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Post by DubipR on Sept 14, 2024 19:48:49 GMT -5
When I first starting devling into the undergrounds in my late 20s, I really only knew of Crumb and Shelton. As I went down the hole, and started readin more and more from the biggies, a lot of their stories are of the times and don't relate to a new generation audience. They're very dated in its time where they belong. A lot of inside jokes about city law or whatever but got at times rather tough to read and collect for collecting sake.
Another thing that's out of my wheelhouse is army autobiographical books. Sam Glanzman or Don Lomax's comics. I've never served in the armed forces; never experienced war or any conflict in any capacity. While I read G.I. Joe growing up, it was cartoons and fun, but actually reading true conflict, its something I can't comprehend because I haven't experienced it. Charley's War, which is probably the greatest war comic written, again, being an American I couldn't get into the WWI understanding of a British solider. Its an amazing tale and worth a read but it takes a lot of time and patience to get into it.
-R
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Post by jason on Sept 14, 2024 20:10:51 GMT -5
The only romance comic I've ever read is Maison Ikkoku (ok, there was also Ah My Goddess, but not sure if that one really counts due to all of the fantasy elements). Believe it or not, I loved it, even if it was somewhat dated at points (it ran from 1980-87).
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 14, 2024 20:23:06 GMT -5
When I first starting devling into the undergrounds in my late 20s, I really only knew of Crumb and Shelton. As I went down the hole, and started readin more and more from the biggies, a lot of their stories are of the times and don't relate to a new generation audience. They're very dated in its time where they belong. A lot of inside jokes about city law or whatever but got at times rather tough to read and collect for collecting sake. Another thing that's out of my wheelhouse is army autobiographical books. Sam Glanzman or Don Lomax's comics. I've never served in the armed forces; never experienced war or any conflict in any capacity. While I read G.I. Joe growing up, it was cartoons and fun, but actually reading true conflict, its something I can't comprehend because I haven't experienced it. Charley's War, which is probably the greatest war comic written, again, being an American I couldn't get into the WWI understanding of a British solider. Its an amazing tale and worth a read but it takes a lot of time and patience to get into it. -R I'm with you on the Undergrounds, to a point, though I am old enough to have experienced the aftermath of "The 60s," and have some context (mainly through outdated Hollywood notions, on tv). Still, so much of the subject was off-putting, to me. I encountered samples in The World Encyclopedia of Comics and another reference book, from the library, around 1978-79. Dope, sex and anti-authority jokes fell flat on a small town kid, in the Midwest, with parents who were teachers, but not politically dogmatic. I was old enough to understand some of the anti-war stuff and even anti-establishment, and had some sympathies, but it was past. Plus, I could see the other side, since I was more of a neutral observer. The sex stuff wasn't erotic...just played for shock value and humor and being a virgin, was a bit lost on me. The art styles tended to the distorted and naked breasts drawn by someone who drew grotesque or extreme bodies didn't tittilate the way more "straight" artists did. Even in hormonally charged puberty. Trashman was the first to really capture my attention, when I saw the collected volume, in a comic shop, while in the military. I had been a bit of a gun and action nut, in my teens, as you could imagine, with someone who applies for a military scholarship and an interest in military history. I had been fed the Hollywood version and hadn't encountered enough unfiltered history to know better. That fed a fascination with the Executioner pulp novels. Trashman seemed to hit that vibe and I bought it, but, as I read it, I saw the subversive undercurrent. Spain had something to say beyond getting high and getting laid. At the same time, as growing boredom with the superhero genre enticed me to look at more alternatives and positive reactions with things like Dark Horse Presents led to more experimentation. That helped lead me to things like CUD and I could connect more with it and stuff like Hate. I was still a bit standoffish with the Alternative scene, though finally getting my hands on issues of Love and Rockets helped nude that. Same with finally getting my hands on an issue or two of American Splendor and the world of autobiographical comics. Still, not everyone was a Harvey Pekar. It took the film version of Ghost World to get me to actually look at Dan Clowes' stuff. I had to get past my prejudices against the art styles and the "whining," that I perceived, in my late 20s and 30s. A bit of disenchantment in my 40s helped, with that, just as disillusion from the Gulf War altered some of my political perceptions and my reception to some themes in the Undergrounds. Since then, I have found that there is a lot of good stuff in there; you just have to dig. Same as every other comic book genre. On the military stuff.......well, that was always my wheelhouse. Like I say, Hollywood fueled a lot of that and idealistic and glorified accounts of history, from the school library abetted things; but, the fascination remained, even after experience proved otherwise. I did not serve in combat, but was close enough to see the reality vs Hollywood, just from CNN coverage vs actual message traffic I read, during the Gulf War. I saw two very different wars and I could also see that in the works of Glanzman and Lomax, though they fought in two very different wars. There is still a universal truth, in both: those that survive dwell upon those who didn't and also that they fought for their buddies more than they did for ideals. Also, not everyone in command knows what the hell they are doing, especially generals. I read lots of war comics, as a kid, because of the exciting action; but, guys like Glanzman brought some reality into them and though Sgt Fury was Hollywood action, Sgt Rock was a bit more in the mode of Battleground, where you understand a little of what soldiers go through and that there isn't necessarily glory. I read some of his Haunted Tank and Fightin' Army stuff (Willy Schultz); but, A Sailor's Story just spoke to me, as a midshipman, training to be a naval officer. Don Lomax brought a grittier edge to Vietnam stories, that felt far more real than The 'Nam or things like Platoon or Full Metal Jacket. It also didn't have to answer to the Code. I get it, though, that it is not for everyone. if there is a gateway drug to "good" war comics, I would say it was Enemy Ace. The art is sheer beauty, from Joe Kubert; but the character is even more intriguing, even though Kanigher is a bit fanciful with his tales, with pilots who have gimmicks and fanciful dogfights. What is real though, is the alienation Von Hammer faces, as a born killer. He cannot take pride in his success and the only one that understands him is a wolf he encounters, while hunting in the forest. He kills because he must and so does it, but no one understands either one, except themselves.
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Post by MWGallaher on Sept 15, 2024 5:04:01 GMT -5
I was never a war comics reader, other than a couple of Sgt. Rock annuals I bought for the Dan Spiegle art and a very occasional dip into DC's 70's war comics. When I finally read DC's Sgt. Rock Archives, I absolutely loved 'em, and later ate up the Unknown Soldier, Haunted Tank, and Losers Showcase volumes. I've since read the entirety of The Losers run, so DC's war comics are no longer outside my wheelhouse. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to duplicate my satisfaction with Marvel's Sgt. Fury, which I found to be agonizingly unreadable, the very worst example of Stan Lee over-writing. He seemed to need every character in ever panel to contribute at least a paragraph of "characterizing" dialog, resulting in an unbearably wordy slow-down of what were, by contrast to DC's war comics, dull and tamed stories.
Encouraged by that experience with the DC war comics, though, I've intentionally ventured deep into a couple of categories outside my wheelhouse, and have documented the explorations here: Marvel Westerns and jungle comics. I've got the itch to find another unexplored region, but I'll tell you my first tentative foray into the long moribund genre of medical comics has been very disappointing...
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Post by driver1980 on Sept 15, 2024 5:39:56 GMT -5
but I'll tell you my first tentative foray into the long moribund genre of medical comics has been very disappointing... While I don’t know the specific titles you are referring to, I do wonder how compelling medical comics can be when compared with live-action. I am not sure some things are as compelling on the comicbook page. I mean, if it comes to fighter jets and military helicopters, I think I could gain more excitement from seeing “moving pictures”, e.g. Airwolf. I’m not sure aerial dogfights can be as interesting in a comicbook. Would firefighting be as compelling on the page, or would one rather watch 9-1-1? If I watch a medical drama, which doesn’t happen often, I’d rather watch ER or Casualty.
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Post by MWGallaher on Sept 15, 2024 8:40:12 GMT -5
but I'll tell you my first tentative foray into the long moribund genre of medical comics has been very disappointing... While I don’t know the specific titles you are referring to, I do wonder how compelling medical comics can be when compared with live-action. I am not sure some things are as compelling on the comicbook page. I mean, if it comes to fighter jets and military helicopters, I think I could gain more excitement from seeing “moving pictures”, e.g. Airwolf. I’m not sure aerial dogfights can be as interesting in a comicbook. Would firefighting be as compelling on the page, or would one rather watch 9-1-1? If I watch a medical drama, which doesn’t happen often, I’d rather watch ER or Casualty. Some that I had on my list to sample: Doctor Tom Brent, Young Intern; The Young Doctors; Dr. Kildare; The Nurses; Cynthia Doyle, Nurse In Love, Nurse Betsy Crane; Sue and Sally Smith, Flying Nurses; Linda Carter, Student Nurse; Night Nurse; Nurse Nelly; Psychoanalysis; M.D.; Romances of Nurse Helen Grant; Emergency. In the late 50's and 60's, medical tv shows were popular, so comics tried to capitalize on that, with little evident success; I don't see any medical comics that seem to have been hits. Nurse fiction was also popular with female readers: there were tons of nurse/romance paperbacks, so the comics--particularly Charlton--aimed for some of that market, too. EC had a couple of medical comics as part of their New Direction post-code line, and they were probably the low points of that attempt to survive.
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Post by Icctrombone on Sept 15, 2024 9:14:55 GMT -5
My problem with War books is that the cast usually survived at too high a rate for me to be engaged. There's too many bullets flying for it to work for me. The only book I enjoyed and still have is the Combat Kelly 9 issue series. The ending was rough and more believable.
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Post by rich on Sept 15, 2024 10:03:23 GMT -5
As an adult I've read almost all sorts of comics (bar stuff I have zero interest in, like romance). I wasn't sure how to respond. Then I realised DC comics outside of Batman and occasionally JLA are not my norm. I've rarely ever enjoyed any, but Superman for All Seasons was enjoyable!
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Post by Doghouse Reilly on Sept 15, 2024 10:39:25 GMT -5
There's very, very little of comics I like from before the Silver Age. From reputation, though, I had high hopes for the EC horror comics, and I was not disappointed when I started collecting them. It helps that I'm a horror fan.
I was more surprised by how much I like the EC war/combat stories. I don't generally like war comics. I have nothing against the genre, it's just that I never found a captivating war series (aside from Ennis' efforts).
The other Golden Age surprise for me is World's Finest, with Sprang art. I normally can't stomach Golden Age superhero stories. But these are just entertaining enough that the art pushes them over the top into enjoyable.
Now if I ever find an enjoyable Golden Age western, that would be most shocking to me. The Western genre, in any medium, seems to foster boring stories (there are exceptions, of course).
Sandman didn't sound like it was for me, but I had to try it, and learned that it was indeed not for me. I never like the anthropomorphization of natural phenomena, and there was nothing in the comic to overcome that. I found it to be pretentious wankery.
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Post by Batflunkie on Sept 15, 2024 10:43:17 GMT -5
Probably Blue Monday Thought that it was a really cute slice of life book about "archie" inspired teens growing up in the 90's
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 15, 2024 21:05:16 GMT -5
I was never a war comics reader, other than a couple of Sgt. Rock annuals I bought for the Dan Spiegle art and a very occasional dip into DC's 70's war comics. When I finally read DC's Sgt. Rock Archives, I absolutely loved 'em, and later ate up the Unknown Soldier, Haunted Tank, and Losers Showcase volumes. I've since read the entirety of The Losers run, so DC's war comics are no longer outside my wheelhouse. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to duplicate my satisfaction with Marvel's Sgt. Fury, which I found to be agonizingly unreadable, the very worst example of Stan Lee over-writing. He seemed to need every character in ever panel to contribute at least a paragraph of "characterizing" dialog, resulting in an unbearably wordy slow-down of what were, by contrast to DC's war comics, dull and tamed stories. Encouraged by that experience with the DC war comics, though, I've intentionally ventured deep into a couple of categories outside my wheelhouse, and have documented the explorations here: Marvel Westerns and jungle comics. I've got the itch to find another unexplored region, but I'll tell you my first tentative foray into the long moribund genre of medical comics has been very disappointing... Sgt Fury had a couple of decent stories, under Roy Thomas; but, the best material was done by Gary Friedrich, when Dick Ayers and John Severin are the art team. Unknown Soldier was good stuff and I really liked Gerry Taloc's distinctive style, for whatever reason. It was a bit weird; but it suited the atmosphere that surrounded the character. Haunted Tank was at its best under Glanzman and his stories, with Will Franz, in Fightin' Army and Army War Heroes were good. Also his stories from Dell's Combat. Tom Sutton also did some good work for Charlton's war comic line, like Attack!, in the early 70s. Pat Boyette, too. Shotgun Harker and The Chicken was a fun read, in Fightin' Marines. For about a decade, now, I have had this idea stewing in my head of a maxi-series, with the classic DC war comics characters, taking them through the entire war, including Blackhawk, with a little tweaking, to make them a bit more realistic to the actual history. I would make them like the Polish, Dutch and Belgian squadrons, in the RAF, fighting the Battle of Britain, and carrying out special missions, in DeHavilland Mosquitos, doing things like the bombing attack on the Norwegian heavy water plants and the mission to free the Resistance fighters from Amiens Prison (Operation Jericho), and the propaganda bombing missions that knocked out the main radio transmitting tower in Berlin, during a speech by Goring, on the 10th Anniversary of the Nazis' rise to power. They attacked again and knocked it out a second time, during a speech by Goebbels. Ma'mselle Marie joining the Resistance, in the wake of the German victory, aiding Allied pilots to escape and carrying out sabotage missions, particularly in Normandy, when the OSS Jedburgh teams arrive, upon D-Day. Sgt Rock and Easy mirroring the 1st Infantry Division, in Operation Torch, in Italy, then at D-Day and on into Germany (following the basic flow seen in Samuel Fuller's The Big Red One). The Haunted Tank in Italy and Operation Dragoon (the invasion of southern France), The Losers in the South Pacific, as either Marine Raiders or Alamo Scouts, to keep them a special unit. Maybe have Gunner and Sarge as Marine Raiders, at Guadalcanal, then assigned to work with the Alamo Scouts, where Johnny Cloud is a code-talker and Captain Storm's PT Boat is used for landing and extracting them, on recon missions. The Unknown Soldier would be a cover for an OSS operative. Add some other characters to cover things like the British in North Africa, the fighting in Burma, etc. Maybe some cameos by the fathers of later heroes or characters, like Hal Jordan's father or Jonathan Kent.
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,860
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Post by shaxper on Sept 16, 2024 8:39:53 GMT -5
Outside of my wheelhouse IS my wheelhouse. Maybe my wildest one yet was the 1947 Wonder Book of Rubber, found in a dollar bin. Surprisingly great art, and actually pretty informative too. I was looking for irony, but yeah, I ended up enjoying it quite a bit!
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Post by rich on Sept 16, 2024 10:40:13 GMT -5
As an adult I've read almost all sorts of comics (bar stuff I have zero interest in, like romance). I wasn't sure how to respond. Then I realised DC comics outside of Batman and occasionally JLA are not my norm. I've rarely ever enjoyed any, but Superman for All Seasons was enjoyable! Orion by Simonson! How did I forget that! Proving I can enjoy wider DC universe books. 😎
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Post by mikelmidnight on Sept 16, 2024 11:10:58 GMT -5
My wheelhouse is pretty wide, having been reading undergrounds since I was probably too young meant that I was all ready for non-superhero comics when they came around. I suppose after some thought, the closest will be Bill Loebs' Journey. It's not quite a 'Western,' but it's close, and even most Western comics which I consider objectively well crafted usually fail to connect with me.
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Post by Yasotay on Sept 20, 2024 16:39:11 GMT -5
I admit to having a miniscule size wheelhouse. Basically, my only interest in comics are superhero books and of those, 90% of what I've read is Marvel. Other genres don't interest me as I read more for the writer than the artist and, frankly, the comics writing you find in genres like crime, war or sci-fi is simply not as good as you'd find from the better novelists in those genres. So I'd prefer to simply read such stories by novelists. But, for reasons I've written about at length elsewhere, I think superheroes are the one genre that are better suited to graphic novels than strictly textual novels. Besides which, there aren't a huge number of superhero text novels out there, anyway.
That being said, I have tried highly recommended non-superhero titles like Gaiman's Sandman and, while I thought it was relatively well done, it wasn't good enough to hold my interest given the genre doesn't grab me to begin with. But the one completely non-superhero related title that I have tried and which has been good enough to hold my interest, at least through the first 8 or 9 issues, is Lone Wolf and Cub. It's in translation so hard to say just how good the original writing really is but I enjoy the samurai genre and the comic is well done enough that it's kept my attention more than any non-superhero comic ever has.
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