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Post by driver1980 on Mar 26, 2024 13:17:14 GMT -5
Firstly, I haven’t read as many Conan comics as some have, nor does the topic of Conan come up in my daily life. That said, I have read reviews of various Conan comics, both print and online reviews.
It does seem like Conan has been consistent, whatever the licensee, if comments I’ve read are anything to go by. I enjoyed the various The Savage Sword of Conan tales I read. I enjoyed the very few Dark Horse stories I read. And the modern Marvel tales. I haven’t read any of the Titan stories. It just seems like I’ve read nothing but positive comments about Conan’s comicbook exploits - and that’s nice.
Everything is subjective, but it doesn’t always feel that way with some characters, even when a character remains with a licensee, e.g. there were quite a few negative letters about Howard Mackie’s Spidey run, published in various reprint comics here. Whether we’re talking about RoboCop, Star Wars, or Star Trek, there often seems a more passionate discourse when comparing licensees (for me, no-one did Star Trek and Star Trek: TNG better than DC). But it seems like the majority of views - at least those I’ve read - seem positive about Conan, whether it be about Jim Zub’s current run on Conan the Barbarian, or countless Dark Horse issues I’ve seen reviewed.
If you agree with the premise of my post, what do you think is the reason for Conan’s consistency/popularity over time at different licensees? Strong source material? A bit of luck (e.g. always getting talented creators)? Adherence to canon? What do you think?
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Post by MRPs_Missives on Mar 26, 2024 13:38:52 GMT -5
First I think is the stature of Conan within its genre. Conan is as important/influential/trendsetting to the sword & sorcery genre as Superman is to superhero stories (not my words, that's a paraphrase of Jim Zub). Howard's Conan stories defined what sword and sorcery is the way Superman defined what superhero stories were.
When something is that iconic and foundational to an entre genre, it becomes timeless. That's not to say there's not a lot of bad Conan stories out there, there are, just as there are a lot of bad Superman stories out there. But because it is so foundational, it can endure those bad stories without eroding the essential appeal of the character and genre.
It also makes it strong enough to be able to handle multiple interpretations of the character, both good and bad. Arnold's Conan in the movies is a very different interpretation of the character, and was very successful. And for a time that influenced perceptions and presentations of the character, and yet the core of the Howard stories survived, endured, and eventually reasserted/reestablished itself as the core of the character that was influencing what came after. The Conan cartoon was also a very different interpretation, yet the core persisted. The de Camp/Carter Conan was an interpretation that was dominant for a long time, yet eventually the Howard core reasserted and reestablished itself.
Why? Because it was foundational to the genre it created for a reason. It was the template, and as many generations of copies that occur, the original will always persist, especially when copies of copies of copies degrade the essence of it, you always go back to the original.
Just as it is impossible to do superheroes without accounting for Superman (whether you are emulating it or consciously rejecting it to go against type, you are still accounting for it), it is impossible to do sword & sorcery (or any pulpy fantasy really) without accounting for Conan. And that is at the core of its timelessness.
-M
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Post by majestic on Mar 26, 2024 18:23:13 GMT -5
Conan is also a well known character that attracts top creators. It is probably an honor to be able to be a creator on Conan
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2024 19:18:35 GMT -5
I remember seeing this old 80s flick called 'The Sword and the Sorcerer' and even then, when I was 4 feet tall, I kept pointing at the telly and saying it's a Conan wannabe.
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Post by MRPs_Missives on Mar 26, 2024 19:58:28 GMT -5
I remember seeing this old 80s flick called 'The Sword and the Sorcerer' and even then, when I was 4 feet tall, I kept pointing at the telly and saying it's a Conan wannabe. Yup. No different than all those super-heroes from the 40s onward that people could point to and say it's a Superman wannabe. That's pretty much par for the course for a character who stamps the template for a genre. -M
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Post by driver1980 on Mar 26, 2024 20:20:46 GMT -5
I remember seeing this old 80s flick called 'The Sword and the Sorcerer' and even then, when I was 4 feet tall, I kept pointing at the telly and saying it's a Conan wannabe. Yup. No different than all those super-heroes from the 40s onward that people could point to and say it's a Superman wannabe. That's pretty much par for the course for a character who stamps the template for a genre. -M I seem to recall a few Conan-style movies in the 80s. One was Deathstalker. There was another, but I can’t remember what it was called. I remember the movie poster: a guy, possibly wearing bear fur (or big cat fur) holding a pickaxe atop a cliff. I remember the movie poster and the film being good (quite a few movies had better posters than plots, but this one had both).
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Post by MRPs_Missives on Mar 26, 2024 20:30:56 GMT -5
Yup. No different than all those super-heroes from the 40s onward that people could point to and say it's a Superman wannabe. That's pretty much par for the course for a character who stamps the template for a genre. -M I seem to recall a few Conan-style movies in the 80s. One was Deathstalker. There was another, but I can’t remember what it was called. I remember the movie poster: a guy, possibly wearing bear fur (or big cat fur) holding a pickaxe atop a cliff. I remember the movie poster and the film being good (quite a few movies had better posters than plots, but this one had both). There were a whole slew of sword & sorcery movies in the 80s after the success of Arnie's Conan. Deathstalker was one (and there's new Deathstalker comic coming out next month btw), there was a series called the Sword & Sorcerer, there was of course Beast Master, and several more. There have been a couple of recent youtube vids doing top 10 sword & sorcery lists (one by Stygian Dogs a regular reviewer of all things Howard especially the new Conan comics, and one by Bob Freeman the co-writer on the recent Vampirella Dead Flowers mini with Sara Frazetta) but I haven't had a chance to watch them yet (saved to my watch later lists). There was one that featured a pair of male twins are barbarians but I forget it's title, and even things like Krull were riding the coattails of Conan's success. Most of them were Conan knock-offs in one manner or another, though a few, like Beast Master, had enough differences ot stand pretty well on their own. -M PS edit to add-there's a whole bunch of them (or were last time I looked) available for free on Tubi if you have access to that free streaming service.
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Post by MRPs_Missives on Mar 26, 2024 20:34:11 GMT -5
There was also a recent book I haven't checked out yet on many such movies and related genres called Cinema of Swords... by Lawrence Ellsworth. I've requested it through interlibrary loan just recently and am waiting for it to arrive. -M
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Post by tarkintino on Mar 26, 2024 20:51:17 GMT -5
There was also a recent book I haven't checked out yet on many such movies and related genres called Cinema of Swords... by Lawrence Ellsworth. I've requested it through interlibrary loan just recently and am waiting for it to arrive. -M Interesting that he used so heavily a fantasy representation such as The Golden Voyage of Sinbad for the cover. Perhaps the striking scene has more shelf appeal than the standard bare-chested swordsman or clanking knight.
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Post by MRPs_Missives on Mar 26, 2024 20:55:26 GMT -5
Interesting that he used so heavily a fantasy representation such as The Golden Voyage of Sinbad for the cover. Perhaps the striking scene has more shelf appeal than the standard bare-chested swordsman or clanking knight. Or the Harryhausen estate was easier (or cheaper) to license image and likeness rights from than some of the others, or wanted to include Harryhausen as part of the marketing appeal. There's a thousand possible reasons why, but it's likely a publisher decision or art director/designer decision, not an authorial one. -M
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Post by MRPs_Missives on Mar 26, 2024 21:02:37 GMT -5
If anyone wants to watch those 2 top lists...
Here's Bob's...
-M
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Post by driver1980 on Mar 26, 2024 21:02:53 GMT -5
I don’t have access to Tubi, but there is a free streaming service here called Plex. I just checked, and there are some of the films you mentioned on there. I’m also pleased to hear about a Deathstalker comic. I do agree that The Beastmaster had enough that was unique to stand on its own. tarkintino, it’s not exactly the same, but I once read about someone who’d ordered a model of Universal’s Wolf Man - but ended up with Hammer’s Werewolf. Or maybe it was the other way around!
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Post by MRPs_Missives on Mar 26, 2024 21:03:11 GMT -5
and here's Stygian Dogs...
Again, haven't watched either yet, so can't vouch for them, but I like other stuff they've done.
-M
edit so Stygian Dog's video is a reaction to Bob Freeman's so watch Bob's first.
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Post by driver1980 on Mar 26, 2024 21:04:41 GMT -5
Did sword and sorcery movies go into “hibernation” in the 90s? Other than Beastmaster sequels, I can’t remember many, although I can remember some stuff occurring on TV; perhaps producers felt TV was the better medium for it at that time. I don’t know.
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Post by MRPs_Missives on Mar 26, 2024 21:08:33 GMT -5
Did sword and sorcery movies go into “hibernation” in the 90s? Other than Beastmaster sequels, I can’t remember many, although I can remember some stuff occurring on TV; perhaps producers felt TV was the better medium for it at that time. I don’t know. A lot of bad movies trying to cash in on the Conan craze did bad box office and it became diminishing returns, so not a lot of fantasy in general, or sword and sorcery in particular got made in the 90s. Some of it moved to syndicated TV (The Beastmaster series, a Conan series, and a few others, plus Hercules and Xena had similar DNA), but yeah it wasn't a big decade for S&S stuff in movies (or in comics and book publishing either). In books, the 90s saw the start of massive fantasy series like Wheel of Time and a transition into what is sometimes called modern fantasy (epitomized by long series with several books each of which could act as a doorstopper on its own) rather than the standalone novel or short story/novella length tale that was typical to S&S). -M
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