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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 30, 2024 11:58:41 GMT -5
interesting... according to GCD, those 8 pagers in Dark Horse comics are issue 3 of the regular tales of the Jedi book. that's good I don't have to go find them That was definitely NOT what I was expecting!
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jun 30, 2024 12:01:32 GMT -5
My initial plan was to do Dark Empire II and Empire's End first, the go back to do Tales of the Jedi... but I had forgotten the connections between the two, so I think I'm going to (for now) stick with publication order and do Tales of the Jedi next. Gotcha. I guess it's probably good to be fairly flexible as to which order you review stuff in. Like, I kinda agree that it makes sense to do Tales of the Jedi next, since it ties in so closely with Dark Empire, but if it hadn't, then Dark Empire II would be the logical choice for next series to review I would say. Myself, I'm only familiar with the first UK Tales of the Jedi TPB, which collects the first 5-issue mini-series and the two-part "Freedon Nadd Uprising". To be honest, I was never terribly bowled over by TotJ, so this was the only stuff from that series that I ever bought. Likewise, the Droids comics never appealed to me. I believe the next thing DH published that really excited me and which I collected was Dark Empire II. One thing I just realize I forgot to ask about... see if one of you UK guys know. The letters page referenced that Tales of the Jedi would be in 'Star Wars #7-#9'... looking at Mike's I see it seems maybe a magazine size book just called 'Star Wars' that reprinted Dark Empire, with Indiana Jones as a back up and maybe some other stuff. Did that have anything different/extra in it? It seems like Tales of the Jedi maybe got delayed. because instead of it appearing right after reprinting Dark Empire they did some of the Classic Star Wars stories then put the 1st Tales of the Jedi in the (last) issue #10. chaykinstevens has already answered this fairly comprehensively. But I will just note that the UK Dark Horse Star Wars comic had Indiana Jones as a back-up strip right from the get-go, and I believe it was the "Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis" story that appeared in the first six issues. At the time, I thought that was cool because the old Marvel UK Star Wars comic had run Marvel's Further Adventures of Indiana Jones as a back-up strip throughout 1983, after which it was replaced by the Marvel adaptation of Blade Runner. There was nothing Star Wars-related in the UK Star Wars comic from Dark Horse that didn't appear in the U.S. comics.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 30, 2024 12:05:22 GMT -5
Thanks! That's what I suspected, but it's hard to be sure . I have to say, I never have read an Indiana Jones comic, while I find the movies decent, I just never felt the need to see more stories... I didn't realize how many comics existed of him!
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
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Post by Confessor on Jun 30, 2024 12:31:55 GMT -5
Thanks! That's what I suspected, but it's hard to be sure . I have to say, I never have read an Indiana Jones comic, while I find the movies decent, I just never felt the need to see more stories... I didn't realize how many comics existed of him! I'm a pretty big fan of the Marvel Indy comics, but I've not read any of the DH ones. I did a ridiculously sprawling mini review thread of the whole 34 issue run of The Further Adventures of Indiana Jones over in the "Series Overview" thread about a year back. If you're interested, you can read it here, but I'm sure you won't be.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Jun 30, 2024 12:51:43 GMT -5
My initial plan was to do Dark Empire II and Empire's End first, the go back to do Tales of the Jedi... but I had forgotten the connections between the two, so I think I'm going to (for now) stick with publication order and do Tales of the Jedi next. Gotcha. I guess it's probably good to be fairly flexible as to which order you review stuff in. Like, I kinda agree that it makes sense to do Tales of the Jedi next, since it ties in so closely with Dark Empire, but if it hadn't, then Dark Empire II would be the logical choice for next series to review I would say. Myself, I'm only familiar with the first UK Tales of the Jedi TPB, which collects the first 5-issue mini-series and the two-part "Freedon Nadd Uprising". To be honest, I was never terribly bowled over by TotJ, so this was the only stuff from that series that I ever bought. Likewise, the Droids comics never appealed to me. I believe the next thing DH published that really excited me and which I collected was Dark Empire II. One thing I just realize I forgot to ask about... see if one of you UK guys know. The letters page referenced that Tales of the Jedi would be in 'Star Wars #7-#9'... looking at Mike's I see it seems maybe a magazine size book just called 'Star Wars' that reprinted Dark Empire, with Indiana Jones as a back up and maybe some other stuff. Did that have anything different/extra in it? It seems like Tales of the Jedi maybe got delayed. because instead of it appearing right after reprinting Dark Empire they did some of the Classic Star Wars stories then put the 1st Tales of the Jedi in the (last) issue #10. chaykinstevens has already answered this fairly comprehensively. But I will just note that the UK Dark Horse Star Wars comic had Indiana Jones as a back-up strip right from the get-go, and I believe it was the "Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis" story that appeared in the first six issues. At the time, I thought that was cool because the old Marvel UK Star Wars comic had run Marvel's Further Adventures of Indiana Jones as a back-up strip throughout 1983, after which it was replaced by the Marvel adaptation of Blade Runner. There was nothing Star Wars-related in the UK Star Wars comic from Dark Horse that didn't appear in the U.S. comics. I was never a huge fan of Tales of the Jedi myself, the time period is cool but I've always been turned off by the muddy art and the over use of hugely expository narration boxes.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 30, 2024 17:07:37 GMT -5
Thanks! That's what I suspected, but it's hard to be sure . I have to say, I never have read an Indiana Jones comic, while I find the movies decent, I just never felt the need to see more stories... I didn't realize how many comics existed of him! I'm a pretty big fan of the Marvel Indy comics, but I've not read any of the DH ones. I did a ridiculously sprawling mini review thread of the whole 34 issue run of The Further Adventures of Indiana Jones over in the "Series Overview" thread about a year back. If you're interested, you can read it here, but I'm sure you won't be. I had no idea it had such well known creators... very interesting!
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Post by Duragizer on Jul 1, 2024 21:11:17 GMT -5
I'm a big TOTJ fan. Wasn't very fond of the comics during the '90s/early '00s, but they grew on me, in no small part due to how different they depict the Jedi/Sith compared to the prequels. I won't deny they have their flaws, just like Dark Empire. Still, I love the worldbuilding.
I hope you'll be covering TOTJ by publication order rather than chronological.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 1, 2024 21:13:12 GMT -5
I'm a big TOTJ fan. Wasn't very fond of the comics during the '90s/early '00s, but they grew on me, in no small part due to how different they depict the Jedi/Sith compared to the prequels. I won't deny they have their flaws, just like Dark Empire. Still, I love the worldbuilding. I hope you'll be covering TOTJ by publication order rather than chronological. Definitely publication order... not least because I don't have the later ones
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 3, 2024 9:30:58 GMT -5
Tales of the Jedi #1 Cover dated : October 1993 Issue title : Ulic Qel-Droma and the Beast Wars of Anderon Script: Tom Veitch Pencils: Chris Gossett Inks: Mike Barriero Colors: Pamela Rambo Letters: Willie Schubert Cover art Dave Dorman Overall rating: 7 out of 10 Summary : We start, as is often the case, with a training scene. There we meet the intrepid young Jedi in training Ulic Qel-Droma, along with his brother Cay and Tott Doneeta.. pupils of Master Arca. Ulic is taking on a training robot, and shows himself to be quite skilled but a bit brash and overconfident, and the robot ends up blasting him. After a quick lesson Master Arca tells his students about the planet Onderon...where, due to scary dragon-like beasts that migrated from the moon, the people developed in a walled city... tossing criminals out to die. The criminals eventually tamed the beasts and banded together, so a state of war existed on the planet, so for their first mission Ulic and his fellows are assigned to Onderon to end the war. They arrive and fly through a squad Beast Riders, who they just take the shots from and head to the palace of the 'civilized' types. At first they try to stop Tott from joining them (how is a Twi'lek... the people don't like aliens) but the Queen overrides her people's prejudices and sees all 3 jedi. The queen looks 'older than her years' (hint, hint) and is sad she didn't get a Jedi Master. Ulic smooths it over and the Jedi get introduced to her daughter just as the Beast Riders attack. The Jedi help fight them off, but not before the Princess is kidnapped! Cay and Tott want to consult Master Arca for advise, but Ulic is ready to save the princess, and off they go. The Beast Riders leave a surprise behind though... to be continued! My Thoughts : I find this to be a pefectly passable, if unremarkable start to the story. About 1/3 of the story is an info dump, but it's not a terrible one, even if it seems an awful lot like the set up of the Dragonriders of Pern (just with the dragons being the bad guys instead of 'threads') Ulic is just the sort of character people like to root for and no one is ever surprised about when he turns evil, which is fine but a bit telegraphed.... even the first time I read the story it was clear things weren't going to go well for him. Cay is the tech geek of the team, and Tott seems to exist solely so they could point on the Onderonians don't like aliens.. hopefully he'll not just be wallpaper (though since I totally forget he exists he might not do much). I LOVE this cover, and I'm not the only one as I feel like it's been used a lot. Dave Dorman has decided that light sabers are not flashlights, which is nice. All 3 young jedi have similar sabers... all yellow blades of similar design. It seems the color thing isn't really a thing here. No back matter in this one, but there is a letters page and an intro page. The intro page mentions this is a story from THE Jedi Holocron (still implying there is just the one). The new editor mentions the BBS again, and doesn't mention the fact that it took a year since Dark Empire for this to come out (that definitely didn't seem to be the plan). It is also mentioned that a Dark Empire Sequel is coming soon, and a 'Dark Lords of the Sith' series will follow this one. It nice to have normal coloring again.. this art isn't as good as Kennedy, but it's decent and certainly doesn't detract from the story. Continuity notes: Onderon is of course a very important location throughout the Tales of the Jedi comics.. this is its first mention. In 'current' times, it's also where Saw Guerra hides out. The internet tells me that these stories are sort of in the Disney canon.. they've been mentioned and told to the Jedi younglings almost as fables and cautionary tales, but not implicitly stated as facts. The old queen tries to do... something... that fails. Between that and the extra wrinkles they seem to be implying she's a dark side user, and 2 of the 3 jedi (but of course not Ulic) are suspicious of her. This timeline ('Millenia ago' in the comic, but sometime there must be a specific reference to 4000 years ago, as that seems to be what most sources quote) seems very different from the High Republic one, which makes the Jedi Order feel much younger and the Galaxy much smaller. I know we've talked about that before in talking about the TV shows, but here is a great example of how to NOT make the galaxy seem small.. this is a new, previously unexplored bit of the galaxy with a rich history we are about to learn about. I MUCH prefer this to the recent nonsense.
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Post by Duragizer on Jul 3, 2024 14:56:42 GMT -5
All 3 young jedi have similar sabers... all yellow blades of similar design. It seems the color thing isn't really a thing here. Unfortunately, this is the norm throughout the first few arcs of TOTJ. Though Dorman's cover art shows the Jedi/Sith characters with a variety of lightsaber colours and hues, green-yellow lightsabers are what're shown inside the comics until Dark Lords of the Sith.
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Post by swansong on Jul 4, 2024 6:56:16 GMT -5
I liked "Tales of the Jedi" and all the stuff. Sadly, the prequel theory and the KOTOR games were nothing like that.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 4, 2024 9:22:31 GMT -5
I liked "Tales of the Jedi" and all the stuff. Sadly, the prequel theory and the KOTOR games were nothing like that. I agree! I think Tales of the Jedi strikes the right note of having some history to the 'current events' (with its small ties to Dark Empire) without it making the Galaxy seem like just the Neighborhood (as Disney likes to do). I didn't play much of the video games past the old X-Wing and Tie Fighter ones (I've tried a couple of the others and they were just not that good). So you won't see too much commentary on those past what I find on the internet. It seems they did mention some of the characters and places, but didn't actually tie it in.
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
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Post by Confessor on Jul 4, 2024 16:17:09 GMT -5
Tales of the Jedi #1 Cover dated : October 1993 Issue title : Ulic Qel-Droma and the Beast Wars of Anderon Script: Tom Veitch Pencils: Chris Gossett Inks: Mike Barriero Colors: Pamela Rambo Letters: Willie Schubert Cover art Dave Dorman Overall rating: 7 out of 10 The first thing to mention is that I'd forgotten that this mini-series was written by Tom Veitch. I guess that accounts for the amount of TotJ worldbuilding that we saw in Dark Empire. Anyway, yeah…that fact had completely slipped my mind, but then I guess I probably haven't read these comics since the late '90s. We start, as is often the case, with a training scene. There we meet the intrepid young Jedi in training Ulic Qel-Droma, along with his brother Cay and Tott Doneeta.. pupils of Master Arca. Ulic is taking on a training robot, and shows himself to be quite skilled but a bit brash and overconfident, and the robot ends up blasting him. As a little aside, I always thought that the training droid Ulic Qel-Droma is seen battling here had a somewhat similar design to FE-9Q from the early issues of Marvel's old Star Wars comic. I always figured that was a deliberate homage on Chris Gossett's part and quite a nice touch (though it may not have been deliberate, of course). Here's FE-9Q, with her owner Jim the Starkiller Kid, for comparison… After a quick lesson Master Arca tells his students about the planet Onderon...where, due to scary dragon-like beasts that migrated from the moon, the people developed in a walled city... tossing criminals out to die. Shades of Mega City One from Judge Dredd, where they exiled their worst criminals and mutants to the Cursed Earth. The Jedi help fight them off, but not before the Princess is kidnapped! Having the Princess kidnapped and having the trio of young heroes attempt to rescue her is reminiscent of elements of Star Wars – Episode IV: A New Hope. I find this to be a pefectly passable, if unremarkable start to the story. About 1/3 of the story is an info dump, but it's not a terrible one… I agree, except to say that this issue does have me hooked enough to want to read the next one. I remember pretty much nothing of the plot of this mini-series, so it's going to be interesting re-reading along with your reviews. I was never terribly impressed with TofJ at the time, I must say – hence why I haven't re-read this since the late '90s – but I actually enjoyed re-reading this first instalment way more than I was expecting to. It's better than I remembered it, even if it's not exactly blowing me away either. Ulic is just the sort of character people like to root for and no one is ever surprised about when he turns evil, which is fine but a bit telegraphed.... even the first time I read the story it was clear things weren't going to go well for him. Cay is the tech geek of the team, and Tott seems to exist solely so they could point on the Onderonians don't like aliens.. hopefully he'll not just be wallpaper (though since I totally forget he exists he might not do much). A serious criticism of this first issue would be that so much of it was an 'info dump' and was concerned with establishing the story, that there was barely any time to get into characterisation of the three young Jedi. Cay Qel-Droma and Tott Doneeta seem utterly characterless at this early stage, other than Doneeta is a bit grumpy and Cay is more cautious that his brother. As for Ulic – Hey, man…spoilers!! – I don't remember him turning evil! That doesn't happen in this mini-series or The Freedon Nadd Uprising, right? I guess this must happen in a later story arc. If I'm wrong about that, then I'd forgotten more than I thought about these first couple of TotJ mini-series. …and a 'Dark Lords of the Sith' series will follow this one. I thought The Freedon Nadd Uprising came after this first mini-series??? With Dark Lords of the Sith being the third story. It nice to have normal coloring again.. this art isn't as good as Kennedy, but it's decent and certainly doesn't detract from the story. On balance, I agree that the art isn't as good as Cam Kennedy's, but Gossett's artwork has a slightly '90s indie comic aesthetic to it, which I really like. It's also quite nicely detailed and is easy to follow panel-to-panel. It's pretty good stuff, overall. It's more traditional comic book art than Kennedy's, as you say, and Pamela Rambo's colouring is much more realistic and less stylised too. On a related matter, I always thought that the young Jedi's ship, the Nebulon Ranger, had a really cool, but rather unorthodox ship design. I like that the ships here don't look like the ones we'd seen during the era of the Empire. This timeline ('Millenia ago' in the comic, but sometime there must be a specific reference to 4000 years ago, as that seems to be what most sources quote) seems very different from the High Republic one, which makes the Jedi Order feel much younger and the Galaxy much smaller. I know we've talked about that before in talking about the TV shows, but here is a great example of how to NOT make the galaxy seem small.. this is a new, previously unexplored bit of the galaxy with a rich history we are about to learn about. I agree wholeheartedly. I think the thing I liked best about the whole Tales of the Jedi setting is that it was the first Star Wars comic to not have been tied to the Star Wars films and their central characters. It opened up a lot of story possibilities. Back when I first read this mini-series in 1993, it felt simultaneously liberating and intriguingly exotic in the way it introduced us to a slew of new characters from a time period many thousands of years before the original trilogy. That said, the unfamiliar setting has its drawbacks, and I can vividly recall wishing that this series had instead been set just prior to the rise of the Empire and had focused on Obi-Wan and Anakin et al. I'm sure Lucasfilm would've torpedoed that idea if it had ever been proposed, but those were my thoughts at the time.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 4, 2024 19:52:14 GMT -5
Heh... its not actually a spoiler, as Veitch himself tells us that's what happens in the back matter of Dark Empire . I honestly remember very little as well... I vaguely remember some of the later bits not the plot here.
It could go either way with the Droid... it definitely COULD be intentional, but of course there's only so many ways to design a humanoid droid.
The Freedon Nadd Uprising is next... it's hardly it's own series though.. just 2 issues. I mean, I guess it is, but I always thought it should have just been a one show special. This original series also switches gears at some point to Naomi Sunrider, so it's really two series in one.
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Post by swansong on Jul 5, 2024 3:17:09 GMT -5
I liked "Tales of the Jedi" and all the stuff. Sadly, the prequel theory and the KOTOR games were nothing like that. I agree! I think Tales of the Jedi strikes the right note of having some history to the 'current events' (with its small ties to Dark Empire) without it making the Galaxy seem like just the Neighborhood (as Disney likes to do). I didn't play much of the video games past the old X-Wing and Tie Fighter ones (I've tried a couple of the others and they were just not that good). So you won't see too much commentary on those past what I find on the internet. It seems they did mention some of the characters and places, but didn't actually tie it in. In the KOTOR games they take these comics as background (Exar Kun war, Sunrider... ) but squeeze some other war with the Sith inside, like 80 years later and reference some of the stuff. But thing is, aesthetics wise and all that, its clearly based on the prequel design and feel (with some touches of the original movies). For commercial reasons I can understand that. But it was still a boring take and did not fit together. When it comes to Star Wars, you seem to have like three different takes: a) Star Wars as Space Opera/Planetary Romance (OT George Lucas) b) Star Wars as some sort of fantasy (Dark Empire, TOTJ, early EU by Anderson...) and c) Star Wars as real scifi (PT George Lucas, Timothy Zahn...). b) is mostly dead, I think.
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