|
|
Post by Cei-U! on Jul 19, 2024 13:39:12 GMT -5
The '80s is not my favorite era of Superman, either pre- or post-Crisis, and the only titles featuring the Big Red S that I actively collected were DC Comics Presents, World's Finest, and Justice League. In fact, I've gone on record as fervently disliking the Wolfman-Kane collaboration on Supes. But I'm always interested in what others have to say--I even occasionally change my mind as the result of a persuasive argument--so I'll be watching this thread. Good luck!
Cei-U!
I summon the Action Ace, Metropolis Marvel, Last Son of Krypton, etc., etc.!
|
|
|
|
Post by nairb73 on Jul 19, 2024 14:28:04 GMT -5
The '80s is not my favorite era of Superman, either pre- or post-Crisis, and the only titles featuring the Big Red S that I actively collected were DC Comics Presents, World's Finest, and Justice League. In fact, I've gone on record as fervently disliking the Wolfman-Kane collaboration on Supes. But I'm always interested in what others have to say--I even occasionally change my mind as the result of a persuasive argument--so I'll be watching this thread. Good luck! Cei-U! I summon the Action Ace, Metropolis Marvel, Last Son of Krypton, etc., etc.! Excluding the above 'excluded' books, my favorite 'Bronze Age Superman' stuff was by Marty Pasko, who will show up, although he was being phased out around this era. |
|
|
|
Post by Cei-U! on Jul 19, 2024 17:30:01 GMT -5
The '80s is not my favorite era of Superman, either pre- or post-Crisis, and the only titles featuring the Big Red S that I actively collected were DC Comics Presents, World's Finest, and Justice League. In fact, I've gone on record as fervently disliking the Wolfman-Kane collaboration on Supes. But I'm always interested in what others have to say--I even occasionally change my mind as the result of a persuasive argument--so I'll be watching this thread. Good luck! Cei-U! I summon the Action Ace, Metropolis Marvel, Last Son of Krypton, etc., etc.! Excluding the above 'excluded' books, my favorite 'Bronze Age Superman' stuff was by Marty Pasko, who will show up, although he was being phased out around this era. Pasko and Len Wein were the best of the era's Superman writers, in my opinion. Marty's handling of Lana Lang was particularly noteworthy.
Cei-U! I summon the Super-Scripters!
|
|
|
|
Post by nairb73 on Jul 19, 2024 17:49:59 GMT -5
Excluding the above 'excluded' books, my favorite 'Bronze Age Superman' stuff was by Marty Pasko, who will show up, although he was being phased out around this era. Pasko and Len Wein were the best of the era's Superman writers, in my opinion. Marty's handling of Lana Lang was particularly noteworthy.
Cei-U! I summon the Super-Scripters!
He wrote a really good issue-ending scene(circa 1978/79) where Superman called her out on her jealousy, and just left her alone. Cary Bates, as far as I was concerned, never gave Lana as much depth as Pasko did. Just having her say 'Luv' in every other panel didn't cut it. |
|
|
|
Post by chadwilliam on Jul 19, 2024 23:44:49 GMT -5
 Superman #343 Story: "The Last Days of Metropolis!" Writer: Denny O'Neil Penciler: Curt Swan Inker: Frank Chiaramonte The legendary introduction of Moximus the Magician! Looking at the cover, I was expecting Superman to fight Maxie Zeus in this issue – funnily enough, the story was written by Denny O'Neil, who I think introduced the character a few months before as a serious threat to Batman. I don't know, but by the late 70s and early 80s, Denny O'Neil – if my memory serves me well – produced a lot of questionable stories. I remember the "Great Gotham Kangaroo Race" or something, which seemed more like a lost bet turned in and then unexpectedly approved as a story. Denny O'Neil is on record not liking Superman very much. His Sandman saga – which is another one of those "soft reboots" of the Superman titles, this time in the early 70s, is in general widely revered. Of course, like many writers, the first step is to depower Superman. Overall, I think O'Neil's reputation is a little bit too high – the good stories from the "new darker and realistic" Batman are more courtesy of Neal Adams and writers like Frank Robbins. So, long talk about O’Neil – why? Well, this is the sort of story where there is not much to write home about. Moximus the magician is in Pompeii and has a vision of the famous volcano business – no one believes him – and a vision of Superman – who he thinks is some sort of evil spirit. His magic fails to save the city, so he uses a spell to hibernate! In 1979, Lewis Lang (yes, the father, an archaeologist) is digging out the ruins. Lois Lane is also there. Of course, with the relics on board a ship, the sorcerer breaks out, cannot control his powers, and suddenly everything is burning! Superman appears and saves the ship! The magician faces our hero and declares him to be evil because he was not born on Earth or something, as he can see – so he takes control of an experimental rocket – Superman flies in – but is trapped inside the rocket by the sorcerer! But Superman manages to break free – he confronts the sorcerer – who suddenly declares that he does not see Superman as evil anymore – why? I don't know – he vanishes and suddenly decides it's time to fight Batman! If he ever did, I don't know… As you can see from my stream of thought summary – this story is just a bunch of nonsense. Was Denny O'Neil just phoning this in or in a serious midlife crisis and just having read a book about Classical antiquity (Maxie Zeus, remember)? Curt Swan's art is always good – that goes without saying – but as often, Chiaramonte’s inks don't do him justice. Overall – crap. 1.5/5 What a way to start a thread. Maxie Zeus debuted in Detective Comics #483 which has a cover date of May 1979 so you're right in thinking that Superman #343 followed soon after. Why O'Neil should conclude this issue by setting another villain based out of antiquity up against Batman so soon after that issue of Tec is beyond me - especially in a Superman comic.
Was Denny O'Neil just phoning this in or in a serious midlife crisis and just having read a book about Classical antiquity?
I suspect that it was simply a matter of him realizing that 1979 marked the 1900th anniversary of the destruction of Pompeii and decided that writing a story around that fact was a nice little bit of synchronicity.
Well, this is the sort of story where there is not much to write home about.
Too bad, since I thought this one actually started off promising enough. Moximus is clearly introduced as a analogue for Jor-El what with his "Pompeii is doomed" prediction being scoffed at by naysayers - that O'Neil's intention is to use him as an enemy for Superman rather than a kindred spirit is clever, except he does nothing with the idea and we quickly learn that Moximus is a moron. So too, is Perry White apparently. I get that writers have always had to maintain the illusion that the typical citizen of Metropolis could feel relatively at ease in our world and vice versa despite the fact that the very presence of beings such as Superman and The Spectre would force us to reconsider pretty much every law of reality, but having Perry White declare that "there is no such thing as magic, Jimmy!" right after Superman assures the reader that there is, just underscores the fact that you've got to make some concessions if you want to maintain the integrity of your characters. That O'Neil has White further proclaim, "You'll be telling me about men from other planets next!" only makes me wonder if the editor of The Daily Planet has ever read his own paper. nairb73 wrote:And, incidentally, O'Neal's use of Jimmy Olsen here is...painful.Jimmy Olsen worked best - and he worked really well - during The Silver Age as a sort of precursor to Philip J Fry - a sort of fearless scatterbrained bungler who you could count on doing something stupidly entertaining every month. Sure he was stupid, but man, he was fun. Confusing his soda drink with radioactive isotopes which would change him into Bizarro-Jimmy if swallowed, however, wasn't the sort of hi-jinks you could expect a supporting character to get up to during The Bronze Age so O'Neil has instead settled for him just being really bad at card tricks - more realistic, I suppose, but it only makes me miss Bizarro-Jimmy all the more. One final thing I noticed were all the Superman related ads in this issue - three including the inside front cover showcasing the new Corgi line of Superman vehicles, the Mego Elastic Superman figure, and a full page ad for the new Superboy comic. Hard to believe that in just half a dozen years, DC will be taking the chance with a revamp of a figure who in 1980 they still seem to consider their flagship character. |
|
|
|
Post by nairb73 on Jul 20, 2024 1:43:07 GMT -5
Superman #343 Story: "The Last Days of Metropolis!" Writer: Denny O'Neil Penciler: Curt Swan Inker: Frank Chiaramonte The legendary introduction of Moximus the Magician! Looking at the cover, I was expecting Superman to fight Maxie Zeus in this issue – funnily enough, the story was written by Denny O'Neil, who I think introduced the character a few months before as a serious threat to Batman. I don't know, but by the late 70s and early 80s, Denny O'Neil – if my memory serves me well – produced a lot of questionable stories. I remember the "Great Gotham Kangaroo Race" or something, which seemed more like a lost bet turned in and then unexpectedly approved as a story. Denny O'Neil is on record not liking Superman very much. His Sandman saga – which is another one of those "soft reboots" of the Superman titles, this time in the early 70s, is in general widely revered. Of course, like many writers, the first step is to depower Superman. Overall, I think O'Neil's reputation is a little bit too high – the good stories from the "new darker and realistic" Batman are more courtesy of Neal Adams and writers like Frank Robbins. So, long talk about O’Neil – why? Well, this is the sort of story where there is not much to write home about. Moximus the magician is in Pompeii and has a vision of the famous volcano business – no one believes him – and a vision of Superman – who he thinks is some sort of evil spirit. His magic fails to save the city, so he uses a spell to hibernate! In 1979, Lewis Lang (yes, the father, an archaeologist) is digging out the ruins. Lois Lane is also there. Of course, with the relics on board a ship, the sorcerer breaks out, cannot control his powers, and suddenly everything is burning! Superman appears and saves the ship! The magician faces our hero and declares him to be evil because he was not born on Earth or something, as he can see – so he takes control of an experimental rocket – Superman flies in – but is trapped inside the rocket by the sorcerer! But Superman manages to break free – he confronts the sorcerer – who suddenly declares that he does not see Superman as evil anymore – why? I don't know – he vanishes and suddenly decides it's time to fight Batman! If he ever did, I don't know… As you can see from my stream of thought summary – this story is just a bunch of nonsense. Was Denny O'Neil just phoning this in or in a serious midlife crisis and just having read a book about Classical antiquity (Maxie Zeus, remember)? Curt Swan's art is always good – that goes without saying – but as often, Chiaramonte’s inks don't do him justice. Overall – crap. 1.5/5 What a way to start a thread. Maxie Zeus debuted in Detective Comics #483 which has a cover date of May 1979 so you're right in thinking that Superman #343 followed soon after. Why O'Neil should conclude this issue by setting another villain based out of antiquity up against Batman so soon after that issue of Tec is beyond me - especially in a Superman comic.
Was Denny O'Neil just phoning this in or in a serious midlife crisis and just having read a book about Classical antiquity?
I suspect that it was simply a matter of him realizing that 1979 marked the 1900th anniversary of the destruction of Pompeii and decided that writing a story around that fact was a nice little bit of synchronicity.
Well, this is the sort of story where there is not much to write home about.
Too bad, since I thought this one actually started off promising enough. Moximus is clearly introduced as a analogue for Jor-El what with his "Pompeii is doomed" prediction being scoffed at by naysayers - that O'Neil's intention is to use him as an enemy for Superman rather than a kindred spirit is clever, except he does nothing with the idea and we quickly learn that Moximus is a moron. So too, is Perry White apparently. I get that writers have always had to maintain the illusion that the typical citizen of Metropolis could feel relatively at ease in our world and vice versa despite the fact that the very presence of beings such as Superman and The Spectre would force us to reconsider pretty much every law of reality, but having Perry White declare that "there is no such thing as magic, Jimmy!" right after Superman assures the reader that there is, just underscores the fact that you've got to make some concessions if you want to maintain the integrity of your characters. That O'Neil has White further proclaim, "You'll be telling me about men from other planets next!" only makes me wonder if the editor of The Daily Planet has ever read his own paper. nairb73 wrote:And, incidentally, O'Neal's use of Jimmy Olsen here is...painful.Jimmy Olsen worked best - and he worked really well - during The Silver Age as a sort of precursor to Philip J Fry - a sort of fearless scatterbrained bungler who you could count on doing something stupidly entertaining every month. Sure he was stupid, but man, he was fun. Confusing his soda drink with radioactive isotopes which would change him into Bizarro-Jimmy if swallowed, however, wasn't the sort of hi-jinks you could expect a supporting character to get up to during The Bronze Age so O'Neil has instead settled for him just being really bad at card tricks - more realistic, I suppose, but it only makes me miss Bizarro-Jimmy all the more. One final thing I noticed were all the Superman related ads in this issue - three including the inside front cover showcasing the new Corgi line of Superman vehicles, the Mego Elastic Superman figure, and a full page ad for the new Superboy comic. Hard to believe that in just half a dozen years, DC will be taking the chance with a revamp of a figure who in 1980 they still seem to consider their flagship character. Just a poor choice to have O'Neil reveal Moximus has entered the Planet offices, by...showing an apparently-impaired Jimmy performing a card trick. In 'Superman Family', he would have left the deck in the box, and hit a crook in the throat with it. At least have Moximus turn him into a goat, or something. |
|
|
|
Post by chaykinstevens on Jul 20, 2024 7:37:08 GMT -5
I don't recall the specific 'thing Perry discovered' in that story, but Maggin had Perry going to jail for not revealing his sources(at the end!), and Julie just wanted 'Magoon' to skip that sort of 'realism', and do a proper 'comic story' ending. Maggin decided his DC career could die on that hill, and went on to write a couple of barely-remembered Marvel fill-ins(something for 'Star Wars', in its trippy early days, and a Hulk story where he is captured so an alien can...collect dirt from his fingernails, and save his homeworld). Maggin stopped writing Superman, but had some lower profile credits at DC for a while, such as writing Welcome Back Kotter and Starfire. I don't recall him writing any Star Wars for Marvel, but he wrote fill-ins on Spidey Super Stories and Spectacular Spider-Man. There's a CBR feature on Maggin's Perry White story here. |
|
|
|
Post by kirby101 on Jul 20, 2024 7:52:37 GMT -5
I didn't read Superman until "What Ever Happened.." and the Byrne reboot. It became one of my favorite books, especially in the Carlin Triangle era.
Sorry Silver Age fans, before that I just found it boring.
|
|
|
|
Post by jtrw2024 on Jul 20, 2024 12:47:50 GMT -5
These 1980s Superman comics, and some from a bit earlier, are the ones I would have been reading as kid. Even though the majority of my Superman collection is from the Post-Crisis era, I do have a bunch of these which I've either had since childhood or picked up as back issues. Some of the ones I've got I haven't even read, since I often just pick up comics when I see them at cheap prices then file them away until I get a chance (or an excuse) to read them.
These are actually on my list of things I want to read soon anyway, so I'll probably make a point to grab a bunch more the next time I visit my Comic shop, and follow along with the stuff you're reviewing here.
|
|
|
|
Post by tarkintino on Jul 20, 2024 13:58:45 GMT -5
Jimmy Olsen worked best - and he worked really well - during The Silver Age as a sort of precursor to Philip J Fry - a sort of fearless scatterbrained bungler who you could count on doing something stupidly entertaining every month. Sure he was stupid, but man, he was fun How long could Stupid Jimmy last as a character in the period in question? He had been a buffoon for so long--including a title of his own--that the gimmick was worn out and antiquated, and I feel the changing readership were not anxious to see that continue. |
|
|
|
Post by nairb73 on Jul 20, 2024 14:32:54 GMT -5
Jimmy Olsen worked best - and he worked really well - during The Silver Age as a sort of precursor to Philip J Fry - a sort of fearless scatterbrained bungler who you could count on doing something stupidly entertaining every month. Sure he was stupid, but man, he was fun How long could Stupid Jimmy last as a character in the period in question? He had been a buffoon for so long--including a title of his own--that the gimmick was worn out and antiquated, and I feel the changing readership were not anxious to see that continue. 'Stupid Jimmy' went away with Mort Weisinger's retirement in 1970, so O'Neil was ignoring roughly a decade's worth of evidence to the contrary. |
|
|
|
Post by tarkintino on Jul 20, 2024 14:34:45 GMT -5
Period in question meant the time of the Olsen comic, the majority of which was published in the late Golden and through the Silver Age.
|
|
|
|
Post by chadwilliam on Jul 20, 2024 18:29:47 GMT -5
Jimmy Olsen worked best - and he worked really well - during The Silver Age as a sort of precursor to Philip J Fry - a sort of fearless scatterbrained bungler who you could count on doing something stupidly entertaining every month. Sure he was stupid, but man, he was fun How long could Stupid Jimmy last as a character in the period in question? He had been a buffoon for so long--including a title of his own--that the gimmick was worn out and antiquated, and I feel the changing readership were not anxious to see that continue. But that's just the thing - O'Neil seems to be going for wacky and zany Jimmy but wacky and zany within reason. In other words, having his cake and eat it too which isn't going to work. |
|
|
|
Post by swansong on Jul 22, 2024 3:16:24 GMT -5
I suspect that it was simply a matter of him realizing that 1979 marked the 1900th anniversary of the destruction of Pompeii and decided that writing a story around that fact was a nice little bit of synchronicity. That's a good point. Thinking about this, the title of the story "The Last Days of Metropolis" is overkill for what happens in the story. But I think it might be the case that Denny O Neil was going for something bigger, drawing parallels between Pompeii and the destruction of Metropolis, and whatver, symbolism..., I dont know, ... with Superman being the vulcano or its cataclysts... but for some reason the story ends up being a first draft - at best. On the positive side, I did not expect that much discussion about such a mundane issue! |
|
|
|
Post by swansong on Aug 14, 2024 3:55:29 GMT -5
so, folks, I am back! Don't worry, this thread hasn't been abandoned; it was just a matter of starting it right before my vacation! Not the best way to build up momentum, but now I've had time to write some reviews in advance. Since I didn't have my login, I'll be posting them at intervals now. (I don't think I can match the pace of the new Amazing Spider-Man thread!)
|
|
