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Post by Hoosier X on Nov 26, 2014 16:35:19 GMT -5
Mohawk Storm did it for me.
I wasn't enjoying the book nearly as much as I had been, but Punk Storm was a signal that they were running out of ideas. I read sporadically to #200 or so and I never saw anything that made me think I had made a mistake.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 16:37:02 GMT -5
For me the moment the X-Men jumped the shark was the moment it went from being the X-Men to being the X-Universe, and that was 1982 with the dual publication of the New Mutants graphic novel and the Wolverine mini-series, which is ironic because they are both good stories in of themselves, the problem is they diluted the concept and the focus of the X-Men. When X-Men was a single book (not the core of a franchise) there was a singular vision guiding it, a singular story being told, and an inherit limit to the size and scale of the storytelling that prevented it from becoming a bloated mess.It was the story of the X-Men, a small group of misfits fighting the good fight in a world that feared them. With those two publications it became the story of a group of misfits fighting the good fight in a world that feared them and the story of the next generation training to take their spots and the story of a noble savage-the berserker with the heart of gold, and from there it kept adding ands to the story as a splash effect form the shark jump. Once it jumped and made the big splash, the ripples kept going outwards and the focus, the purity of the concept and the quality became diluted, more so over time as the ripple effect got bigger and bigger. But the actual shark jump was when the book stopped being a book and tried to become something else-a line, a franchise, a cash cow, or whatever Marvel tried to make it. There was no going back. Part of what made it what it was, was the fact it was a book where anything and more importantly everything happened. After 1982, everything didn't happen there. It was no longer one story being told, one concept, etc., etc. It was something different. (Some may argue better, but that doesn't invalidate it being different). -M As much as I see your point, this was, for me, the X-Men Golden Age. While the core title weakened at this point, New Mutants had a brilliant early run, and X-factor and Excalibur would ultimately attain heights of their own. I think the X-Universe became a pretty interesting place at this point, and continuity was generally pretty well watched (though there were certainly snafoos). But again, I'm asking less when things started to go bad and more "where's the point where there's nothing more worth reading?" In my own mind, there were stories I enjoyed as late as 1993. But see, that is the point, after that moment in 1982 anything worth reading was usually somewhere else in the X-line. The X-Men book itself had been the gold standard and was no longer so. The X-Universe may still have been interesting, but the X-Men themselves, what was happening in the X-Men comic itself and not in another periphery title, really wasn't what was worth reading in the X-line. There may be stuff worth reading after that, but it's not in the X-Men comic book. The X-line maybe, not the X-Men though. Sure there were X-stories, but were they X-Men stories in the X-Men? -M
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Post by fanboystranger on Nov 26, 2014 16:40:22 GMT -5
I'm re-reading X-Factor right now (which is what prompted this thread), and I'm actually really enjoying it. Bringing Jean back was a terrible idea, as was Madelyne Pryor, as was the Goblin Queen twist, but it's still good storytelling and character development, especially for Cyclops. The Layton/Guice issues of X-Factor weren't very good, but the Simonsons' run was great for a year and a half or so. It really had some momentum going for it from the Mutant Massacre. Plus, even when Walt wasn't doing the art, you'd have fill-ins by Mazzuchelli and Silvestri. After X-F 25, it slips quite a bit, but it was still a decent book, even with Inferno. Art Adams actually turns in a solid two-parter after Inferno. After that, it becomes very disappointing.
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Post by fanboystranger on Nov 26, 2014 16:44:10 GMT -5
Mohawk Storm did it for me. I wasn't enjoying the book nearly as much as I had been, but Punk Storm was a signal that they were running out of ideas. I read sporadically to #200 or so and I never saw anything that made me think I had made a mistake. Yeah, the Punk Storm arc should have been better than it was. It was a very interesting theme-- a mutant thoroughly in touch with nature completely loses her link with it. There were some great moments like the Barry Windsor-Smith "Lifedeath" issues and that issue where Storm climbs the mountain to confront Forge armed only with a knife, but all in all, kinda a wasted opportunity.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Nov 26, 2014 16:51:24 GMT -5
I'm with badwolf: the resurrection of Jean Grey and the subsequent creation of X-Factor was the turning point, for me anyway. Agreed with the utmost conviction!
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Nov 26, 2014 16:57:55 GMT -5
I'm with badwolf: the resurrection of Jean Grey and the subsequent creation of X-Factor was the turning point, for me anyway. Agreed with the utmost conviction! I concur.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 17:11:32 GMT -5
It's been so long since I read it, but I liked the late 80's X-Men a lot. From what I hear that's some of the worst stuff. Ten year old me didn't notice though. I think I liked the soap opera aspect but wasn't a fan of many other team books.
But I did notice things getting really weird right around the time the 1990 series started. Maybe it was just me getting old enough to notice when something was bad though.
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fuzzyblueelf
Full Member
People of Color doesn't mean Red Plastic
Posts: 124
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Post by fuzzyblueelf on Nov 26, 2014 17:28:14 GMT -5
O5 being in the present.
I can deal with Future X-men being in the present because they'll only change a future we won't see, the O5 are literally the original X-men of that Universe and don't seem to care about the consequences of them staying in the present, doesn't make me fond of them.
And in general when they decided to make Time Travel a common thing for X-men I did say that I don't mind the Future X-men but I still think it's ridiculous that we have so many time travel plots and they are all basically the same thing "The future is so screwed up we have to come back to change it by killing someone or preventing someone's death!"
You know what would be a unique X-men storyline? how about them fighting for Mutant rights for once.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 17:43:17 GMT -5
I AM SO SICK OF TIME TRAVEL.
AND UNIVERSE TRAVEL.
I cannot take it anymore. It's why I do not really read current books, and the ones I do read, have none of that garbage in it.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 17:44:16 GMT -5
Well, okay, universe travel is kind of neat. But they make time travel go with it which is just too much.
I should NOT be confused when reading a freaking comic book.
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fuzzyblueelf
Full Member
People of Color doesn't mean Red Plastic
Posts: 124
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Post by fuzzyblueelf on Nov 26, 2014 17:47:59 GMT -5
Alternate Universes and Alternate Timelines are interesting and all but a lot of the ones I'm interested in aren't visited or if they are it's not visited for long.
But they just rehash the time travel plots too much a lot of people joke about how DC merges it's Universes all the time, Marvel constantly time travels!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 17:49:18 GMT -5
I love nearly everything from Giant-Size X-Men #1 through the 1980's. Missed a good chunk of the 90's stuff but enjoyed the Age of Apocalypse.
1997-2005 is the big black void for me, as I wasn't reading comics during this time and missed pretty much everything to do with X-Men here.
I returned for the "Supernovas" arc beginning in X-Men #188 (2006) and through the whole Messiah Complex. Enjoyed the Hope Summers storyline, but I stopped reading new comics right around the time the X-Men moved to San Francisco. So I guess for me, it's the move to San Francisco.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 17:50:45 GMT -5
Blah, it lost its "interesting" a loooonnnngggggg time ago. I'm done.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Nov 26, 2014 17:52:58 GMT -5
The Roy Thomas/Werner Roth issues with the giant locusts.
(Seriously, apart from Banshee did anything from that era ever make a reappearance? Even when there were 417 different X-books? Sooooo bad.)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 17:54:17 GMT -5
The Roy Thomas/Werner Roth issues with the giant locusts. (Seriously, apart from Banshee did anything from that era ever make a reappearance? Even when there were 417 different X-books? Sooooo bad.) Wait. Oh no. When did this happen??? I love Roy Thomas. Do I even want to know? UGH. I feel I need a moment to prepare for a huge let down.
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