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Post by swansong on Jul 12, 2024 6:38:14 GMT -5
He's writing the books though... I don't have them right in front of me, but I'm pretty sure it says he's writing Sith Doctrine no? IT says he's finished the 'Book of Anger' and I mean really, this is all just splitting hairs, but I enjoy doing so He was composing The Dark Side Compendium. He had two volumes completed, The Book of Anger and The Weakness of Inferiors, with a third, The Creation of Monsters, in unfinished manuscript form. Obviously, these got retconned into Sith writings later, but there's no mention of the Sith in the endnotes themselves. Palpatine's characterized as an independent dark side mage at this point in time. I hope its also available as ebook.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 12, 2024 7:01:28 GMT -5
heh.... probably not... it would fry the tablet with force lightning.
I don't have the end notes in front of me, but I believe you... it may well be that I equate Sith to dark side force user.
I got to the point in Heir to the Empire where we get the first Noguri interaction... they don't think they are Sith.. they say Vader 'saved' them after wreckage of a space battle ruined their planet. Greg Pak did a similar thing in the most recent comic... they don't call themselves Sith, they just see Vader has their savior... two very different things.
Incidently, this is the first time I recall they mention Leia as 'Lady Vader', which comes into play at various times in various bits of continuity.
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
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Post by Confessor on Jul 12, 2024 8:50:54 GMT -5
heh.... probably not... it would fry the tablet with force lightning. I don't have the end notes in front of me, but I believe you... it may well be that I equate Sith to dark side force user. I got to the point in Heir to the Empire where we get the first Noguri interaction... they don't think they are Sith.. they say Vader 'saved' them after wreckage of a space battle ruined their planet. Greg Pak did a similar thing in the most recent comic... they don't call themselves Sith, they just see Vader has their savior... two very different things. Incidently, this is the first time I recall they mention Leia as 'Lady Vader', which comes into play at various times in various bits of continuity. I found the Noghri's relationship with Vader and subsequently with Leia "Lady Vader" Organa Solo fascinating. Especially as their view of Vader as their saviour was built on a lie and Imperial propaganda, while the Empire continued to poison their planet.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 12, 2024 8:54:27 GMT -5
I also remember it was really an interesting part of Thrawn's character that he didn't do anything to maintain their loyalty... he just took it for granted, almost like they were like the Ysmalri.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 12, 2024 20:09:58 GMT -5
Hoping to do the next review tonight.... in the meantime.... I filled in a few holes for the future with Mile High's 65% sale.. came out under 3 bucks an issue (the prices are pre-discount)
Apparently, #60 of the regular series is a bit expensive, but that's quite a ways away.
STAR WARS (1998) (#0-83) (DARK HORSE) #57 1 Good @ 10.50 10.50 STAR WARS (1998) (#0-83) (DARK HORSE) #58 1 Good @ 8.75 8.75 STAR WARS (1998) (#0-83) (DARK HORSE) #59 1 Good @ 8.75 8.75 STAR WARS (1998) (#0-83) (DARK HORSE) #61 1 Good @ 8.75 8.75 STAR WARS (1998) (#0-83) (DARK HORSE) #62 1 V'Good @ 13.25 13.25 STAR WARS TALES OF THE JEDI: GOLDEN AGE OF THE SITH #1 1 V'Good @ 5.25 5.25 STAR WARS TALES OF THE JEDI: GOLDEN AGE OF THE SITH #2 1 V'Good @ 5.25 5.25 STAR WARS TALES OF THE JEDI: GOLDEN AGE OF THE SITH #3 1 Fine @ 10.00 10.00 STAR WARS TALES OF THE JEDI: SITH WAR #41 V'Good @ 8.00 8.00 STAR WARS: DROIDS (1994) (#1-6) (DARK HORSE) #4 1 V'Good @ 5.00 5.00 STAR WARS: DROIDS (1994) (#1-6) (DARK HORSE) #5 1 Fine @ 10.00 10.00 STAR WARS: DROIDS (1994) (#1-6) (DARK HORSE) #6 1 V'Good @ 5.25 5.25 STAR WARS: DROIDS (1995) (#1-8) (DARK HORSE) #3 1 V'Good @ 5.25 5.25 STAR WARS: DROIDS (1995) (#1-8) (DARK HORSE) #5 1 V'Good @ 5.25 5.25 STAR WARS: DROIDS (1995) (#1-8) (DARK HORSE) #6 1 V'Good @ 5.25 5.25 STAR WARS: DROIDS (1995) (#1-8) (DARK HORSE) #7 1 V'Good @ 5.25 5.25 STAR WARS: DROIDS (1995) (#1-8) (DARK HORSE) #8 1 V'Good @ 5.25 5.25 STAR WARS: PROTOCOL OFFENSIVE (1997) #1 1 V'Good @ 7.75 7.75 STAR WARS: REDEMPTION OF ULIC QEL-DROMA #1 1 Fine @ 15.00 15.00 STAR WARS: REDEMPTION OF ULIC QEL-DROMA #2 1 V'Good @ 10.50 10.50 STAR WARS: REDEMPTION OF ULIC QEL-DROMA #3 1 Good @ 7.00 7.00 STAR WARS: REDEMPTION OF ULIC QEL-DROMA #4 1 Good @ 5.25 5.25 STAR WARS: REDEMPTION OF ULIC QEL-DROMA #5 1 V'Good @ 8.00 8.00
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 12, 2024 20:47:19 GMT -5
Finished up Heir to the Empire...my official review is in the book thread if anyone is interested. It was great fun to re-read!
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Post by Duragizer on Jul 13, 2024 0:57:48 GMT -5
I don't have the end notes in front of me, but I believe you... it may well be that I equate Sith to dark side force user. Totally understandable. I think since the release of the prequels and the subsequent preoccupation with the various & sundry Sith conflicts in the EU, it's become especially hard for a lot of folks to wrap their heads around the idea of a powerful darksider not being a Sith or for Sith to be subservient to non-Sith, even if they don't particularly like the prequels. Lucas' revisionism is insidious that way.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 13, 2024 10:12:13 GMT -5
So, funny story.... I decided to take advantage of my (very small) stock bonus I get at work while the price is high to get a much needed new laptop (my current one has a cracked case that only works if you get the plug just so, and a keyboard where the 'r' the 4 and the 5 dont work). Apparently, the old laptop, sensing its demise, decided to commit sepuku... last night when I sat down to right my next review it collaborated with the cat to jump off my lap, the (very short) drop apparently shook it just enough to knock the wifi card off. So what I have here is an ancient Samsung branded Chromebook which DOES have a functional keypboard but maybe 5% of the monitor pixels are dead. At least until my shiny new one comes Wednesday. Bottom line, I apologize if this review is a bit wonky format wise
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 13, 2024 11:15:06 GMT -5
Tales of the Jedi #3 script:: Tom Veitch Art: : Janine Johnston Technical Art Assist : John Nadeau Letters: Willie Schubert [/b] Colors: Pamela Rambo Cover Art : Dave Dorman Title: The Saga of Nomi Sunrider Date: `December 1993 Rating: 5 of 10 Plot: This is completely unrelated to the previous two issues (For now...) The front text crawler imply the Jedi Holocron had lots of different stories for us.. though my memory tells me otherwise, but we'll see. Here we have young Jedi Andur Sunrider, his young, force-sensitve wife Nomi, and their child Vima. They are going on a trip to find Jedi Master Thon, who Andur is hoping will train him in the finer points of Jedi lore so he can be Master to is daughter, who he expects will be a great Jedi. He also want's Nomi to be trained, be she says she's too gentle for such things and isn't interested. That stop at a 'jump gate' and it gets out that they have some special crystals for lightsabers with them (a present for Master Thon) and a bunch of thugs attack... killing Andur. Nomi rises to the challenge and dispatches the theives with Andur's lightsaber, and continues the journey. She finds the planet of their destination very barren and desert-like.. so much so their trusty droid says he has to stay on the ship. As Nomi finds a Jedi and his ranch... the bad guys (part of the Hutt crime family) have pursued, and attack the ship. They follow and the Jedi tried to fight them off with Nomi, only to be saved by the Jedi's mount: That's no beast though, that's actually Master Thon... to be continued! My thoughts: Pretty basic plot, but a perfectly good set up for Nomi's story. The arts goes the Star Trek alien route with Nomi and she's very human but with a weird hairline, while the Jedi she finds is the standard Trek 'humanoid with bumps on their head'. On the other hand, Master Thon is AWESOME. I love that dicotomy between him raging like a ferocious beast against his enemies, but then you have him in repose at the end of the story: Otherwise, the art is pretty uninspired... decent I guess, but nothing to write home about. It annoys me that Nomi hair is the wrong color on the cover, since her having flaming red her is a thing, not to mention all the other colors are wrong (her clothes... Andur's hair, the babys blanket, etc) Continuity notes: We get quite a bit that's different back in this era than we see later. Clearly, Jedi can be married here... and there is far less regulation on who gets trained. In fact, don't they usually say it's dangerous for a Force-sensitive child not to be trained? Like, that's the excuse for Jedi kind of kidnapping kids from their parents in the Disney era. Here, that's all fine (though you could imagine Andur helping Nomi with control even without specific Jedi training). There's also a bit about Hyperspace travel... that there a beacons that indicate the well used paths, and while not exactly Bablyon 5 style actual gates, these beacons call for a station and commerce. That is the basis of alot of plot of the High Republic stories as well, but this is THOUSANDS of years ago, while that is supposed to be a couple hundred, so the lack of progress there, compared to the massive progress between that and the movies, it massively inconsistent and illogical. In my head, High Republic is FAR longer ago which is was supposed to be at first, but then they made it more recent so they could have a Yoda cameo, which is super dumb) We've discussed the crystals before, and that is re-inforced here.. that they are just crystals, and come from different planets.. with some being better than others. Clearly, they also have other uses, since the Hutt crime lord is probably looking for cash value and not the building of a few Lightsabers. The letters are back... they mention the upcoming Droids miniseries (which I'll do eventually), which started in Dark Horse Presents (they eventually re-packaged those in their own book) as a preview, I guess.. which I think they did with this issue as well. Vima, of course, is allegedly the same Jedi that Leia interacts with in Dark Empire... the letters page specifically says so and refers to her as 'Vima Sunrider'.. so I guess she is a pretty good jedi to live like 4000 years. [/b]
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Post by Duragizer on Jul 14, 2024 17:28:07 GMT -5
This issue didn't leave much of an impression on me. Like, I know Andur dies here. Aside from that, I have difficulty ever remembering the finer details, and I've read it a few times now. Doesn't help that David Roach handles the art on the remaining issues in this arc, which is leaps and bounds beyond the artwork presented here.
If you're annoyed by the inconsistent depiction of Nomi's hair here, prepare yourself, because it's gonna get worse before it gets better.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 18, 2024 21:44:57 GMT -5
Tales of the Jedi #4 script:: Tom Veitch Art: : David Roach Letters: Willie Schubert Colors: Pamela Rambo Cover Art : Dave Dorman Title: The Saga of Nomi Sunrider, Part II Date: January 1994 Rating: 7 of 10 Plot : Several months after her arrival, Nomi is still just chilling on Ambria (this issue Veitch seems to have remembered he has to name stuff, and does so with gusto). Vima is playing with some lizards that remind me a lot of the ones in another Dark Horse comic about a Jaxxon-rip off character: When Vima goes too close to the dark side pool and Nomi has to use 'Jedi Battle Meditation' on some much bigger lizards. Apparently, this is like the 'These are not the droids you're looking for' trick, but MUCH stronger, as the two lizards decide to fight each other instead of eating Vima. Interestingly, Luke does this in 'Heir to the Empire', but feels like it's Dark Side-y, and then refuses to use it again. While C'boath uses what seems like an opposite power (but in reality is still mind control, so probably still bad) to help Thrawn's fighters be extra co-ordinated. Anyway, I digress. Nomi apparently hasn't been trained at all by Master Thon, and is rather afraid of him. Oss Willum (Master Thon's other apprentice, who also gets a name) is reassuring her when Master Arca and the crew from the first two issues turn up and ask Master Thon's help with the Freedon Nadd uprising. Thon agrees to send Oss Willum along, and actually starts training Nomi. She tells him she will never use a lightsaber(the next issue cover begs to differ) but Thon tells her it's her destiny. As they go off on their training trip, Nomi asks the droid to tell her husband's old master if anything happens to her (as if Thon is going to eat her or something), and off they go. Meanwhile, the action in the story also serves as some nice establishing of a new region of the Galaxy. We learn we are in the 'Stenness Node' and the 'Nessies' are miners that use these awesome ships made of hollowed out giant insects to mine.. and that the Hutt that tried to steal Nomi's crystals and killed her husband (The Great Bogga) is in charge. We see some pirates try to raid one of said ships, and Bogga stops them... he then punishes the pirate captain by forcing him to go to Ambria to kill master Thon. The pirate (captain Finhead) refuses at first, but after Bogga kills his first mate he agrees. To be continued! My thoughts: There are definitely a few issues here if you're paying attention to details, and I absolutely HATE that our Jedi hero is scared of the beastly Jedi Master (I guess because she's just a gentle girl), but otherwise we have some good story here that both tells its own story and keeps us posted on what's going on with Ulic and company. The location gets used a few times later in the EU, so for the first time we get something that lasts outside these series! I like the set up here, as it seems like a good way to lead into a series of adventures for Nomi, while still keeping us posted on what going on in Onderon. I don't remember if that's exactly what happens in the next series but it feels like it could! I like David Roach a lot better than the previous artist, but he gets a little carried away with the visual shout outs. There's a guard in what is very similar to Leia's slave girl outfit. Which is fun, if a little silly. Vima playing with a stuffed Ewok is a bit much, though. I'll admit it made me chuckle though, and I guess from a continuity stand point, they do find an old Jedi Temple on Endor at some point if I recall, so I'll allow it. It IS a bit jarring, though. Continuity Notes: It's official... awesome cover artist Dave Dorman clearly is just told what to draw, and doesn't get any reference, or care to match the inside. The scene on the cover does indeed happen in the story, but the Hutt there is clearly modelled after Jabba and not really what Bogga looks like... the guard beast is an alligator instead of a lizard, and Capt ain Finbone looks nothing like what he does inside. The saga of Nomi's hair continues... she is a brunette now, and has a very normal, human, 90s style. Though it seems to be on purpose, as there is a flashback that show her weird alien do from the last issue (its in greyscale to show it's a flashback, so no color). She definitely is much more human looking in general. We also find out that while Andria is out of the way, its not totally isolated, they mention it takes 'months' to get the parts to repair the droid, but clearly that did get those parts, and Nomi and Vima have new clothes. I guess Andur just didn't do enough research before the trip to know that it was a Hutt controlled system. ...and that seems a bit contradictory. The flashback seems to be intended to point out that Andur was a good Jedi Knight (even though it was killed by some random Hutt thugs)... it didn't really do the job though. In regard to our previous discussions, Master Arca mentions they are fighting the Dark Lords of the Sith (yes, it's plural). There is a letters page back in this one, and one of the letter writers says something about there are supposed to be 12 of them and Vader is the 12th? Sounds biblical, and the sort of thing Lucas might do.. does that exist somewhere besides this letter writer's mind? The letters are all positive (gushingly so) and mostly involve fans begging for issues they missed. It does confirm that the Dark Force presents previews are just that... and don't contain anything that wasn't in the issues here. There is also apparently a preview issue other there, that is simply a photocopy of the proofs of issue one that was given out to generate buzz, so nothing we are missing it seems. (whew!)
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Post by Duragizer on Jul 18, 2024 23:41:46 GMT -5
In regard to our previous discussions, Master Arca mentions they are fighting the Dark Lords of the Sith (yes, it's plural). There is a letters page back in this one, and one of the letter writers says something about there are supposed to be 12 of them and Vader is the 12th? Sounds biblical, and the sort of thing Lucas might do.. does that exist somewhere besides this letter writer's mind? IIRC, in the third draft to the original movie, mention is made that the Jedi Order was founded by the Skywalker, who taught his twelve sons the secrets of the Force, who taught their sons, ad infinitum. The Sith, on the other had, were pirates who learned the dark side from the fallen Jedi Seig Darklighter.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jul 19, 2024 21:35:16 GMT -5
In regard to our previous discussions, Master Arca mentions they are fighting the Dark Lords of the Sith (yes, it's plural). There is a letters page back in this one, and one of the letter writers says something about there are supposed to be 12 of them and Vader is the 12th? Sounds biblical, and the sort of thing Lucas might do.. does that exist somewhere besides this letter writer's mind? IIRC, in the third draft to the original movie, mention is made that the Jedi Order was founded by the Skywalker, who taught his twelve sons the secrets of the Force, who taught their sons, ad infinitum. The Sith, on the other had, were pirates who learned the dark side from the fallen Jedi Seig Darklighter. Not sure of the exact details but that is broadly correct for a draft of the film....might have been the third. They kind of blend together, for me. That also demonstrates the influence of the Lensman Saga, as the series revolves heavily around the Kinnison family, first with Kim Kinnison, then his children, while the bad guys are the Boskone pirates, with the Good Guys being the end result of the Arisian efforts and the Boskone being the end result of the Edorians, who opposed them. These same concepts influenced the Vorlons and the Shadows, in Babylon 5, as well as the Rangers. The Rangers kind of stand in for the Galactic Patrol, once the Interstellar Alliance is formed. There was a lot of mining of material from discarded drafts, both by Lucasfilm and licensees. Marvel did a bit of that, based on things Lucas said in interviews, about background details, as well as material provided to them, by Lucasfilm.
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Post by chaykinstevens on Jul 20, 2024 6:31:57 GMT -5
Tales of the Jedi #3script:: Tom Veitch Art: : Janine Johnston Technical Art Assist : John Nadeau Letters: Willie Schubert Colors: Pamela Rambo Cover Art: Dave Dorman Title: The Saga of Nomi Sunrider Date: `December 1993 Rating: 5 of 10 Plot: This is completely unrelated to the previous two issues (For now...) The front text crawler imply the Jedi Holocron had lots of different stories for us.. though my memory tells me otherwise, but we'll see. The story in this issue reprinted three eight-pagers from Dark Horse Comics #7-9, cover dated February to April 1993. GCD says, "The art has been re-colored with a more subdued palette, re-lettered, and spaceships and other machinery have been redrawn extensively by John Nadeau."
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 23, 2024 11:14:18 GMT -5
Tales of the Jedi #5 script:: Tom Veitch Art: : David Roach Letters: Willie Schubert Colors: Pamela Rambo Cover Art : Dave Dorman Title: The Saga of Nomi Sunrider, Part III Date: February 1994 Rating: 5 of 10 Plot: We pick up seconds after the end of issue #4... with Bogga's beastie eating Captain Stonebone's first mate and Bogga laying of the deal... go kill Master Thon, get the crystals, and come back once a year to 'visit' with 'gifts'. Back on Andria, Thon talks to Nomi about the force, then they watch a retelling of the the first Dark Jedi (not mention of Sith here) from the Holocron. As they are watching, Captain Stonebone attacks At first, Nomi refused to take up Master Thon's lightsaber and fight, running and hiding while Thon just meekly surrenders. Just before they load their prisoner on the ship, Nomi feels bad and uses her Battle Meditation trick to get the pirates attacking each other, then charges in and frees Master Thon, where they finish the job. Nomi has apparently made peace with being a Jedi after a lot of whining... to be continued! (But not in this series...) My Notes: This is a very strange ending point for a mini series... I wonder why they decided to make them continuing minis instead of just an ongoing 'Tales of the Jedi' series (which is essentially what it was). I guess for breaks/lead time? It does take 6 months for the Freedon Nadd Uprising to come out, but once it does the next one 'Dark Lords of the Sith' follows immediately. It's a bit odd. I really like Master Thon... Star Wars needs more characters like him...I wish Disney went to some of this source material instead of their 'no one is REALLY good' High Republic nonsense, but I digress. While a don't mind a good reluctant hero, Veitch overdoes it with Nomi to the point of it gives off 'I'm just a girl I can't...' with is not good. Especially since we all know (they've been beating it into us the whole series) that she becomes a great Jedi eventually. Continuity Notes:: The Sage of Nomi's hair continues... apparently David Roach is a Spawn fan, as her hair is now doing MacFarlane-cape things: In a very odd throwaway line, the pirates mention Master Thon was bound by 'Mandalorian Manacles', so even this far back in the EU it was (sort of) planned that they would be the armorers of the galaxy. It's funny, I never really thought that was the thing for Boba Fett back in the day... I though the armor was more like an Iron Man suit... it had missiles and a jetpack and grappling hooks and probably 20 other gadgets... the actual armor was never the part I thought about. The cover, of course, is once again off in the details. Nomi has red hair, a tank top, cape and pants on the cover, which she is never in during the issue, she's in the same skirt/crop top combo that she acquired last issue. No gear either (where the cover shows a belt and some things attached) No letters here, instead a one page text piece promoting the upcoming Freedon Nadd Uprising series. It mentions that Oss Villum is helping the Jedi from the first series on Onderon helping the Queen fend off the Naddist cult uprising. Its not clear if the Dark Jedi in the Holocron's history less is mean to be Freedon Nadd or not... it would make sense that is was, but it isn't stated. I think I'm going to stick with Tales of the Jedi for that and the Dark Lords of the Sith that follows right after before going back to Dark Empire II and Empire's End (Dark Empire II is pubished at about the same time). There's also a couple Droids series that we'll do after all that... then Dark Horse gets serious about glutting the market and I'll have to do some evaluating and or shopping
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