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Post by commond on Mar 7, 2024 17:01:39 GMT -5
According to everything I've read, Royer inked Kirby exactly the way Kirby wanted. Royer shared an anecdote about trying to pretty up Big Barda's face and getting a scolding from Jack who told him to never change the faces.
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Post by Prince Hal on Mar 7, 2024 17:10:08 GMT -5
According to everything I've read, Royer inked Kirby exactly the way Kirby wanted. Royer shared an anecdote about trying to pretty up Big Barda's face and getting a scolding from Jack who told him to never change the faces. I’ve heard that, too.
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Post by Farrar on Mar 7, 2024 18:47:46 GMT -5
Great episode!
And while there's probably more than a little of good ol' 20/20 hindsight involved, fwiw Infantino always maintained that he was against the 1971 price increase to 25 cents.
For instance in an interview that's included in the TwoMorrows book Carmine Infantino: Penciler/Publisher/Provocateur, Infantino states that going from 15 cents to a quarter was due to "the Independent News guy, Harold Chamberlain. He and [Jack] Liebowitz were involved with that. I had nothing to do with that. When Marvel went down to 20 cents, I thought we should have gone back down to 20 cents immediately. I said, "It's not going to work. We're going to get creamed."
Chamberlain said, "I know more than you do about this. We're staying at a quarter. Our readers are loyal."
Well, bull. The fans went for the cheaper books. You can't blame them."
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Post by Farrar on Mar 7, 2024 18:50:14 GMT -5
Also fwiw, on the subject of Aquaman#42, everything I've read over the years points to the logo as being Cardy's work (as Prince Hal noted). Cardy was a staunch admirer of Eisner's The Spirit splash pages that incorporated the title logo into the illustration. As such Cardy asked if he could "put the title logo at the bottom, so I could incorporate it into the ledge of the volcano." And of course Infantino loved the idea and that sort of design; remember his own Batman #194 and Flash #74 covers? At any rate, Cardy and Infantino were admirers of each other's work; and Cardy says that Infantino gave him more and more artistic freedom, so even when Infantino provided a cover sketch Cardy could still add his own ideas and could experiment on those those Aquaman covers.
(One source: the TwoMorrows book Nick Cardy: Behind the Art; highly recommended for Cardy lovers!)
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Post by Farrar on Mar 7, 2024 19:16:03 GMT -5
- I'm curious about the Kamandi/Planet of the Apes thing. Wiki says this : Wow, I had no idea that that the famous, accomplished music composer and conductor Pierre Boulez had also authored such a timeless, famous novel! (Among his many accomplishments, Boulez was once the music director/lead conductor of the New York Philharmonic, before the arrival of Zubie Baby ). Just kidding; once again Wikipedia's slip is showing. Obviously the POTA author is Pierre Boulle...and not Pierre Boulez. (Hmmm, maybe the person who entered this into Wiki was the victim of predictive typing/autocorrect or something?) Anyway, like many people I find Wikipedia's reference links/sources very helpful...but the info in the entries themselves? Very suspect, to say the least. And yes, I know this sort of thing is old news...I just felt like venting. So humor me.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Mar 7, 2024 19:36:00 GMT -5
I never picked up on the Boulle-Boulez error!!! I'm a big fan of the centenary Ring, by the way, which I listened to with my dad when he decided to break his piggy bank and buy the records, way back when.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Mar 8, 2024 8:45:36 GMT -5
Great episode! And while there's probably more than a little of good ol' 20/20 hindsight involved, fwiw Infantino always maintained that he was against the 1971 price increase to 25 cents. For instance in an interview that's included in the TwoMorrows book Carmine Infantino: Penciler/Publisher/Provocateur, Infantino states that going from 15 cents to a quarter was due to "the Independent News guy, Harold Chamberlain. He and [Jack] Liebowitz were involved with that. I had nothing to do with that. When Marvel went down to 20 cents, I thought we should have gone back down to 20 cents immediately. I said, "It's not going to work. We're going to get creamed." Chamberlain said, "I know more than you do about this. We're staying at a quarter. Our readers are loyal." Well, bull. The fans went for the cheaper books. You can't blame them." I find it fascinating how it's commonly acknowledged that Kinney was Mafia controlled (or at least Mafia influenced) and yet no one ever assumes any Mafia influence on how prices were set and brokerage fees negotiated. Seems pretty clear to me that, when prices quietly go up and the management tells you "don't rock the boat," it's because someone with a gun is lining their pockets.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Mar 8, 2024 8:51:17 GMT -5
Also fwiw, on the subject of Aquaman#42, everything I've read over the years points to the logo as being Cardy's work (as Prince Hal noted). Cardy was a staunch admirer of Eisner's T he Spirit splash pages that incorporated the title logo into the illustration. As such Cardy asked if he could "put the title logo at the bottom, so I could incorporate it into the ledge of the volcano." Thanks for this! I often noted in my Teen Titans from The Beginning thread how much Cardy's art began to explode early into the Infantino Era. The mutual respect is evident as that book becomes increasingly visual and experimental, as well as increasingly aimed at an older, more mature readership.
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Post by Cei-U! on Mar 8, 2024 14:07:14 GMT -5
You know this picture is by Jim Aparo, not Cardy, right?
Cei-U! I summon the case of mistaken identity!
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Mar 8, 2024 16:18:03 GMT -5
You know this picture is by Jim Aparo, not Cardy, right? Cei-U! I summon the case of mistaken identity!
I was just going for the most disappointed Aquaman I could find. Considering his scope and power set, I'm more than a little surprised that was the most disappointed Aquaman I could find.
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Post by commond on Mar 18, 2024 18:29:03 GMT -5
Does anyone know what prompted the sudden change in tone in Bat Lash with the tragic backstory?
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Mar 20, 2024 20:44:53 GMT -5
Does anyone know what prompted the sudden change in tone in Bat Lash with the tragic backstory? Perhaps Cei-U! knows?
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Post by Prince Hal on Mar 20, 2024 21:41:50 GMT -5
Two interviews in Comic Book Artist, one with Joe Orlando and one with Sergio Aragones, shed a little light. I found them mentioned in a longer article about the series here: diodatilodge.wordpress.com/tag/bat-lash/Joe Orlando apparently didn't care for the more humorous tone of Bat Lash, which, reminded me and many another reader of the old "Maverick" TV series, particularly the episodes starring James Garner. Orlando says that the comic "was beautifully drawn by Nick Cardy but he pushed it more to the humor than to the straight. He tipped it a bit too much for my taste. He would focus too much on the humorous side of characters and stray from the main storyline.” Given Sergio's sense of humor, I find it a bit ironic that he also wasn't too crazy about the humorous approach: “There was one issue I didn’t write at all (#2); I think I was moving to the West Coast. Nick Cardy wrote it. I was surprised, because he made Bat look like a clown. He drew all the characters so cartoony, falling in bathtubs, and hanging from roofs… It really hurt me a lot, because I didn’t want anything like that. The humor should be the result of Bat Lash’s action.” The change in tone happened in #6, which was the penultimate issue. As someone who loved that title, I certainly did notice the shift to a more serious approach, but I have to say that I was neither surprised nor upset. To me it simply showed that the series could go in different directions, Just because Bat was a rapscallion who was wandering around the West getting in and out of trouble didn't mean he couldn't have a serious side. In fact, that dashing devil-may-care style of his may well have been an escape, a cover, and a way to keep a tragic past from overwhelming him. I haven't read those issues in a hundred years, but I can safely say that I enjoyed them as much as I had the first five (plus the Showcase issue) and that the tragedy Bat had endured and would confront again (I'd go further, but don't want to spoil anything) was certainly in line with traditional Westerns, both in the comics and on the screen. I wonder if the letters pages will be of help. I'll have to dig them out and see.
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Post by MDG on Mar 21, 2024 12:20:04 GMT -5
... Given Sergio's sense of humor, I find it a bit ironic that he also wasn't too crazy about the humorous approach: “There was one issue I didn’t write at all (#2); I think I was moving to the West Coast. Nick Cardy wrote it. I was surprised, because he made Bat look like a clown. He drew all the characters so cartoony, falling in bathtubs, and hanging from roofs… It really hurt me a lot, because I didn’t want anything like that. The humor should be the result of Bat Lash’s action.” So maybe Cardy took advantage of the chance to write a story that gave him a chance to do something different and fun for him. As someone who loved that title, I certainly did notice the shift to a more serious approach, but I have to say that I was neither surprised nor upset. To me it simply showed that the series could go in different directions, Just because Bat was a rapscallion who was wandering around the West getting in and out of trouble didn't mean he couldn't have a serious side. In fact, that dashing devil-may-care style of his may well have been an escape, a cover, and a way to keep a tragic past from overwhelming him. ... I felt the same; I liked the idea that the tone could vary while maintaining the essentials of the character.
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Post by Prince Hal on May 4, 2024 12:01:56 GMT -5
Offered for your consideration... Just was reading Mark Evanier's blog the other day and a reader asked him if he had any insight into the quick cancellations of so many of the titles that originated during the Infantino years. Excerpted from his response: ME: "I've discussed this at length with a lot of folks who were around then, a few of whom are still around and we're still discussing it. My answer is that there were many problems but I would put "panicked employees" pretty high on the list. When a bi-monthly comic ran 5-7 issues, that generally means that they gave up on it after seeing the early sales figures on the second issue.
I also think that kids were increasingly non-captivated by bi-monthly books, which is the way DC tried launching almost everything that was new. Most of the Marvel books were monthly and interconnected so you could get a couple visits to that world every week, whereas you had to wait a long time between issues of Anthro. Kids raised on television didn't like to wait for their entertainment." PH Reaction: Evanier's mentioning the bi-monthly publishing schedule hadn't occurred to me as a reason, but it makes sense given Marvel's commitment to monthly publication. And since the sales numbers took four months to come back for two bi-monthly issues, DC could have gone monthly with at least a couple of those titles and actually saved money by cancelling them if needed before publishing seven issues. Not sure, though, that I buy the idea that kids raised on TV didn't want to wait. I always preferred monthly or the eight-issues-a-year books to bi-monthlies and I was part of that generation. We were used to waiting a week or even more, depending on the season, for the next installment of a show we liked. But, to start a new comic as a bi-monthly definitely didn't make sense then given the increase in the number of Marvel monthly titles. A new bi-monthly risks dying on the vine. It's why it was smart for DC to turn Showcase from a bi-monthly into a title published eight times a year. Although when that happened, DC published a series of one-time appearances and launched a batch of number ones right away, as if the Showcase issue were the real first issue (Or Number 0?)of titles like Creeper, Hawk and the Dove and Bat Lash. I'm guessing they wanted to get the titles out to fill the shelves and see what the sales were like more quickly than if they'd done the traditional three-issue debut. Also made it seem as if things were hopping at DC. They returned to the traditional three debut issues approach with # 82 (Nightmaster) so that at least two of the three issues would come out out right after the other. This format continued until Showcase folded its tent four series later with #93. (When it returned briefly, it followed the same three-issue format with the Doom Patrol, Power Girl and Hawkman features.) ME: "In the late sixties/early seventies, the system via which comic books were distributed was crumbling and Marvel was gaining a headlock on what was left of it. Fewer and fewer stores had comic book racks. In 1970 when my pal/partner Steve Sherman and I visited DC Comics for the first time, the guy in charge — Carmine Infantino — kept quizzing on where we bought our comics in Los Angeles. He was asking us if we had any ideas of how DC could get comics to more potential buyers in our town. He wouldn't have been asking us if Independent News — a division of the same company that was the major magazine distributor in the U.S. — had any ideas."PH Reaction: This squares with something shaxper mentioned about DC talking to kids/ readers about what comics they bought, etc. because they had few ways to dig into the numbers, and with Marvel increasing the number of titles, DC was on the defensive for the first time. And I'm guessing Independent wasn't going to do much to help the comics, which had a lower profit per book than the slick magazines (girlie books and others) that were way more profitable and therefore were better to push for valuable newsstand space. ME: "But they clearly didn't. And what we learned was that the folks over in [the] Independent office had very little confidence that the problem could be solved… or was worth solving. It was rumored around the DC office that some were suggesting that DC just scale back to the few properties that had merchandising value — Superman, Batman, a few others — and just publish those books, maybe as reprints, to keep the properties 'alive.' " PH Reaction: Licensing was/is always a driver of any company's comics-based profits and now that DC was no longer a sorta/kinda family business, it was even more so than it had been. ME: "Infantino was a wonderful artist. If you only know his later work, seek out what he did before he was elevated into DC management. Brilliant designs, brilliant storytelling. And when he was moved from drawing comics into the editorial division, he greatly improved the look and feel of the DC line, especially the covers… but only for a while. Others may give you other views of this but mine is that Carmine's skills were largely creative and he was installed in a position that required more of a head for business and marketing than he possessed." (BF mine) PH Reaction: That's what I said about Carmine's rising to a position for which he was essentially unsuited. Further proof that Evanier is a brilliant man. ME: "When a TV show is canceled, that doesn't always mean it was a show no one wanted to watch. It may have been a case of someone in management panicking or making a bad call and dropping a show that would have built up a solid following if it had been given more time. There are plenty of examples of programs that were almost canceled but were given enough time including M*A*S*H, Cheers and Seinfeld. I don't see why anyone would think that the decisions to cancel certain comics after a few issues couldn't have been bad decisions."PH Reaction: Yep. And in the wake of the cancellations of all those new titles DC published in '68 and '69, they were replaced not by more experiments but by safer titles aimed at the burgeoning horror market and various less costly reprint titles -- Westerns, sf, humor, etc.
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