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Post by zaku on Mar 16, 2016 16:51:33 GMT -5
Or when Superman procured him several concussions? Hilarious!!!  |
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Post by chadwilliam on Mar 20, 2016 22:06:11 GMT -5
Though I feel that a certain amount of time was squandered on Superman during the Bronze Age, for me it's the last time Superman either worked or had a chance at working. Make no mistake, there are a lot of great stories peppered all through the 1971-86 era though it often felt as if the writers were just treading water or simply didn't know what to do with the character. The Miraculous Return of Jonathan Kent, Who Took the Super out of Superman, The Einstein Connection, Superman 400, Clark Kent having to rein in his growingly cold and distant alter-ego in the little known masterpiece that is DC Comics Presents 50, are just a handful of stories that we could never have once Crisis eliminated most of the ingredients which made Superman who he was. Who Took... for instance, couldn't be written within a continuity in which Superman and Clark didn't have distinctive personalities as they did once Byrne took over; The Miraculous Return... obviously wouldn't work with Ma and Pa still living in the new universe. Now, you can argue that these classics were exceptions to the rule if you wish, but to me, the Bronze Age was the last time all the pieces which made Superman special were still there.
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Post by realjla on Mar 21, 2016 2:06:40 GMT -5
This could just as easily be 'there, I said it', but Superman # 400 was, IMO, a disappointment. The pin-ups, featuring work by guys who rarely, or never, worked on the character before, were excellent. The short stories, such as they were, dwelt too much on Superman's place in future history, mostly as an abstract idea.
Elliot Maggin wrote that issue, which explains its overly 'cosmic' themes.
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Post by zaku on Mar 21, 2016 2:10:02 GMT -5
Though I feel that a certain amount of time was squandered on Superman during the Bronze Age, for me it's the last time Superman either worked or had a chance at working. Make no mistake, there are a lot of great stories peppered all through the 1971-86 era though it often felt as if the writers were just treading water or simply didn't know what to do with the character. The Miraculous Return of Jonathan Kent, Who Took the Super out of Superman, The Einstein Connection, Superman 400, Clark Kent having to rein in his growingly cold and distant alter-ego in the little known masterpiece that is DC Comics Presents 50, are just a handful of stories that we could never have once Crisis eliminated most of the ingredients which made Superman who he was. Who Took... for instance, couldn't be written within a continuity in which Superman and Clark didn't have distinctive personalities as they did once Byrne took over; The Miraculous Return... obviously wouldn't work with Ma and Pa still living in the new universe. Now, you can argue that these classics were exceptions to the rule if you wish, but to me, the Bronze Age was the last time all the pieces which made Superman special were still there. I don't argue that these stories are little jewels. But really, we're talking about the rare rays of sunlight scattered among litteraly hundreds and hundreds of stories. It's easy in hindsight to say that there were good stories, but try to put yourself in the shoes of a comic books reader of that time. You don't ever know if the next Superman or Action Comics issue will be a masterpiece or the same stale old wine. You have a finished amount of money. And really, in a time when they published Simonson's Thor, Miller's Daredevil, Claremont's X-Men or Wolfman's Teen Titans, why do you have to spend money to read about the (not) exciting triangle between Lois Lane, Lana Lang and Superman? |
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Post by realjla on Mar 21, 2016 15:42:14 GMT -5
Good points, zaku. You had to read a lot of 'mediocre at best' stories in SUPERMAN and ACTION to get a few good ones. One of the reasons I preferred DC COMICS PRESENTS to 'solo' Superman, besides the appeal of guest stars, was that DCCP had rotating writers and artists(and Maggin and Bates rarely contributed), so you didn't get the stale routine of 'On Page 5, Superman has to stop looking for Mongul so that Clark won't be late for work.'
One of these days, when I have more time, I'll do a 'series overview' of DCCP.
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Post by zaku on Mar 22, 2016 2:23:34 GMT -5
Good points, zaku. You had to read a lot of 'mediocre at best' stories in SUPERMAN and ACTION to get a few good ones. One of the reasons I preferred DC COMICS PRESENTS to 'solo' Superman, besides the appeal of guest stars, was that DCCP had rotating writers and artists(and Maggin and Bates rarely contributed), so you didn't get the stale routine of 'On Page 5, Superman has to stop looking for Mongul so that Clark won't be late for work.'Yep! And, really, Clark Kent an anchorman for the WGBS evening news??? "Uhmm.. I wonder why no one sees Superman between 8 and 9 pm EST... Well, that's the perfect time for a bank robbery!" I imagine Clark Kent that have to speak about the last celebrity nip slip scandal, while his super-hearing is catching the cries of pain of the victims of an earthquake. For what twisted in-universe reason he didn't resign?!? |
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Post by realjla on Mar 22, 2016 3:36:48 GMT -5
Well, eventually (as in, as soon as Denny O'Neil was off the books), the other writers(most often Bates) would come up with reasons, contrived and otherwise, to get Clark out of the picture(queasy stomach, heat vision bursting the studio lights, sometimes even having the villain attack the Galaxy Building just before or during the broadcast, and so on). And technically, the WGBS news was at 6 pm nightly...but bank robbers tended to wait til it was over, because everybody liked Clark!  (O'Neil had Clark as the GBS network anchorman at first, but then, he also moved the setting from Metropolis to New York with no explanation for one issue! Both of those were ignored immediately afterwards). |
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Post by zaku on Mar 22, 2016 6:08:18 GMT -5
Well, eventually (as in, as soon as Denny O'Neil was off the books), the other writers(most often Bates) would come up with reasons, contrived and otherwise, to get Clark out of the picture(queasy stomach, heat vision bursting the studio lights, sometimes even having the villain attack the Galaxy Building just before or during the broadcast, and so on). And technically, the WGBS news was at 6 pm nightly...but bank robbers tended to wait til it was over, because everybody liked Clark! (O'Neil had Clark as the GBS network anchorman at first, but then, he also moved the setting from Metropolis to New York with no explanation for one issue! Both of those were ignored immediately afterwards). I found this panel in the excellent Superman Through the Ages! site  He must be the first anchorman in history (fictional or otherwise) that was bullied to take his job. And it is my understanding that he was less than thrilled about his new position. And with the strings of accidents that were happening only when he was broadcasted, one wonders why his program was still on the air... One of these days, when I have more time, I'll do a 'series overview' of DCCP. Great idea! |
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Post by MDG on Mar 22, 2016 8:19:40 GMT -5
I found this panel in the excellent Superman Through the Ages! site He must be the first anchorman in history (fictional or otherwise) that was bullied to take his job. Probably the first one to where a yellow suit with a purple shirt too. |
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Post by zaku on Mar 22, 2016 9:23:30 GMT -5
I found this panel in the excellent Superman Through the Ages! site He must be the first anchorman in history (fictional or otherwise) that was bullied to take his job. Probably the first one to where a yellow suit with a purple shirt too.  But, joking aside, this a recolored panel. The original colors were a little less... vibrant..?  |
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Crimebuster
CCF Podcast Guru
Making comics!
Posts: 3,958 
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Post by Crimebuster on Feb 12, 2017 15:51:42 GMT -5
I'm sorry to have to announce that this review thread is permanently closed. I tried, I really did. But these comics were just so soul-crushingly boring that I couldn't face the prospect of reading any more of them, much less another 9 years worth of continuity. As a result, I have sold off most of my Superman collection, with the exception of Lois Lane, Supergirl, and Superman Family. On the plus side, this frees up a lot of space for me, and with the money I have bought a few odds and ends for my collection that may allow me to do new review threads instead.
But it turns out that Marty Pasko and Cary Bates were my kryptonite.
Sorry to everyone who was reading, and thanks for all the comments and interesting conversation over the past few years.
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,872
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Post by shaxper on Feb 12, 2017 22:08:57 GMT -5
Completely understandable. If you're not having fun, what's the point, right?
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 12, 2017 22:36:44 GMT -5
Understandable; but sad, personally. The Bronze Age Superman was mine and I find I still enjoy a great deal of it. Oh, not every story, certainly; but, far more than I hate. I still consider Elliot Maggin the best Superman writer of the bunch, in any age; but, his best work was in the novels, good as his comics were. Bates is a close second and Marv Wolfman did well with the character. As Shaxper says, if you aren't having fun, why bother?
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Post by comicsandwho on Feb 13, 2017 2:40:01 GMT -5
I don't blame you for burning out on Cary Bates, although Pasko wrote some good stuff before hr moved on to...well, not writing as many comics, I guess.
Elliot Maggin...yikes...too 'metaphysical' and 'wannabe Marvel pretentious.' And not forgetting Len Wein, who had an all-too-brief SUPERMAN stint in 1979.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Feb 13, 2017 9:55:47 GMT -5
Perhaps one of you guys that like the material more can pick it up at some point  |
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