shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Apr 15, 2024 21:32:00 GMT -5
 Without the leadership of Stan Lee nor the vision of Jack Kirby, it fell upon Roy Thomas to steer Marvel into the 1970s. Join George, Jeff, and special guest Rob Allen in exploring the challenges, the triumphs, and the innovations that made this brief but critical era of Marvel Comics one of its most definitive. Listen on Podbeanor on Youtube(as always, an extra special THANKS to our patreon supporters: Slam_Bradley , zaku , MDG , MWGallaher , thwhtguardian , and berkley!) patreon.com/TheClassicComicsForum |
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Post by Icctrombone on Apr 16, 2024 7:06:52 GMT -5
THE ONLY GOOD HUMAN , is a dead HUMAN !
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Apr 16, 2024 10:16:30 GMT -5
Another neat episode, gents, and what a good idea it was to invite Rob for a Roy Thomas-centric episode! And now... our bullet points review! - One thing I really enjoy about these podcasts is that I get to hear the name of creators spoken aloud at long last. I had always pronounced the name of Rich Bukler "Rick". 48 years of living a LIE!!!  - I wasn't aware that Roy's first marriage had suffered from his wife being lied to regarding a job at Marvel. That's pretty bad. - Roy not being respected by the staff because he wasn't really the big boss must also have been tremendously infuriating. Not only because it undermined his authority as EiC and made him less efficient, but because it hit the same spot as the "Houseroy" caricature that must have hurt him. - Ross Andru is naturally associated with Spidey at Marvel, but I feel compelled to point out his brilliant work on Kull the Conqueror #1. Yeah, sure, having Wally Wood as an inker helps a lot... but Ross's pencils were great, and created an entire aesthetics that was clearly different from what Smith was doing on Conan or what Foster had done with Prince Valiant. - Roy and Barry Smith on Conan? They were the Beatles, especially after issue #10. I can't decide what was the best story between Song of Red Sonja, Red Nails, Hawks from the Sea or the Black Hound's Revenge... the entire run was simply brilliant. - Dracula was indeed a denizen of the Marvel Universe. He even kicked the Silver Surfer's butt, something that even as a kid I realized made no sense whatsoever. Dracula, the Monster of Frankenstein, Shang-Chi, Conan, the Living Mummy, Deathlok... they should all have have been left to their own universes. - I love the respect expressed for Roy's loyalty and professionalism. It might only have been funnybooks, but he took them seriously. The sense of continuity, the sense of history he brought to a title made me want to learn more about it in a way a succession of done-in-ones couldn't have. - I was shocked to learn about that big Marvel party where Roy wasn't invited. That's just insane. - And hey, I didn't realize that Paul's theme song ran longer at the end of the show! |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Apr 16, 2024 10:45:42 GMT -5
- One thing I really enjoy about these podcasts is that I get to hear the name of creators spoken aloud at long last. I had always pronounced the name of Rich Bukler "Rick". 48 years of living a LIE!!! One of my favorite aspects of the show is quickly becoming the moment every damn episode where I am about to say someone's name and suddenly realize I have no idea how to pronounce it (while everyone else does). We should make a special segment for, "Jeff Screws Up Yet Another Pronunciation". So you're definitely not alone in this! And this was really pretty much all Stan's fault. I confided in George while researching for this episode that, while I've always really really liked Stan (even while debating his authorship on certain things), I lost some respect for him here. I'm sure someone will take issue with my saying that. Red Nails. Definitely Red Nails. Conan probably needs his own episode. I have a pretty good idea who we would need as a guest if we ever end up going there... One could argue that Marvel's books and characters began to respect themselves more because of Roy's influence. Certainly the slavish adherence to continuity that excites some of us and irks others of us extends from Roy's influence. Stan and Jack had continuity, but not to that level. It truly mystifies me. Paul is such a professional that he actually recorded FOUR versions of the song. We use one at the start and one at the end. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Apr 17, 2024 3:25:07 GMT -5
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Apr 17, 2024 6:20:18 GMT -5
What? That's ridiculous? Who'd even read ( let alone review) such a comic series? |
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Post by EdoBosnar on Apr 18, 2024 3:54:06 GMT -5
Good show, and it was nice to hear Rob Allen. And it's nice to see Roy Thomas getting discussed - strangely enough, he never really seems to be the sole focus of any of the comics podcasts I've listened to over the years. Otherwise, since Roquefort Raider breached the topic of pronunciation, I have to say that I found it quite interesting that all of you were pronouncing Ka-Zar the same way I (and a buddy of mine) did back when we were kids (i.e., with the short 'a' sound) - which, of course, we all later learned was incorrect, as it's apparently supposed to be 'Kay-Zar'. |
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Post by shaxper on Apr 18, 2024 4:48:43 GMT -5
which, of course, we all later learned was incorrect, as it's apparently supposed to be 'Kay-Zar'.  I wonder whether they kept a list of official pronunciations somewhere or just all asked Mark Gruenwald. |
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Post by Cei-U! on Apr 18, 2024 4:50:47 GMT -5
I have to say that I found it quite interesting that all of you were pronouncing Ka-Zar the same way I (and a buddy of mine) did back when we were kids (i.e., with the short 'a' sound) - which, of course, we all later learned was incorrect, as it's apparently supposed to be 'Kay-Zar'. Actually, according to X-Men #10, it's pronounced "Kay-Sar." Cei-U! I summon the Savage Land swinger!
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Post by EdoBosnar on Apr 18, 2024 5:34:36 GMT -5
Actually, according to X-Men #10, it's pronounced "Kay-Sar." (...) Close to how, reportedly, the ancient Romans actually pronounced Caesar (i.e. Kye-sar). |
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Post by shaxper on Apr 18, 2024 5:52:43 GMT -5
Actually, according to X-Men #10, it's pronounced "Kay-Sar." (...) Close to how, reportedly, the ancient Romans actually pronounced Caesar (i.e. Kye-sar). Well that's just silly. Didn't they ever hear of Shakespeare? |
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Post by Rob Allen on Apr 18, 2024 12:09:32 GMT -5
For me, that caption in X-Men #10 is in the Mopee category. Yes, it's in the comic, but it doesn't count. "Ka-Zar" is pronounced the way it's spelled.
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Post by shaxper on Apr 19, 2024 6:19:19 GMT -5
Upon relistening to the episode, I realized why George is right at 33:36 that none of the projects created by the people Roy Thomas brought in lasted very long -- Shooter fired or pushed out nearly all of those creators and/or cancelled many of those projects. Thomas brought in free-thinkers to create non-traditional superheroes, and Shooter wanted creators who would fall in line and revitalize traditional superheroes. I doubt it was personal, but Shooter effectively undid everything Thomas brought to Marvel.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Apr 20, 2024 8:16:01 GMT -5
Upon relistening to the episode, I realized why George is right at 33:36 that none of the projects created by the people Roy Thomas brought in lasted very long -- Shooter fired or pushed out nearly all of those creators and/or cancelled many of those projects. Thomas brought in free-thinkers to create non-traditional superheroes, and Shooter wanted creators who would fall in line and revitalize traditional superheroes. I doubt it was personal, but Shooter effectively undid everything Thomas brought to Marvel. I believe it all comes down to sales, personally. Shooter wanted comics that sold, and it's true that many of the less traditional books didn't sell as much as the X-Men or Spider-Man. That being said, Shooter did green light things like The Nam, an original take on Ka-Zar, Micronauts, G.I. Joe, Dakota North, Savage Tales, with varying degrees of success. I don't think he was against new original ideas, but he wasn't ready to cut them too much slack if they failed to bring in the money; as EiC, he probably thought it was his job to put Star Creator A on a better selling title than to let them "waste" their time on a good but low-selling book. Roy, to me, was more of a comics fan. He wanted to publish comics that he'd want to read first and foremost, and the fact that they made money was probably just an added bonus. That's creatively very commendable, but I see why someone more business-oriented would not go that way. |
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Post by MDG on Apr 20, 2024 10:44:09 GMT -5
There's also the question of whether Roy's "by fans, for fans" accelerated the shrinkage of the comic-buying audience before LCSs became common.
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