Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jul 5, 2024 10:38:07 GMT -5
Ha! Nitzer Ebb?? Jeez, you must be angrier than I thought! That's some pretty intense stuff (good music though, from the little I've heard). My go-to industrial indie record of choice for moments of extreme political disatisfaction is Primal Scream's XTRMNTR. Give it a go; it's probably the most intense and relentlessly brutal record I own. But it's great. High-Functioning Flesh, REIN, Brighter Than A Thousand Suns, and Ultra Sunn are some of my favorite new-gen Industrial/EBM bands (High-Functioning Flesh unfortunately split a couple of years ago which made me kind of sad) Thanks for the recommendadtions. I'm not usually that into this kind of industrial-ectro or industrial alternative rock stuff, but I do like it a bit -- Nitzer Ebb I know because of their association with Depeche Mode (and I'm a BIG Depeche Mode fan). Nine Inch Nails kinda do this sort of stuff too and I've liked what little I've heard of them as well. But yeah, those four bands that you named I've not heard at all, so I'll give 'em a go.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jul 5, 2024 10:05:36 GMT -5
Confessor, I've been listening to Nitzer Ebb and drinking Mtn Dew for days trying to forget about it. I've been THAT upset about the decision Ha! Nitzer Ebb?? Jeez, you must be angrier than I thought! That's some pretty intense stuff (good music though, from the little I've heard). My go-to industrial indie record of choice for moments of extreme political disatisfaction is Primal Scream's XTRMNTR. Give it a go; it's probably the most intense and relentlessly brutal record I own. But it's great.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jul 5, 2024 9:56:20 GMT -5
I know we're supposed to talk politics here, but I'm just gonna say, "YEEESSSSSS!!! Thank f**k!" I, on the other hand, found it almost impossible to celebrate Independence Day three days after the Supreme Court essentially told us that we have a King. I know...it's really bad sh*t, isn't it? Utterly appalling. It actually beggars belief that the Supreme Court could be so partisan and, frankly, undemocratic un-American. It was truly a "shaking my head in my hands" moment for me. As someone who really loves America and Americans it's hard to witness the dismantling of one of the basic tenets of the Constitution like that. It's all very worrying. On a related note, I was showing your excellent Facebook post on the subject to a few folks in a bar yesterday (we were talking about the Supreme Court's decision) and my friends were really impressed with your eloquence. My wife said, "that's such a well written post, and you can absolutely feel the anger coming from him."
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jul 5, 2024 8:56:54 GMT -5
I know we're supposed to talk politics here, but I'm just gonna say, "YEEESSSSSS!!! Thank f**k!"
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jul 5, 2024 8:48:54 GMT -5
I think different writers have done different things for sure. At its core, it's a space opera(really Lucas wrote a western in space but it expanded out enough to be space opera).. but some other stuff drifts in now and then. I agree with this -- especially the elements of a Western that often get forgotten. But it was "Space Fantasy" that was the phrase that Lucas used a lot in early Star Wars literature and promo material back in the late 70s (Marvel referred to SW as "the greatest space fantasy of them all" in the splash pages of its comic). Even the official 1977 promo poster for Star Wars by Tom Jung, featuring a very muscular Luke Skywalker and a very "damsel-in-distress" Princess Leia, makes the film look like barbarian fantasy in space. To me, "space fantasy" is still a pretty good fit for what Star Wars is. Also, I generally HATE Kevin Anderson... but honestly I haven't read a thing he's wrote since he was first on the EU, so maybe its not as bad as I remember...we'll see. I'm glad you said that. I've always found Kevin J. Anderson to be a very poor author too. I'm really not a fan of his at all.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jul 4, 2024 18:27:46 GMT -5
I read Doomsday +1 #1 and Defenders #107-109. Doomsday +1 is known as an early Charlton work from John Byrne. Joe Gill writes the lead feature, and there's also a backup story written and drawn by Tom Sutton. My copy is a 1999 black and white reprint. Was the series always in black and white or was the original print run from the 1970s in color? The lead story from Gill & Byrne concerns a trio of astronauts (two women and a man: Jill Malden, Ikei Yashida, and Boyd Ellis) who fly out to space on the far future date of April 7, 1996. Unfortunately, a crazy dictator hatches a plot that leads to the world's nuclear powers unleashing their full arsenals on each other, apparently killing off humanity on Earth. Our astronaut trio has to return to Earth and figure out how to survive. At first, we've got a bizarre love triangle. But when melting from all the radiation melts some long frozen creatures from the Greenland ice, it become a love trapezoid as caveman Kuno take a liking to Jill. Byrne's art is already solid. It's his familiar style, although a few of the faces are wonky. I'm less enamored by the writing, as it seems on one hand to want to be gritty and realistic, but on the other hand throw lots of utter ridiculous stuff into the mix. Ikei looks and dresses very much like Arcade's assistant Miss Locke, which is a weird sartorial choice for an astronaut. It feels like a set-up for vamp versus good girl, but I'd need to read more to see how it shakes out. I used to have the first two or three issues of Doomsday +1 and, yes, it was in colour. I always found the story pretty lacklustre, but Byrne's art is pretty serviceable, though I think your description of it as "wonky" is spot on. There are glimpses of his future greatness, but he still had a long way to go. Ultimately, I decided to trade my issues of this series in at a comic shop and I can't say I've ever missed them.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jul 4, 2024 18:17:31 GMT -5
Agreed! Hopefully they'll have another big sale soon... though its not bad to buy stuff as it gets a US release (they seems to hit Diamond a couple months after release so I can pre-order new stuff from my LCS)... stuff like that is always fun! If you ever see that Rebellion are having a sale again, please free feel to let me know...there are plenty of their collections that I'm interested in.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jul 4, 2024 16:17:09 GMT -5
Tales of the Jedi #1 Cover dated : October 1993 Issue title : Ulic Qel-Droma and the Beast Wars of Anderon Script: Tom Veitch Pencils: Chris Gossett Inks: Mike Barriero Colors: Pamela Rambo Letters: Willie Schubert Cover art Dave Dorman Overall rating: 7 out of 10 The first thing to mention is that I'd forgotten that this mini-series was written by Tom Veitch. I guess that accounts for the amount of TotJ worldbuilding that we saw in Dark Empire. Anyway, yeah…that fact had completely slipped my mind, but then I guess I probably haven't read these comics since the late '90s. We start, as is often the case, with a training scene. There we meet the intrepid young Jedi in training Ulic Qel-Droma, along with his brother Cay and Tott Doneeta.. pupils of Master Arca. Ulic is taking on a training robot, and shows himself to be quite skilled but a bit brash and overconfident, and the robot ends up blasting him. As a little aside, I always thought that the training droid Ulic Qel-Droma is seen battling here had a somewhat similar design to FE-9Q from the early issues of Marvel's old Star Wars comic. I always figured that was a deliberate homage on Chris Gossett's part and quite a nice touch (though it may not have been deliberate, of course). Here's FE-9Q, with her owner Jim the Starkiller Kid, for comparison… After a quick lesson Master Arca tells his students about the planet Onderon...where, due to scary dragon-like beasts that migrated from the moon, the people developed in a walled city... tossing criminals out to die. Shades of Mega City One from Judge Dredd, where they exiled their worst criminals and mutants to the Cursed Earth. The Jedi help fight them off, but not before the Princess is kidnapped! Having the Princess kidnapped and having the trio of young heroes attempt to rescue her is reminiscent of elements of Star Wars – Episode IV: A New Hope. I find this to be a pefectly passable, if unremarkable start to the story. About 1/3 of the story is an info dump, but it's not a terrible one… I agree, except to say that this issue does have me hooked enough to want to read the next one. I remember pretty much nothing of the plot of this mini-series, so it's going to be interesting re-reading along with your reviews. I was never terribly impressed with TofJ at the time, I must say – hence why I haven't re-read this since the late '90s – but I actually enjoyed re-reading this first instalment way more than I was expecting to. It's better than I remembered it, even if it's not exactly blowing me away either. Ulic is just the sort of character people like to root for and no one is ever surprised about when he turns evil, which is fine but a bit telegraphed.... even the first time I read the story it was clear things weren't going to go well for him. Cay is the tech geek of the team, and Tott seems to exist solely so they could point on the Onderonians don't like aliens.. hopefully he'll not just be wallpaper (though since I totally forget he exists he might not do much). A serious criticism of this first issue would be that so much of it was an 'info dump' and was concerned with establishing the story, that there was barely any time to get into characterisation of the three young Jedi. Cay Qel-Droma and Tott Doneeta seem utterly characterless at this early stage, other than Doneeta is a bit grumpy and Cay is more cautious that his brother. As for Ulic – Hey, man…spoilers!! – I don't remember him turning evil! That doesn't happen in this mini-series or The Freedon Nadd Uprising, right? I guess this must happen in a later story arc. If I'm wrong about that, then I'd forgotten more than I thought about these first couple of TotJ mini-series. …and a 'Dark Lords of the Sith' series will follow this one. I thought The Freedon Nadd Uprising came after this first mini-series??? With Dark Lords of the Sith being the third story. It nice to have normal coloring again.. this art isn't as good as Kennedy, but it's decent and certainly doesn't detract from the story. On balance, I agree that the art isn't as good as Cam Kennedy's, but Gossett's artwork has a slightly '90s indie comic aesthetic to it, which I really like. It's also quite nicely detailed and is easy to follow panel-to-panel. It's pretty good stuff, overall. It's more traditional comic book art than Kennedy's, as you say, and Pamela Rambo's colouring is much more realistic and less stylised too. On a related matter, I always thought that the young Jedi's ship, the Nebulon Ranger, had a really cool, but rather unorthodox ship design. I like that the ships here don't look like the ones we'd seen during the era of the Empire. This timeline ('Millenia ago' in the comic, but sometime there must be a specific reference to 4000 years ago, as that seems to be what most sources quote) seems very different from the High Republic one, which makes the Jedi Order feel much younger and the Galaxy much smaller. I know we've talked about that before in talking about the TV shows, but here is a great example of how to NOT make the galaxy seem small.. this is a new, previously unexplored bit of the galaxy with a rich history we are about to learn about. I agree wholeheartedly. I think the thing I liked best about the whole Tales of the Jedi setting is that it was the first Star Wars comic to not have been tied to the Star Wars films and their central characters. It opened up a lot of story possibilities. Back when I first read this mini-series in 1993, it felt simultaneously liberating and intriguingly exotic in the way it introduced us to a slew of new characters from a time period many thousands of years before the original trilogy. That said, the unfamiliar setting has its drawbacks, and I can vividly recall wishing that this series had instead been set just prior to the rise of the Empire and had focused on Obi-Wan and Anakin et al. I'm sure Lucasfilm would've torpedoed that idea if it had ever been proposed, but those were my thoughts at the time.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jul 4, 2024 5:04:32 GMT -5
I'm curious about that Peter Parker Spectacular Spider-Man #58 - specifically the Ringer, a villain I remember seeing only once, in I think the David Kraft run of the Defenders? Anyway, my memory says he was an unusual character in that he was given a kind of self-conscious socio-political motivation that you never saw too often in superhero comics, spouting anti-capitalist rhetoric, that kind of thing. Of course it was all over-simplified and he was made to sound pompously self-righteous and misguided, but at least there was some acknowledgment that ideas of this kind existed. Am I recalling all this accurately? I haven't read that Defenders comic since the 70s, when it came out. Anyway, assuming I'm remembering this right and not mixing him up with some other minor villain, I'm curious whether they kept this aspect of his personality going in this or any other later appearances, or if they dropped it altogether. I plan to read this issue later today, so I'll let you know. I'm not sure I've ever read a comic with the Ringer in it before. I see from the credits this PP #58 was written by Roger Stern. And drawn by John Byrne and inked by Vince Colletta, a combination I don't think I recall seeing anywhere else - how does the artwork look? I flipped through the comic when I got it and I too raised an eyebrow when I saw it was Byrne inked by Colletta. It doesn't look too bad at all, though it did immediately remind me of the art in Star Wars #64, which has art by Joe Brozowski inked by Colletta. The line work is a little bit basic, with fairly heavy lines, but Colletta seems to have taken a lot of trouble to ink some fairly detailed backgrounds in many panels (which, as we know, wasn't always the case with him). It's not unattractive artwork at all to my eyes.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jul 3, 2024 6:36:41 GMT -5
Edited to add: 'pretty cheap' is apparently a relative term - 8 bucks (6 quid!) for a single issue is pretty spendy for me. Actually, that's an old price sticker from a previous time the comic was sold. I only paid £4 for that issue of PP:TSSM, £5 for the Detective Comics, and £2 for the Spider-Man: The Final Adventure. Those are pretty reasonable prices here in the UK, where we tend to get hammered for old American comics. When I look at what back issues are going for in the States on eBay, it's clear that we are getting way over charged in Britain. Time was that I used to order fairly often from Mile High or Lone Star, because it worked out cheaper than buying from UK-based sellers. But a combination of the pound weakening against the dollar and huge increases in shipping from the U.S. means that it's no longer worthwhile.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jul 3, 2024 1:26:32 GMT -5
Bought three comics from off my 'wants list' pretty cheap...
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Post by Confessor on Jul 3, 2024 0:09:28 GMT -5
Really poor month for me in June -- a measly six comics read. Must try harder this month.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jul 1, 2024 11:26:04 GMT -5
I'm sorry, I just don't see those "pings" as coming from the cane: they look to be coming from Matt's body. As for not carrying his cane out in front of him, as blind folk do, that's surely to reinforce the idea to the reader that he doesn't need the cane because of his radar sense. I don't know….maybe you're right, but I just don't see any evidence of that being an electronic gizmo in the cane when Everett drew it. We know that Stan came up with Daredevil's radar sense in the brainstorming session with Everett prior to work commencing on Daredevil #1 because he said so in interviews. Now, you might say, "well, Stan was probably lying", but that is to automatically assume that Lee is the bad guy. Discounting everything that Lee said in interviews is not a neutral position from which to posit an alternate, revisionist theory from. And that's the thing: everything you've said above in defence of your theory above could just as easily be flipped on its head and read in an exactly opposite way. I think you're seeing what you want to see because you are down on Stan Lee. It's classic confirmation bias. Furthermore, your theory – along with many comments in this thread -- is based on the supposition that the artists were always right or that they can make no errors. It also supposes that they never lied or misremembered facts, whereas the truth is that the likes of Steve Ditko, Wally Wood and Jack Kirby either had a motive for downplaying Lee's participation years after the fact, were slightly weird themselves, or had addictions that clouded their memory and affected their mental health. Not that I entirely disbelieve them, of course; Stan did take a lot of credit for stuff he didn't do, that's pretty much an unassailable fact at this point. But, I think we must accept that the artists themselves were not infallible and may have sometimes misunderstood elements of the plot Lee had given them. Or maybe they had just screwed up the artwork on occasion? These were not machines; these were very talented human beings working in a pressured environment, with a lot of comic books to churn out month after month. Well, as a further argument towards my interpretation of the cane-maneuvering scene, I will note that "ping" itself is onomatopoeia, a word derived from the sound it represents. Everett was depicting sound being reflected back at him, a sound we associate with sonar, not radar. I will further note that electronic echolocation aids for the blind had long been proposed; consider these closing panels from a Dr. Mid-Nite story written and penciled in 1948, published with new inks by Sal Amendola in ADVENTURE COMICS #418, 1972: Once the radar-sense concept is cemented in the premise, it's depicted with silent waves emanating from Daredevil's head, not sounds bouncing off of obstructions. One could argue that Everett (and Joe Orlando after him) just didn't think of that way of illustrating the idea, and that was the only way he could come up with conveying it. I think my explanation is more convincing, once you divorce yourself from the biases of assuming that the artist had been provided the radar-sense premise, and consider the possibility that he was coming up with a way to explain how Daredevil could navigate pretty much on his own. Yes, the artists were fallible, but I find it very unlikely that if Bill Everett were instructed to draw a collision between a van and pedestrians that resulted in a cylinder of radioactive goo bursting in one of the pedestrian's faces that he would have drawn a closed van with no obvious means of its contents reaching the front of the van in the event of a crash, and that he would have chosen not to draw the freaking cylinder at all! The only explanation I find convincing is that didn't have any instruction that this element was supposed to be in the story when he drew it. Now this could be because Stan hadn't thought of it when he provided the plot, or it could have been because Bill was coming up with his own origin story that was later tweaked in the scripting. But I think the confirmation bias is working the other direction, and that gets right to the point I was trying to make: when we go in with the assumption that Stan provided the detailed plot, we are biased to overlook evidence that certain aspects were not initially in the mix. As for Stan's interview, I am absolutely not trying to make him the bad guy or insinuating that he was lying. By all accounts, the development of DAREDEVIL #1 was a messy effort, and after the accumulation of years of lore, it's perfectly understandable that Stan would not recollect at which point the idea of radar-sense got injected into that lore. If he came up with that angle while scripting the pages, it's no sign of duplicitousness to later misremember it as having been there at the conception. The real starting point would be, in retrospect, the time of publication, and from that perspective, the radar-sense was inarguably there "from the beginning." We know that neither Stan nor many of his prominent co-creators dwelt much on the "sausage-making" in later recollections, with Stan, in particular, very invested in Hollywood-style "mythic tales" which would resonate with his audience rather than the less-interesting real world production process. Consider FANTASTIC FOUR #1, which is quite clearly a Frankenstein merger of the FF origin with an inventory monster short that was heavily chopped up, re-scripted, and highly altered with art revisions and crude non-Kirby art inserts. Neither Stan nor Jack ever appear to have recalled or at least acknowledged that. Instead, they remembered the concept as it eventually saw print, not the construction details. If they didn't recall or at least discuss the remarkable and certainly difficult and complex details behind the production of one of Marvel's two flagship titles, why would we expect Stan to remember a much more mundane detail about when a certain concept found its way into the first issue of one of the company's lower-tier heroes? I don't necessarily agree with every point you're making, but I appreciate your well written response. Definitely food for thought.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jul 1, 2024 9:19:06 GMT -5
Why does it matter what Jack said? Why is it that every time Stan, or someone related to him, says something it's a lie, but if Jack says it then it's gospel? Exacty! And now it's apparently Flo Steinberg who is incorrect or is an unreliable witness too. I've said it before in this thread and I'll say it again: if your default position is to treat everything Stan Lee said as a lie and everything the artists said as truth, then that's not a neutral position from which to posit an alternate, revisionist theory from. It's just classic confirmation bias.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jul 1, 2024 7:34:24 GMT -5
I would like to see the link to Stan having hours long sessions with Kirby and Ditko over issues of FF and Spider-Man. Flo Steinberg's recollections about these collaborative brainstorming plot sessions between Stan Lee and Jack Kirby don't specifically mention that they were hours long. However, it's clear from her comments that they were not short meetings because of how involved the pair got in them – Stan and Jack acting the scenes out, Stan sometimes jumping on chairs or tables, the pair of them making so much noise when they got excited over a particular plot that they became a pest to Steinberg, who was trying to answer the phones. That doesn't sound like they were short, couple-of-minutes meetings to me. Anyway, here are three of Steinberg's quotes on the subject with sources… "Jack would come in and sit around and talk; then he’d go into Stan’s office and they’d go over plots, make sound effect noises, run around, work things out. Then he’d go back home to work some more." – Flo Steinberg interview, The Jack Kirby Collector #18, January 1998. "I saw them [Jack and Stan] working very closely and creatively together on all this great stuff, the Hulk, FF and Thor. I don’t know who actually created what – I wasn’t privy to that." – Flo Steinberg interview, Comics Interview #17, November 1984. "When an artist would come in and they would be working on the plot together, they would act it out and Stan would jump on the desk and run around on the desk and act the part of the superhero. They would brainstorm and there would be all this noise. Sometimes if I were on the phone, I had to yell in there 'keep it down, keep it down!'." – Flo Steinberg interview from the A&E Stan Lee: ComiX-Man documentary, 1995.
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