shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Sept 16, 2024 10:03:52 GMT -5
If you grew up in the US in the 1980s, you knew it as Robotech, but if you grew up in virtually any other time and place, then you knew it as Macross and likely see Robotech as a bastardization of the original property. Normally, I'm a purist -- I like the original, untarnished version of things unless the modified version is clearly superior in some way. And yet, I do think Robotech is superior in certain key respects, even while it definitely has faults that were not there in the original, so I'm curious to know what other fans of either property think. And, to be clear, I'm comparing the ORIGINAL Macross to the ORIGINAL Robotech: The Macross Saga. Sequels, prequels, and alternate re-tellings are beside the point. |
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Post by supercat on Sept 16, 2024 12:11:49 GMT -5
This is one of those cases where I only know the US version. I grew up in the USA in the 80's with Robotech, and I picked up the A&E DVD set about 11 years ago. I became aware of original Macross along the way, but never had a chance to actually watch it unlike say Space Battleship Yamato versus Star Blazers (I like them both fairly equally now) or Gatchaman versus Battle of the Planets (Gatchaman all the way for me these days).
You definitely have my curiosity up on this, I just found a DVD for original Macross so no opinions yet, but thank you for posting the topic! I actually was just re-watching some of my existing Robotech discs because it was mentioned in the 80's cartoons thread, so the timing for a comparison is perfect.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Sept 16, 2024 18:15:48 GMT -5
You definitely have my curiosity up on this, I just found a DVD for original Macross so no opinions yet, but thank you for posting the topic! I actually was just re-watching some of my existing Robotech discs because it was mentioned in the 80's cartoons thread, so the timing for a comparison is perfect. Looking forward to reading your findings! |
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Post by Calidore on Sept 16, 2024 18:39:23 GMT -5
One of the things on the perpetual to-watch list is a side to side of Macross and Robotech, both of which I think I have (and maybe include the two other original Robotech sub-series if I can find them). Another to do is Speed Racer and Mach Go Go Go, which I do have complete. I'd also like to compare Voltron and the original lion and vehicle series.
I think Robotech and its originals would be the most interesting, though, because they were not only edited but also so heavily rewritten.
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jtrw2024
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Post by jtrw2024 on Sept 16, 2024 19:02:38 GMT -5
I remember when Robotech originally aired when I was a kid. I was never really in to it, but had plenty of friends who watched it. At the time, I didn't really like the anime style used by Robotech and other imported series, even though plenty of the American cartoons I watched outsourced their animation to the same studios. I eventually grew to appreciate the look and animation of shows like Robotech, but have never had the opportunity to watch either it or Macross. If someone asked me to pick one that I'd like to check out, I'd probably go with Robotech, based just on familiarity with the name and for nostalgia sake, even though I probably never even watched a full episode.
From the comments above it seems both of these versions are available on DVD (or at least were at some point). That's actually pretty cool. I know there are dubbed versions of some anime which I enjoyed watching in my youth that I would like to revisit, but it seems anytime one of them gets released it tends to be the original Japanese version, with sub-titles, or a new dub which is considered more faithful. It's a shame that some of these older dubs get buried, because I'm sure there are other fans like myself who do have a fondness for certain versions which first caught our interest, not to mention the sincere efforts of the people who worked on them.
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Post by Batflunkie on Sept 16, 2024 20:00:51 GMT -5
With how much Harmony Gold tinkered with Orguss and Mospeda (and Megazone-23 to a lesser extent) to retroactively tie it together to the much larger universe, I'd say that Robotech and Macross are only similar on the surface, much like how Saban paired Dairanger, and Kakuranger (and also had Toei shoot additional Zyuranger footage because there wasn't enough material to extend the lifecycle of MMPR, but that's beside the point) with Zyuranger in the further seasons of Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Sept 16, 2024 21:13:35 GMT -5
With how much Harmony Gold tinkered with Orguss and Mospeda (and Megazone-23 to a lesser extent) to retroactively tie it together to the much larger universe, I'd say that Robotech and Macross are only similar on the surface The first 36 episodes of Robotech are more similar to the original 36 episodes of Macross than they are not. There are definite differences, but it's closer to the source material than most imported anime of the era. Now, I would never dare say the same for Southern Cross and Mospeda, but having watched all of Robotech and much of Macross, I feel pretty confident in saying the differences are small, and yet important. Biggest problems with Macross: 1. It began as a parody of Mobile Suit Gundam, and so the characters are pretty extreme in their behaviors at first, especially Minmei and Roy. Robotech cuts a lot of this out. 2. The music just isn't as good as Robotech's, ESPECIALLY Minmei's song during the big climactic battle of the series. Biggest problems with Robotech: 1. Some of the revisions they make to the plots in order to better connect with the other two animes don't make any damn sense. 2. The music may be great, but it's VERY repetitive. 3. Obviously, some things had to be cut to satisfy American censors. Kids didn't really need to see Minmei showering nude, for example, but instances of blood being cut out in some circumstances really diminished the impact of certain scenes. As its the characters in this saga that matter to me more than the plot, I go with Robotech because it's more consistent in its treatment of them, but I see the merits of the original Macross as well. Many die-hards will tell you that the best thing to do is forget both and just watch the retelling, Macross: Do You Remember Love?, but I have a deep attachment to the original saga and would never be satisfied with a remake. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Sept 16, 2024 21:21:13 GMT -5
I remember when Robotech originally aired when I was a kid. I was never really in to it, but had plenty of friends who watched it. At the time, I didn't really like the anime style used by Robotech and other imported series, even though plenty of the American cartoons I watched outsourced their animation to the same studios. I eventually grew to appreciate the look and animation of shows like Robotech, but have never had the opportunity to watch either it or Macross.&n I didn't like the look of Robotech at first either, though I think it was less the Japanese style and more that terrible digital font they put over the animation in the opening credits which just felt wrong somehow. I didn't really get into it until college, but it sucked me in fast. My first ever binge-watch of a television series, I'd anxiously await the next disc's release, devour all six episodes in one sitting, watch them all two more times, and then wait for the next disc's release. Space + fighter jet combat + transformers + soap opera was an amazing combination, especially as the soap opera element was done so darn well. I really came to love (most of) these characters, and the American voice talents were so unforgettable too. Anyway, I highly recommend checking it out. It's simplistic by today's standards, both in terms of animation style and character/arc development, but it's rivetting all the same AND it's never afraid to throw you a massive curveball when things are starting to look too predictable. I don't think I ever would have predicted three out of the four most poignant deaths in the series, nor really ANYTHING about those last ten episodes. It's a brutally honest portrayal of war, and it's somehow damn fun at the same time. Figure that. And don't worry after the first few episodes: Rick and Minmei are hardly anyone's favorite characters. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 16, 2024 23:36:43 GMT -5
I only sampled it, while visiting my mother, after I got back from my summer midshipman training, before heading back to school. I liked most of what I saw, though some of the soap opera stuff kind of grated on me. Same for Voltron. Both were exciting series. From what I saw of them, I liked the Genesis Climber Mospeada section more than Macross or Southern Cross. It feels more desperate, like there are real stakes to their battles, vs the prettier stuff in the Macross and Southern Cross sections.
I only know the Robotech versions and only portions of those (not much of Southern Cross, actually, as I missed most of those episodes). I am aware of the original versions, but haven't viewed them in their original form.
Gatchaman and Battle of the Planets was more my world, with the Battle of the Planets version dominating, for decades, before the Rhino DVDs included the original episode versions and ADV Films gave us the whole series, including the ending. In between, I caught G-Force, Guardians of Space on Cartoon Network and hated the childish names, the migraine-inducing incidental music overdubs, and the voice work; but, the episodes were much closer to the Gatchaman originals and no 7-Zark-7 or the crappy US animation. I did miss the BOTP voice artists, though. I found I enjoy all of the versions, for different reasons.
Star Blazers is another where I have seen the American dub and edit, but the original Yamato movies. I'm fine either way, on those.
I had bought a few of the Robotech DVDs, starting with Macross, but only about a third of them. I didn't buy any of the Southern Cross/Robotech Masters run, but had most of Mospeada/New Generation. They occupied space with my Now Comics Speed Racer VHS tapes.
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Post by Marv-El on Sept 19, 2024 17:44:01 GMT -5
Heh, for years, I've read of Macross purists who loathe Robotech and curse the very name of Harmony Gold for their blocking of the anime franchise from US markets.
Myself, I'm a Robotech fan ever since the 80s. Though it took me some time to watch the entire series since for some odd reason, my local cable station at the time would only air it either early in the morning or just after lunch. Hardly conducive to a youngster having to attend school to watch it. Thank goodness for the invention of VCR.
I think Carl Macek's achievement shouldn't be understated. Taking three separate animes and melding them into one ongoing saga is amazing. Yes, as you've mentioned, some plot tweaks, shoves, and holes are going to appear in such a venture and over the years, I've spent quite some time on HG's Robotech forum boards arguing over such minutia, trying to make some sort of logical, linear sense of it all. It's all been in fun although here's a hint: the Narrator can be misleading at times with his info.
I've seen a chunk of the Macross sequels, IMHO Macross Plus is one of the finest animes ever produced. Frontier has a lot of homage elements from the original storyline yet oddly enough, I've never seen the original Macross not even DYRL. I guess in a similar vein in that I've never watched Southern Cross or Mospeada, the original animes that form Robotech go against my idea of the story. To me, Robotech is *my* story, my anime that I've become invested in and enjoy. In a backwards way, Macross Saga is the original and Macross and her sequels are the alternate timelines.
Amazon Prime used to have the original Macross though it's not longer available. Due to their recent business deal between HG and the original production company, Disney+ is supposed to get the bulk of the original Macross anime either later this year or next year. However that does not include the original Macross nor DYRL.
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Post by thuvaunu on Sept 25, 2024 23:47:16 GMT -5
Personally, I love them both in different ways. Macross has continued well past the 80's, and I love many of the later designs as much as I loved the first. Kawamori's mechanical design and Mikimoto's characters will always catch my eye; they are just beautiful. A lot of what my generation thinks of when they think of Robotech is essentially Macross - and ironically, a lot of what they struggled with was also from Macross. Heh, Minmei makes a lot more sense in the context of Japanese Idol culture and with an actual pop superstar behind the songs. Part of what makes Harmony Gold's misuse of the rights so painful is they could have been the hero of the story, but instead, they kept the original designers from continuing in America. However, what Robotech has (other than an amazing orchestral score) is immense unrealized potential. By blending three unrelated series and having so many unanswered questions, they can do almost anything if they are willing to step outside their comfort zones. I half hoped they would treat the Robotech Matrix as a kind of Loc-Nar from Heavy Metal and have it bouncing throughout time and space, gifting amazing technology and luring maniacal aliens. I mean, in their timeline, the SDF-1 crashed in 1999 - that was the future in the 80's, now it's the past. What if it crash landed in, say, the 1940's? Or did a brain boost on a group during the Renaissance? The fact that it's already had radically different generations and has been largely untouched for decades means a lot more can be done with it. In contrast, Macross has a very distinct continuity and structure (love triangles, music, and mecha) that it's expected to maintain. Granted, I'm biased; I've been tossing around alternate Robotech histories in my head for years - WWII Valkyries, anyone?  |
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