Yes, there are lots of covers with 4 or 5 members featured but no Wolverine. It's also worth noting that for quite a while after Byrne takes over the interior art, the covers are mostly drawn by others. Cockrum drew many of them, but there were a few both others like Perez.

Who doesn't?

Another fine episode. I feel like Jeff downplayed Frank Miller's role. Miller was a comic book rock star at the time that mini series hit, and I don't think you can underestimate the impact that the limited series had on Wolverine's popularity and the elements that Miller brought to the story. With all due respect to Byrne, I don't think Wolverine begins a big deal without the Miller limited series. 

I don't know if you cover it in the longer cut of the podcast, but I felt like you could have spoke about Weapon X. I also felt that Wolverine #10 with the Sabretooth back story was a key issue. There's other stuff I haven't read like Old Man Logan or his origin story, but I wanted to hear about Weapon X in particular. 

Wolverine's relationship with characters like Jubilee was more complex that softening up Logan. I disliked Jubilee as a character, but she was hiding out in the X-Men's outback headquarters when the Reavers crucified Wolverine and left him for dead. She helped nurse him back to health. In many ways it was the inverse of Wolverine rushing to Kitty's aid in their miniseries. 

I couldn't understand why you guys thought Wolverine's relationship with Kitty was bad. Wolverine is a classic tragic Marvel superhero fighting to be a man instead of a beast. Relationships with people like Kitty were paramount to keeping Logan in touch with his human side. 

As far as the creatorship argument goes, I agree that the original creators deserve recognition, but it would make more sense to recognize the work of all the key figures involved in developing a character, especially if you're using their work as source material. However, I don't think the buck ends with John Byrne or Chris Claremont. Wolverine's legacy endures because other creators have carried on his stories in the three decades since Claremont left the X-Men. Presumably, that's because there's more to the character than the dissident figure on a superhero team or the anti-hero. I honestly think Wolverine works best as a tragedy. Mariko and Logan not ending up together being a perfect example. 

At some point early in the "New X-Men" era, 1975 or 76, Wolverine was shown using his claws when he was not in costume. Someone wrote in to point out this "mistake", and the reply in the letters page was, "Who ever said Wolverine wore claws?"

That was the moment that made Wolverine intriguing.

Thank you!



That's a bit of a circular logic, though. Did Wolverine gain popularity because a high profile artist came aboard, or did Marvel have the high profile artist come aboard because Wolverine was popular?

Yes.

I think you can absolutely argue that Miller also gained popularity and exposure by working on that limited series. Sure, the hard-core fans revered him because of Daredevil, but he wasn't a household name yet.




We do get into sabertooth more in the extended cut, but not Weapon X and BWS. While that work was hugely popular at the time, I'm not convinced it actually added anything to the longevity of the character, though I'm certainly open to being persuaded otherwise.



Interesting point!



You can argue that, I suppose. I don't feel that was explored much by Claremont at the time. Perhaps moreso with Jubilee (admittedly, I return to that era less frequently and don't remember it as well).



There certainly was an inherent bias in the episode in the sense that neither George, James, nor I care much for the post-Claremont x-titles. Of maybe we all agree because there is something lacking about the franchise after he leaves. Either way, if you're a big fan of Wolverine's development after Claremont, we probably let you down, there.

We spend A LOT of time on Patch in the extended cut. I do believe the thing about Claremont circumventing fan expectations on purpose. He wrote what he wanted to write. If he got sick of Superheroes, he told a fairytale or a Dracula story. When he got tired of his team, he replaced them with new characters. It was both so much of the charm and frustration of his tenure: he gave us the stories he truly wanted to read.

And yeah, the Samurai bit had to be Miller. He wrote Ronin a year later.



Been a very long time since I read it, but I remember it seeming to go out of its way not to fill in most of the blanks.