|
Post by driver1980 on May 12, 2024 7:33:13 GMT -5
I don’t believe I’ve ever read a single Marvel Knights comic. And I’m not sure how to define it (I remember the ads). Were they apocryphal stories? Or were they in continuity? Were they meant to be darker stories? I don’t know for sure. I know I could Google it, but why not go to people who followed it?
Did anyone read it? If so, did you have any favourite titles? Was it apocryphal? What was the motivation behind it (I often wondered, based on my limited knowledge of it, whether it was a “test run” for the Ultimate Universe)?
I’m interested in all views, from those who liked it to those who didn’t like it. And if you did like it, what other characters, if any, do you think might have been served well by the imprint?
Since I’ve never read a Marvel Knights comic, I’m gonna sit back and hand the discussion over to you.
EDIT: I did come across one Joe Quesada quote on Wikipedia, which had a link/source:
I may be missing context, but something about that is peculiar. Does such a premise risk undermining the mainstream Marvel titles? As a wrestling fan, I’d find it odd if WWE set up an offshoot promotion and said, “This is where wrestlers and promoters will work without constraint and deliver matches fans deserve.” If I read a comment like that, were such a thing to happen, I’d be saying, “What does say about the main WWE roster/programming?”
But I am open to learn if there’s wider context to that quote.
|
|
|
Post by wildfire2099 on May 12, 2024 7:39:45 GMT -5
I remember feeling at the time it was Marvel doing a bad job of copying Vertigo... I tried a couple of the books I think, but none stand out. Looking it up, it was a lot more encompassing than I remember!
|
|
|
Post by Icctrombone on May 12, 2024 8:03:15 GMT -5
I thought it was bold move , but I'm not a big fan of street level characters . That prevented me from buying any of it. Years later, I read the Kevin Smith DD run. It was okay.
|
|
|
Post by MRPs_Missives on May 12, 2024 8:28:20 GMT -5
I thought it was a shot of creativity that Marvel badly needed for many of its more moribund properties, ones that they could be bold and experimental with without putting valuable licensing IP at risk.
The Kevin Smith/Quesada Daredevil, Paul Jenkins/Jae Lee Inhumans, Dan Jolley/Tony Harris/Paul Chadwick Doctor Strange and especially the Christopher Priest Black Panther series were all highlights for me. There were some misses (Punisher though the Wrightson art was a plus), and the actual Marvel Knights team book, come to mind, but overall I think the line successfully broke ground in reinvigorating a number of characters that were going nowhere in the market at the time. To borrow Marvel marketing parlance-it was Heroes Reborn done right in terms of story and character reinvigoration. Heroes Reborn was a sales juggernaut at first, but a dismal creative failure overall that shed it sales because all those who came found nothing worth staying for. That created a lot of initial skepticism which limited initial sales on the MK initiative, but the books were god enough to build readership, not lose it, and rales gradually built on most of the titles and the ongoings (DD & Panther) lasted for some solid lengthy runs, and the minis were selling as well if not better when they ended as when they launched. The MK initiative built enough goodwill in the marketplace that Quesada was tabbed as the new EiC off the strength of it, and whatever you think of his tenure, he successfully oversaw Marvel's recovery from their bankruptcy pit, and that was all built on the back of the Knights line.
The Heroes Return line was ameliorating the damage to the brand done to those characters by Heroes Return, but MK was creating a new brand for Marvel that led to new avenues moving forward. The line had plenty of misses, but overall was a key piece of the Marvel recovery that set the stage for things to come in other media.
But if you want to check out titles I would suggest trying the Black Panther series as the best of the lot, then the Inhumans maxi-series, the Smith and Bendis Daredevil runs, the Doctor Strange mini (Flight of the Bones), and the Black Widow minis that introduced the 2nd Widow. The other stuff I didn't like as much, but others may.
But I would put the Priest Panther run in the echelon among quintessential iconic all time Marvel runs.
-M
|
|
|
Post by kirby101 on May 12, 2024 8:54:02 GMT -5
I remember they being mostly better than the regular line, which had gotten tired by this time. And I remember them being so successful that they made Queseda the Editor-in-Chief of Marvel. But I still think killing Karen was a mistake.
|
|
|
Post by majestic on May 12, 2024 19:26:55 GMT -5
I bought the Black Panther and Daredevil titles. They were really high quality in story and art. Not sure about the other titles but I feel this line revitalized Marvel at that time. Having the Knights label on the cover usually meant you were going to get a top notch book. There were other titles later on like the Fantastic Four maxi series that were great.
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on May 12, 2024 20:25:29 GMT -5
I didn't read the stuff; but, recall, at the time, that their books were better reviewed and had better consistent numbers than most of Marvel's line, which is why Quesda was eventually made the boss. It did seem like Vertigo-Lite; but, they didn't have the same level of writers involved.
Definitely better than Heroes Reborn; but, then again, what isn't?
The only thing I ended up reading was Smith's Daredevil and it was okay, just not really what I enjoyed in a Daredevil comic. Miller wasn't, either; but, I preferred the crime fiction stuff to what Smith was doing, though I was more inclined to read it than some of the other post-Miller takes on the character, until Mark Waid started writing it. Waid hit more on the stuff I used to enjoy.
Never read Priest's Black panther, but always heard good things. Dr Strange was never my cup of tea, outside of the Defenders and I was indifferent to the Inhumans.
Before Marvel Knights, the company was in an editorial mess, brought on by their corporate mess.
|
|
|
Post by berkley on May 12, 2024 23:52:10 GMT -5
Looking up the wiki page, I see that it started in 1998 which was a few years before I started looking at mainstream Marvel/DC superhero comics again sometime in the 2000s. This was mostly because of joining the discussions at the old CBR and hearing about various things there then having a look at them at the local comic shop. I couldn't see any great difference between Marvel Knights and the regular Marvel series - they all seemed much the same style to me, probably because it had been so many years since I'd tried reading anything of that kind.
From the wiki list, I see that I did buy at least one Marvel Knights miniseries, The Frank Cho Shanna one, which wasn't that great. I also read the first instalments of both the Kevin Smith Daredevil and the Gaiman 1602 but didn't continue either series past their respective #1 issues. I thought the Moench/Gulacy MoKF miniseries that I read around that time might also be a Marvel Knights but they don't list it on the wiki page so maybe not. I also recall buying a Bullseye miniseries in collected form at some point, again, not sure if it was part of the Marvel Knights line or not. I never did get around to reading it but I think I must still have it around here somewhere as I don't recall getting rid of it. The MoKF was all right, a bit up and down but enough good parts that I was glad to have read it.
|
|
|
Post by MRPs_Missives on May 13, 2024 0:09:25 GMT -5
Looking up the wiki page, I see that it started in 1998 which was a few years before I started looking at mainstream Marvel/DC superhero comics again sometime in the 2000s. This was mostly because of joining the discussions at the old CBR and hearing about various things there then having a look at them at the local comic shop. I couldn't see any great difference between Marvel Knights and the regular Marvel series - they all seemed much the same style to me, probably because it had been so many years since I'd tried reading anything of that kind. From the wiki list, I see that I did buy at least one Marvel Knights miniseries, The Frank Cho Shanna one, which wasn't that great. I also read the first instalments of both the Kevin Smith Daredevil and the Gaiman 1602 but didn't continue either series past their respective #1 issues. I thought the Moench/Gulacy MoKF miniseries that I read around that time might also be a Marvel Knights but they don't list it on the wiki page so maybe not. I also recall buying a Bullseye miniseries in collected form at some point, again, not sure if it was part of the Marvel Knights line or not. I never did get around to reading it but I think I must still have it around here somewhere as I don't recall getting rid of it. The MoKF was all right, a bit up and down but enough good parts that I was glad to have read it. The Moench/Gulacy MoKF series was under the MAX imprint at Marvel, not Marvel Knights. MAX was their explicit brad and had higher levels of graphic violence (and sometimes other "adult" content. -M
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 15, 2024 20:20:22 GMT -5
I was never a huge Marvel lover when I was really getting back into comics at the time but Marvel Knights got my attention.
Having Paul Jenkins and Garth Ennis come over from Vertigo and getting Kevin Smith into comics was perfect timing for me to dip my toes into the Marvel pool.
|
|
|
Post by berkley on May 15, 2024 21:51:11 GMT -5
I was never a huge Marvel lover when I was really getting back into comics at the time but Marvel Knights got my attention. Having Paul Jenkins and Garth Ennis come over from Vertigo and getting Kevin Smith into comics was perfect timing for me to dip my toes into the Marvel pool.
I think it was a nice idea to try bringing in writing talent from other media even though the results were probably mixed at best. Looking at the chronology, I see that the Kevin Smith DD was one of the earliest of the Knights line, in 1998. I had been following Smith's movies right from Clerks so I was immediately curious when I heard about him writing comics, but I'm not sure now if that was a few years afterwards, when I was becoming aware again of Marvel and DC in general, or if I heard about it or happened to see it in 1998.
|
|
|
Post by rberman on May 17, 2024 10:29:40 GMT -5
I enjoyed "Black Widow: The Things They Say About Her" by Richard K Morgan, Sean Phillips, and Bill Sienkiewicz. Elements of the story found their way into the film. Bill's cover also birthed a short-lived but hilarious internet meme. The cover showed her from behind, crouched, with both buttocks and both breasts visible. An "exploitation, impossible anatomy" hue and cry went up. Sienkiewicz responded by sharing the photo he had used as reference. It was himself in that pose. Naked. Immediately a hundred parodies appeared.
|
|