjolnir. The steel workers cheer him on and Thor manages to put Mjolnir back together again somehow. I wonder if he was singing as he worked the forge! |
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Post by Farrar on Nov 6, 2024 20:30:34 GMT -5
I wonder if he was singing as he worked the forge! ... I attended one of those Siegfrieds! In particular Morris and Voigt were incandescent. That was such a wonderful production (part of Lepage's ambitious and amazing Ring Cycle at the Met). |
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